450 Sundancer

Carver370

Carver370

Well-Known Member
Mar 30, 2007
1,928
New Buffalo Michigan
Boat Info
2000 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer - Diesel
Engines
T-3116 CAT - 350 HP
A friend of mine is having their 450 Sundancer surveyed before it is listed to determine hull condition so there are no surprises if a sale occurs.

During this survey, the surveyor found an area on the starboard side about 20" tall and 12' long. There are no thru hulls or anything in this area and we can't for the life of us figure out why this area is pegging the moisture meter.

The boat is shrinkwrapped still but the area in question is out in the open air and sunlight daily.

Here is a picture of what I am talking about, this picture is NOT the boat in question but simply a 450 Sundancer picture I found online to use for reference. The area is confined so much that you could draw a line where it is "wet" and where is goes dry again. Nothing is wet on any sides of the lines and everything above the area is dry as well.

There are no other areas with moisture either.

Any ideas?

1388765_1copy.jpg
 
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450DA's are usually free from moisture issues, so I have only one idea.......and I know the 450 pretty well. For excess moisture, the only possible way for that spot to be wet is for there to be a delamination in the hull bottom near the chine and the spot has migrated due to hydraulic pressure from the bottom.

The the other observation I can offer is that non-destructive moisture testing is very very subject to false positives. Something as simple as a cold bond or an extra thickness of mat in the layup can cause screwy contact moisture meter readings. In this case, there may be nothing at all wrong with the boat.

But, I'd like to know what the eventual outcome of this one is.
 
Thanks Frank, we are looking into it. It is very odd to us that it is only this panel. The port side is bone dry and so is the rest of the boat.

Does anybody know if the outlined area is the size of the coremat sheet?
 
I finally have something to add...maybe.

Non contact moisture meters work on the principal of density. Density of wood is much less the density of water or for that fact, wood saturated with water. My questions is would why would the density of this area be higher that the other port side in the same basic location? Well, as Frank has mentioned, additional thickness of materials may affect moisture meters.

Moisture meters do not take readings on the surface but they are set up to take reading of the density at a fixed distance from the contact area of the moisture meter. Moisture meters are a scientific tool, interpreting the data is an art that takes time to learn.

Thermal imaging MAY give you different result and/or answers...but again, interpretation is the key to this tool as well.

Just thought I would give some insight if some of us didn't know this.
 
Are you obtaining those high readings from the inside of the bilge or outside of the hull? They say the most accurate readings are from the inside if possible.

Doug
 
I think moisture meters use conductivity, not density. They produce an arc shape which penetrates into the composite and back to the meter. Water, or wet balsa, is more conductive than wood or glass.
 
There are two types of meters, conductive and inductive (density). Conductive is what I would call destructive since you must place the probes into the wood for readings, which means drilling holes in the gelcoat. Others do not require holes but are very subjective to analysis. I was a home inspector for a couple of years and analysis of the the data was always the tricky part.
 
The readings were being done from the exterior and the interior where it could be accessed because of the fuel tank. Both peg the meter, literally on the outline I drew out it goes from 2-5% moisture which is normal right to pegging it. You can pretty much draw a line where the meter picks it up and doesn't.
 
TurtleTone said:
was Frank right?
Click to expand...

Has he ever been wrong?

Carver370 said:
Sea Ray is fixing the boat this winter free of charge to the owner.
Click to expand...

That's really good customer service. Wonder how many other boat builders would repair a hull free of charge that is more than 10 year old?

Best regards,
Frank
 
You want a guess?

There was a delamination due to a cold bond between layers of the substrait. There was no physical damage and the boat was properly maintained.

In this particular spot on a 450 that is about all that could cause the problem. Add to that the fact that Sea Ray is repairing the boat and you can deduce that there was a structural defect......and they won't fix a poorly maintained boat or one with physical damage.
 
The boat in question is pretty much in showroom condition and has been maintained by the local Sea Ray dealer since new with a paper trail to prove it. The reason Sea Ray stood behind it is the exact reason Frank stated.
 
Does the owner plan to fix it and then put her on the market? What year out of curiosity?
 
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