460 DA Owners Thread
- Thread starter Russ Calasant
- Start date
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
During my extensive investigation of the 450 and it's successor, the 460 I learned that the 460 did in fact run somewhat bow high in comparison, and that tabs/chain rode were important.
Interestingly, when I upgraded the windlass from the LOFRANS Leopard to the GOOD, replacing nearly 200' chain with rode I believe my performance level increased, but at the time didn't have the Floscans hooked up yet.
Was it the weight or the placement of the weight, who knows.
Just sharing an observation.
If I had the460 i'd likely want to keep the chain...
Seems like there's lots more 460's out there than 450's
BEST !
RWS
Interestingly, when I upgraded the windlass from the LOFRANS Leopard to the GOOD, replacing nearly 200' chain with rode I believe my performance level increased, but at the time didn't have the Floscans hooked up yet.
Was it the weight or the placement of the weight, who knows.
Just sharing an observation.
If I had the460 i'd likely want to keep the chain...
Seems like there's lots more 460's out there than 450's
BEST !
RWS
Blown284
Well-Known Member
did you just get chain from west marine? G4?
I can always just replace all the chain I have and move to 300+ foot. However, I’m hesitant to mess with it until having a better understanding on weight distribution. I guess I could always just leave the dinghy behind (it’s approx 300 lbs) hanging on the swim platform and that would make a difference.
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
I should also mention, last year after finding a severe electrolysis issue due to stray current at the dock, I had to replace the BENNETT tabs.
The replacement tabs are direct bolt ins, however the running surface is actually 2" longer, providing for more lift than the factory originals.
Can't say for sure, but this may be one of the reasons I'm getting such amazing (to me) fuel economies, with the best numbers being between 2200-2400 RPM (3126 Cats here, 2400 is max continuous rated RPM)
I did some experimentation with tabs on my previous boat and found that extending them and adding dropfins made a tremendous difference in her running attitude AND fuel economy.
I'd bet these longer tabs would make a difference with the 460's series as well.
BEST !
RWS
The replacement tabs are direct bolt ins, however the running surface is actually 2" longer, providing for more lift than the factory originals.
Can't say for sure, but this may be one of the reasons I'm getting such amazing (to me) fuel economies, with the best numbers being between 2200-2400 RPM (3126 Cats here, 2400 is max continuous rated RPM)
I did some experimentation with tabs on my previous boat and found that extending them and adding dropfins made a tremendous difference in her running attitude AND fuel economy.
I'd bet these longer tabs would make a difference with the 460's series as well.
BEST !
RWS
Blown284
Well-Known Member
What tabs did you replace the originals with, specifically?
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
This occurred in April, 2022 with the boat on the hard.
Quite by accident I saw light between the stbd tab and the hinge. The time of day, angle of the sun showed a good bit of sunlight streaming through, mostly hidden by the hinge itself.
At the time , no 30x9 tab was available ON THE PLANET, including Sea Ray, Bennett, West marine, Defender, Amazon and every on-line marine retailer known to man.
So I did a replay of what I did with the Trojan, began looking deeper tab, with or without drop fins and settled on a 30x12 with the actuator plate in the same spot. It’s a direct bolt-in for the 1996-1999 450 DA. Don't know about any other applications.
Found one in Longbeach CA and one PAIR in Raleigh, NC. THE FIT IS PERFECT, except we needed to drill 4 new holes to accommodate the dual actuators.
Other than those holes, it's a bolt in installation.
Will look for some photos and post shortly if possible.
BEST !
RWS
Quite by accident I saw light between the stbd tab and the hinge. The time of day, angle of the sun showed a good bit of sunlight streaming through, mostly hidden by the hinge itself.
At the time , no 30x9 tab was available ON THE PLANET, including Sea Ray, Bennett, West marine, Defender, Amazon and every on-line marine retailer known to man.
So I did a replay of what I did with the Trojan, began looking deeper tab, with or without drop fins and settled on a 30x12 with the actuator plate in the same spot. It’s a direct bolt-in for the 1996-1999 450 DA. Don't know about any other applications.
Found one in Longbeach CA and one PAIR in Raleigh, NC. THE FIT IS PERFECT, except we needed to drill 4 new holes to accommodate the dual actuators.
Other than those holes, it's a bolt in installation.
Will look for some photos and post shortly if possible.
BEST !
RWS
- Aug 20, 2021
- 1,313
- Boat Info
- Started out as MAYBE A DANCER
Became a Dancer - 12/23/21
- Engines
- 450 DA Sundancer running CAT 3126
Tab photos below
I later drilled a hole in each to substitute the R3H round, flat zinc instead of the lil zincs shown.
Hope this helps. . . .
BEST !
RWS
I later drilled a hole in each to substitute the R3H round, flat zinc instead of the lil zincs shown.
Hope this helps. . . .
BEST !
