420/44 DB Owners Club

[hipo]

Jeez-that sounds crazy--never a dull moment

 

[bajturner]

Okay you leak hunters, see if you can help out in this one. 2004 420 SB always had been a dry boat same owner now for three plus years.
There is water collecting in the aft pump well via the channel on Strd side of center walk. We sponge dried a few gallons out of the well, then tracked back and found water had collected in the underwater exhaust area out board of rudder shaft well. Dried all of that area then went for a run. All was dry until we came off of plane and found just as much water in those areas. I sat back there behind the genny with a flash light and watched as we went back on plane then back off, get a bunch of water sloshing to the stern from under the genny into the rudder shaft box and then into the exhaust box. Come off plane and it drains forward and eventually ends up in the pump box.
We will pull the batteries, AC freshwater pump and a few other odds and ends and pull the floor up to see where the water may be coming from. Only seems to come in while under way not just sitting. I’m thinking possibly the strut bolts may be leaking thru?
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks
Rusty and Harold

That seems like a tricky one. There's not a lot going on in that area. Strut bolts is about it (unlabelled + signs with boxes around them, I think), but it sounds like an awful lot of water for that to be the cause. I guess if was considerably loose it could. Any vibration?

Could it be a generator muffler hose off or cracked? Rusted generator muffler? Rusted generator heat exchanger (but I guess that wouldn't be affected by on-plane / off-plane), cracked or loose generator raw water hose? Cracked or loose underwater exhaust hose?

Is it accumulating only on the starboard side? Not a lot of hoses down low back there...

Generator heat exchanger is on the port side of the generator, I think, but I suppose water could make its way over to the other side.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

That seems like a tricky one. There's not a lot going on in that area. Strut bolts is about it (unlabelled + signs with boxes around them, I think), but it sounds like an awful lot of water for that to be the cause. I guess if was considerably loose it could. Any vibration?

View attachment 83966

Could it be a generator muffler hose off or cracked? Rusted generator muffler? Rusted generator heat exchanger (but I guess that wouldn't be affected by on-plane / off-plane), cracked or loose generator raw water hose? Cracked or loose underwater exhaust hose?

Is it accumulating only on the starboard side? Not a lot of hoses down low back there...

View attachment 83970

Generator heat exchanger is on the port side of the generator, I think, but I suppose water could make its way over to the other side.

I spent 30 minutes inspecting the entire engine room while under way this after noon from idle speed to wot. I think my hearing is coming back finally. I saw no dripping or spray from either exhaust system. Genny was not running. I think it is only leaking at speed when the bow is up. Harold is pulling the starboard floor forward of the genny and we will take it for another run and be able to see where the water is coming from. It will serve a dual purpose as there is a mess under there from an unfortunate past sewage situation
Thanks for the drawing
Rusty

 

[ttmott]

I spent 30 minutes inspecting the entire engine room while under way this after noon from idle speed to wot. I think my hearing is coming back finally. I saw no dripping or spray from either exhaust system. Genny was not running. I think it is only leaking at speed when the bow is up. Harold is pulling the starboard floor forward of the genny and we will take it for another run and be able to see where the water is coming from. It will serve a dual purpose as there is a mess under there from an unfortunate past sewage situation
Thanks for the drawing
Rusty

Rusty - My bet is the deck to hull joint. I think you will find the rub rail in the aft areas of the boat pretty much wetted all of the time when running and coming off plane. That joint is also like a roof leak on a house in that the leak location may be different than where it shows.
We finally corrected the mystery leaks in my boat by removing the rub rail, cleaning the joint out, and injecting 5200 into the joint completely filling it. In this pic of my boat you can see the factory applied caulking was poorly applied and pretty much falling out when the rub rail was removed. Note the long lengths of the caulking on the ground in these pics.

