Here is a teaser - Will be able to run the two forward AC unit all night. And will be the last batteries the boat will ever need. And the engines do not start using batteries.. Intrigued?
500/520 DB official thread
- Thread starter Havana Shamrock
- Start date
Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
Sounds awesome, then I looked up how much Lithium Ion batteries are. $2,999 for one 8D equivalent. That’s a lot of fuel and maintence on the generator
Ah but you don't yet know the complete story - The Li batteries end up being more economical; it's all the other stuff that needs to be done that sums up the cost.
What if I told you that a 100 AH lithium battery has about the same useable capacity as a 200 AH lead acid; you would need about half the battery to do the same job right?
What if a lithium battery is good for 8000 discharge cycles? Lead acid if you took really good care are worth about 1000 cycles. 8000 cycles is 15+ years.
What if a lithium battery weighing 30 pounds has the same electrical storage capability as an 8D (156 pounds)?
Starting to look better and better right?
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Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
I am curious, how come the 100AH lithium has the same capacity as the 200AH lead acid? I though the whole point of the AH was to rate capacity.
So if you read above a 200 AH lead acid battery has only a maximum of 100 AH useable; below that the battery becomes irreparably damaged (that's that 11.8 volt threshold). A 200 AH Lithium battery has 180 AH useable or more.
j98052
Active Member
My 520 was setup the same - 2 8Ds. We use our boats differently in the PNW, for example, we don't really need AC all that much in the summer, so we don't run the generator all the time (and in some anchorages, you get seriously hazed if you run it past 10pm). We rarely anchor in the winter, given how cold it gets.
My goal was just to ensure that we could go about 10-12 hours (from after dinner to wake up time in the morning) without running the 8Ds below 50%. I did some calculations on load, largely the 3 refrigerators and 1 freezer.
I got quotes on adding house batteries, but given cost, weight, and loss of space in the lazarette, I had another pair of 8Ds installed (just behind the blackwater tank), as well as a dedicated battery for the generator (if you can start the generator, you can always charge the batteries).
I also asked for quotes on separating out house and starting batteries, but 2 different electricians told me it would be fairly expensive, needing to rewire the alternators.
My goal was just to ensure that we could go about 10-12 hours (from after dinner to wake up time in the morning) without running the 8Ds below 50%. I did some calculations on load, largely the 3 refrigerators and 1 freezer.
I got quotes on adding house batteries, but given cost, weight, and loss of space in the lazarette, I had another pair of 8Ds installed (just behind the blackwater tank), as well as a dedicated battery for the generator (if you can start the generator, you can always charge the batteries).
I also asked for quotes on separating out house and starting batteries, but 2 different electricians told me it would be fairly expensive, needing to rewire the alternators.
Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
The 2 new 8Ds you had added, are they just wired in parallel to the existing 2 8D batteries so run off the same main power switches in the salon?
j98052
Active Member
Yes, so we now have 2 batteries on each bank, doubling the amp hours. All 4 are Lifeline AGMs. A shop in Seattle installed them, and made a stainless steel rack that houses the battery box, and the cables run across the top of the lazarette. It almost looks factory.
Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
I
I am going to defiantly add the separate generator battery this spring. Then use the boat for a while and see how it goes before I change too much. I may fine myself needing AC and running the genny more than I thought.
I was thinking about doing the same but making a rack to store the 2 new batteries directly on top of the original batteries. I haven’t measured it yet but I think it will fit.
I am going to defiantly add the separate generator battery this spring. Then use the boat for a while and see how it goes before I change too much. I may fine myself needing AC and running the genny more than I thought.
j98052
Active Member
I considered stacking them, but was advised that it would be beneficial to put the 2nd bank on the starboard side, to balance out the weight. Also, accessing the battery charger would be impossible if they were all stacked. And the space aft of the blackwater tank is kind of dead space.
The generator battery was a no brainer - $250 installed, wired to the 3rd leg of the battery charger, with a group 27 AGM.
The generator battery was a no brainer - $250 installed, wired to the 3rd leg of the battery charger, with a group 27 AGM.
Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
Access to the charger makes sense to think about. I will check out the space behind the holding tank. Thanks for the info.