RWS
Joint Custody
Well-Known Member
Looks great
I cant remember where I did and it is the one invoice I don't have in my file. It is 5/16
Blown284
Well-Known Member
Roger that. thank you so much for the help. Truly appreciated
lslavick
Member
That looks nice! Did you make your own template? Or did they already have one?
Blown284
Well-Known Member
Thank you! They used a laser car thing to template and do it. I get no credit other than paying the bill and enjoying the new look.
Captain Brian
Active Member
- Jan 5, 2013
- 127
- Boat Info
- 460 Sundancer 2001
"The BEECH HOUSE"
- Engines
- 6 CTA Cummins 450 HP with Vdrives, 10.0kw Westerbeke Gennie
Hey guys, great info here, I just picked up a new to me 2001 460 with the Cummins 8.3 6CTA engines, looking for info on what the part numbers for the filters, fuel, water, oil, that are on the engine. I have replacement Raycors but would like more info on the engine mounted filters.
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks
Blown284
Well-Known Member
See this forum. It has all the 6CTA info you could ever want or need: http://www.clubsearay.com/index.php?threads/official-cummins-6cta-450c-thread.77886/
Captain Brian
Active Member
- Jan 5, 2013
- 127
- Boat Info
- 460 Sundancer 2001
"The BEECH HOUSE"
- Engines
- 6 CTA Cummins 450 HP with Vdrives, 10.0kw Westerbeke Gennie
WOW! Thanks!
Blown284
Well-Known Member
you're very welcome.
Blown284
Well-Known Member
Just figured I'd update everyone on my "Missing MPH" saga in hopes that it might help someone else.
Took the boat to have it short hauled out. Very minimal goop on the bottom. However, the goop was pretty limited to the trim tabs the stern and a few small areas on the drive shafts nearing the props.
After getting her hauled out, I also went ahead and changed all of the RACOR filters since it was time anyway. Both engine RACORS and the generator.
Today on the way home I had opposing winds and achieved 2680RPM whereas previously before pulling out I achieved 2430rpm. Apparently the 250rpm was due to bottom fouling and/or a dirty RACOR filter. Yes, even just a LITTLE BIT of muck on the bottom. Wild.
Cruising at 2200 now gets me right at 20mph. I'm happy with that. 2250rpm was right around 21.8mph (currents/wind not in my favor) and if it was, I have no doubt I would be a little over 22mph.
Seems inline with most of the other boats here.
MORALE of the story: Have the boat pulled even if you BELIEVE the bottom is clean, looks clean because there might be something under there even the slightest that can be slowing you down. Also, make sure to double check and triple check your fuel system, filters, etc.
Took the boat to have it short hauled out. Very minimal goop on the bottom. However, the goop was pretty limited to the trim tabs the stern and a few small areas on the drive shafts nearing the props.
After getting her hauled out, I also went ahead and changed all of the RACOR filters since it was time anyway. Both engine RACORS and the generator.
Today on the way home I had opposing winds and achieved 2680RPM whereas previously before pulling out I achieved 2430rpm. Apparently the 250rpm was due to bottom fouling and/or a dirty RACOR filter. Yes, even just a LITTLE BIT of muck on the bottom. Wild.
Cruising at 2200 now gets me right at 20mph. I'm happy with that. 2250rpm was right around 21.8mph (currents/wind not in my favor) and if it was, I have no doubt I would be a little over 22mph.
Seems inline with most of the other boats here.
MORALE of the story: Have the boat pulled even if you BELIEVE the bottom is clean, looks clean because there might be something under there even the slightest that can be slowing you down. Also, make sure to double check and triple check your fuel system, filters, etc.
Interesting. But maybe your Racor filters had something to do with the performance and they needed changing? Are you running 10 or 30 micron?
Your performance is now similar to our 460.
Your performance is now similar to our 460.
Blown284
Well-Known Member
Before changing the RACOR filters, I could achieve 2430rpm. They were dirty. Primary's are 30 MICRON. It's that simple. I changed them and poof, I then got 2680rpm.
I'm trying to figure out the appropriate math on what 2250rpm shows to be? 80%? My MFD's with smart craft & NMEA2000 does not show me load. Anyone know approximately what load we're talking?
Captain Brian
Active Member
- Jan 5, 2013
- 127
- Boat Info
- 460 Sundancer 2001
"The BEECH HOUSE"
- Engines
- 6 CTA Cummins 450 HP with Vdrives, 10.0kw Westerbeke Gennie
Hello guys, sorry to break into the middle of a discussion. Has anyone changed their cutlass bearings? if so any info on what they used, how they accomplished it etc would be great. FYI I have the 8.3L 6 CTA Cummins and I believe with this combo the 2" prop shafts. Again new boat to me so any help would be appreciated.
Blown284
Well-Known Member
You can get the removal tool here: https://strutpro.com/product-category/individual-kits/
You likely have 2" shafts.
Good luck!