 

[sb in gp]

Okay you leak hunters, see if you can help out in this one. 2004 420 SB always had been a dry boat same owner now for three plus years.
There is water collecting in the aft pump well via the channel on Strd side of center walk. We sponge dried a few gallons out of the well, then tracked back and found water had collected in the underwater exhaust area out board of rudder shaft well. Dried all of that area then went for a run. All was dry until we came off of plane and found just as much water in those areas. I sat back there behind the genny with a flash light and watched as we went back on plane then back off, get a bunch of water sloshing to the stern from under the genny into the rudder shaft box and then into the exhaust box. Come off plane and it drains forward and eventually ends up in the pump box.
We will pull the batteries, AC freshwater pump and a few other odds and ends and pull the floor up to see where the water may be coming from. Only seems to come in while under way not just sitting. I’m thinking possibly the strut bolts may be leaking thru?
Any ideas anyone?
Thanks
Rusty and Harold

I had exact same boat, and exact same mysterious water in aft pump well. One year when I put the boat in drydock (inside a building) I vacuumed the water out and it reappeared a few weeks later. I chalked that up to water that had been vacuum held in one of the pump hoses eventually let loose. I also had mysterious water under port engine that I could never find source. I don't own the boat anymore but I'm still very curious where it was coming from.

Sadly, with this stay-at-home nonsense, this is some of the best boating excitement I've had (besides my secret obsession: watching Below Deck)

 

[craigswardmtb]

Does anyone know of an appropriate sized replacement fridge for the port cockpit fridge? The old black one is looking pretty tattered.

 

[Irie308]

Does anyone know of an appropriate sized replacement fridge for the port cockpit fridge? The old black one is looking pretty tattered.

Replaced with the isotherm 49 drawer. Had to trim about 1/2 inch on the side to get it in. Much nicer fit and finish plus way quieter than the old one. The hum from the old fridge would drive me nuts when relaxing on the salon sofa. It was louder then the gen.

 

[bajturner]

Does anyone know of an appropriate sized replacement fridge for the port cockpit fridge? The old black one is looking pretty tattered.

I had to replace mine when I bought the boat. Got a new one in Plymouth before leaving. I am 90% sure it was this one (not at the boat, documentation not near me, double-check dimensions!) :
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/norc...tainless-steel-1-7cu-ft--14000822?recordNum=1

It is a good fit, but no perfect way to secure it. I ended-up putting screws through the front bezel. The bezel itself is optional, depending on the application, and not secured really well to the fridge itself. Hasn't been an issue though. Need to make a new grill for the bottom. Here's a bunch of pictures that may help.

 

[bajturner]

Replaced with the isotherm 49 drawer. Had to trim about 1/2 inch on the side to get it in. Much nicer fit and finish plus way quieter than the old one. The hum from the old fridge would drive me nuts when relaxing on the salon sofa. It was louder then the gen.

View attachment 83990View attachment 83991

Nice!

Anyone want to buy a lightly-used Norcold 1.7 cu ft fridge?

The new one I got is actually pretty quiet...not really noticeable.

 

[Irie308]

Sorry the couldn't see how to rotate the photos.

 

[Alex F]

Previous owner replaced Norcold with Isotherm 49 (regular style, not the drawer), which lasted about 10 years. I replaced it with Vitrifrigo (don't recall 100%, but I think it's
C51IXD4-F model), which was pretty much plug and play. The selling point was roomier design for almost the same dimensions. I'ts just deeper, which is not an issue, as there's plenty of space in that opening.

If you have to do a bit of cutting, it's not a big deal at all. All you need is a masking tape and a jigsaw.

 

[hipo]

I am in the process of a recon on my original cockpit refer that still works. If any of you that have removed your old refer
have good hinge pin brackets I would be happy to purchase them.

I got a Dometic two years ago that turns into only a refrigerator(has a removable freezer) Had to enlarge hole maybe 1/2 inch--has been working great

 

[bjurkovski]

My water heater died and I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to get it out and a replacement in there. Anybody done this before and have any tips on the best way to replace it?

I'm putting in an Isotemp SPA 40 to replace it and I want to orient it sideways to make replacing heating elements on it easier than the Attwood in there now oriented forward.

BTW That Attwood is a horrible design and I can't understand why Sea Ray would put a unit in that has to be removed to change the heating element.

Thanks!

 

[bajturner]

My water heater died and I'm having a heck of a time figuring out how to get it out and a replacement in there. Anybody done this before and have any tips on the best way to replace it?

I'm putting in an Isotemp SPA 40 to replace it and I want to orient it sideways to make replacing heating elements on it easier than the Attwood in there now oriented forward.

BTW That Attwood is a horrible design and I can't understand why Sea Ray would put a unit in that has to be removed to change the heating element.

Thanks!