Jeremy we added everything to run the entire boat except the AC units.it is a good way to manage our power
Greg was looking into a 110vac AC unit for his stateroom that could be handled by the inverter
Also we never run the ac during the day were outside ,swimming etc.
So the generator will only run at night.
Techmitch, I agree we will need the AC down south later this year but that’s still only 1/2 the year then 1/2 up north
It’s not a perfect solution but it’s damn good for us.
Greg was looking into a 110vac AC unit for his stateroom that could be handled by the inverter
Also we never run the ac during the day were outside ,swimming etc.
So the generator will only run at night.
Techmitch, I agree we will need the AC down south later this year but that’s still only 1/2 the year then 1/2 up north
It’s not a perfect solution but it’s damn good for us.
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Man I like this thread..real boat talk with the right people. Reinvent one of the best boats Sea Ray ever built..you go boys!
Do you guys see who's rapping here, Seattle, Cape Cod, Long Island and Florida.....you guys reckon ya got the territory covered? Love to sit around a table with you dudes and Mr. Daniels, it would be a late nighter!
Capt. R
Do you guys see who's rapping here, Seattle, Cape Cod, Long Island and Florida.....you guys reckon ya got the territory covered? Love to sit around a table with you dudes and Mr. Daniels, it would be a late nighter!
Capt. R
techmitch
Well-Known Member
- May 1, 2008
- 8,384
- Boat Info
- 1999 270 DA
- Engines
- Twin 4.3s W/Alpa I Gen II's
"if it burns, it turns" Ain't that the truth. Greetings Captain.
We'd need a pub with a lot of napkins for that three beer engineering..
Miss ya brother; let me know when you are back in town.
Heading to the islands tomorrow...maybe. It's out of the east 10-15 gusting 20, 3-4 with 5 second intervals....trying to convince owner this may be a good time to see Key West...stay in Hawks to Marathon, then the wind will be on my backside as I turn west......and debauchery here I come!
R
R
cod
Active Member
Ttmott,
I'm definitely intruiged. I'm impressed that you will be able to run not one but the two forward ac's all night. I'm curious to where you plan on putting the bank of 8 batteries?
I'm definitely intruiged. I'm impressed that you will be able to run not one but the two forward ac's all night. I'm curious to where you plan on putting the bank of 8 batteries?
The plan right now is the lithium batteries will be located under the gunnel behind the saloon port settee tight against the aft AC unit and port hull. 31 pounds each. These are the batteries currently specified https://battlebornbatteries.com/shop/100ah-12v-gc2-lifepo4-deep-cycle-battery/
8 LI batteries is baseline; they are taking systems load measurements on boat now; may grow to 10 for additional margin, we'll see. Also they are looking at the deck behind the settee for carrying the weight; not expecting issues but that will determine the structural in the battery box design. There are specific requirements for battery securing in ABYC and we are following to the tee. The current two 8D's are 312 pounds and 8 LI's are 248 pounds so there will be no weight distribution issues.
In the engine room will only be the Generator start battery and bow thruster batteries.
Engine starting batteries no longer required; will be using Maxwell starting modules. Starting modules recharged with 20amp circuit from LI batteries.
The two Victron inverter/chargers will be located (we hope) under the saloon breaker panel aft and to the starboard side of the aft AC unit (behind the Bose Acoustimass subwoofer); very close to the LI battery bank but better centered in the boat. They will be programmed to run in split phase so the 220VAC equipment can be operated.
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Jeremygavin
Well-Known Member
- Mar 6, 2012
- 2,054
- Boat Info
- 2011 520 Sedan Bridge
2016 Sea Ray 19 SPX OB
2019 Walker Bay Generation 340
- Engines
- Cummins QSM11s
Mercury 150 Fourstroke
Honda 40hp
Very interesting. Keep us updated if you don’t mind. I will Be following. Why not put the battery bank in the current location of the 8Ds?
Lithium battery life is dependent upon their temperature environment. Charging and discharging need to be within 25 Deg F and 135 Deg F with optimum charge and discharge rates in a narrower range. Locating them in the saloon area makes best use of their capability due to the tighter temperature control. Also, for the most part this is unused space in the boat and as the batteries will never require service for a life cycle of at least 15 years it's perfect and also opens up quite a bit of useable space in the lazaratte.
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