I believe you have to remove the exhaust pipe. I had both pipes out the winter of 2018-2019 to replace all the sanitation lines and I almost had the hot water heater replaced then, but didn't do it. I should have.

The heating element failed on it last September so the guys at the marina replaced the element late last fall. It was 1.2 hrs of labor plus a $74 element (about the price of a new heater!), but I don't believe they removed the entire water heater to do so.

There is room at he front of the tank to replace the element if you can get yourself close enough to it...

 

[bjurkovski]

The bolts are striped out so I'm looking at a new unit unfortunately. I must have cross-threaded the bolts last time I did it cause it's hard to line it all back up when your laying on your stomach on top of the exhaust tube.

The bad part of the design is with that black bracket that is bolted to the floor. You have to unscrew both brackets and lift the unit up so you can slide the bracket out that sits in front of the heating element.

I sliced my hands up pretty good this time propping up all that sheet metal fiddling with that bracket

How hard is it to remove the exhaust tube and can you do it with the boat in the water?

Thanks!

 

[Alex F]

There's absolutely no way to remove the HWH without taking the exhaust pipe off. I did this long time ago to take the leaky WH out. I had two plumbed in parallel, so I left only one in service.

Unfortunately, since it's been many years ago, I don't recall if I took the exhaust pipe when the boat was out of water or in. I'm looking at few pics of my ER and it looks like that the bottom part of the pipe is just at the edge of the water line. So, it's hard to say if you'll have any water leaking in. I believe you should be fine, but I can't say for sure.

On the other hand, it's very easy to test. Just loosen the two hose clamp by the exhaust port and see of there are any leaks. you may need to loosen the pipe to validate for no leaks.

To remove the pipe you'll need two people. The process is simple, just loosen all 4 clamps and there's enough room to wiggle it out.

 

[craigswardmtb]

Jeez, i hope the exhaust tube doesn't leak. My WH is ok for now. I just replaced the dripping pressure relief valve. There is some corrosion at the base but not too bad yet. Maybe next year i'll get to it. Good luck with your's and keep us posted if it leaks when the exhaust tube is removed.
I do, however, need to fix my stbd head. There is some sort of leak, where it effectively continues to fill my holding tank if i don't shut the breaker off. I have read there is some sort of gasket/seal rebuild kit at the pressure tank, which is right by the water heater. It would seem i need to also remove the exhaust tube to work on it.
Has anyone had to do this rebuild? I suppose i have been fortunate that in my 10 years of cruising i have never had to get too dirty with head work, minus kid clogs that could be handled at the toilet... It was only a matter of time i suppose....

 

[bajturner]

How hard is it to remove the exhaust tube and can you do it with the boat in the water?

The boat was out of the water, but I seems to me this could be done in the water. As suggested, you'll know quickly as you start to loosen the clamps.

 

[bajturner]

Jeez, i hope the exhaust tube doesn't leak. My WH is ok for now. I just replaced the dripping pressure relief valve. There is some corrosion at the base but not too bad yet. Maybe next year i'll get to it. Good luck with your's and keep us posted if it leaks when the exhaust tube is removed.
I do, however, need to fix my stbd head. There is some sort of leak, where it effectively continues to fill my holding tank if i don't shut the breaker off. I have read there is some sort of gasket/seal rebuild kit at the pressure tank, which is right by the water heater. It would seem i need to also remove the exhaust tube to work on it.
Has anyone had to do this rebuild? I suppose i have been fortunate that in my 10 years of cruising i have never had to get too dirty with head work, minus kid clogs that could be handled at the toilet... It was only a matter of time i suppose....

It sounds to me, if your holding tank keeps filling up, that the problem is at the toilet, not the vacuum pump. I would check to make sure the flush lever is fully returning to the closed position. If it isn't, two things will happen. The ball valve won't seal so the vacuum pump will continue to pull air and fluid from the bowl. Also, the water valve on a cam in the lever will not close so water will continue to run into the bowl. This would fill your tank. Some rebuild kit for that set of problems!

 

[bjurkovski]

I'll be giving it a go this weekend if the new water heater gets here on time and report back. The new unit looks real nice and am looking forward to the increased hot water capacity due to the mixing valve feature.

I would think those tubes would have to be above the waterline otherwise there would be water in the turbo's. I'm going to bring an inflatable ball to put in the opening in case of wake turbulence.

Thanks!