420/44 DB Owners Club

vanburen said:
Televisions-
Has anyone replaced the Zenith TV in the Salon, and if so, how happy are you with the larger and or HDTV in that location. I am redoing the A/V and am looking for an improved TV to go along with the Mac Mini. Any pictures?

Many thanks,
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I installed a new 32" Insignia LED HDTV today. I put it on an articulating arm mount so we can swing it out and face it out back. I'll get picks tomorrow.
 
There was an interesting discussion on 480DB Owners Club in regards on using generator while away from the dock. Based on the feedback we got it seems like most people run their gennies all the time when away from the dock and shut them off only upon return.

Our boats are very similar to 480DBs, but we have some vital components designed to run on dual voltage instead of just 110v or 220v, like on 480DBs and larger yachts. I wanted to hear opinions and see if anyone takes advantage of running your 12v systems and let the generator “rest”?

I’ll start with sharing my experience. As you can imagine, the temps are still mild and salon stays comfortable without having a/c-heat running. Considering the fact that I have no real need to run the genny I didn’t run it every time I left the dock for day cruises either.

After nice cruise last Sat. I got to my destination and was hanging on the hook for few hours. When it was time for lunch I fired up the genny to have all necessary equipment operational. I ran the genny for couple of hours and then shut it off. While we went on with our events the next time I fired up the genny was few ours later when it was time to cook dinner. Just like during lunch hours I ran it for couple of hours to have galley fully available, charge the batteries, heat up the water in HWH and run the entertainment center. The night temps forecast was comfortable, so once again I didn’t feel a need for the genny to run all night. So, I shut it off.

This is pretty much is very similar usage of generator how I did it on my 320DA. During the night I had the same equipment running:
- 2 Refrigerators
- Anchor light
- Night light for salon (indirect lights), guest stateroom and master stateroom. Obviously prior calling it the night we had all other lights on even after the genny was shutdown.
- All 12v breakers were on and obviously we had fresh water and head operating throughout the night.

Overall, the generator was off for about 10-11 hours. Before firing it up the following morning I checked the batteries and the reading was 11+v for one side and 12+v for another side. These were very familiar readings to what I’m used to see on my 320DA. I fired up the genny to warm up the HWH, charge the batteries and have the house ready for the breakfast gathering. Ones again, I ran it for 1-1.5hrs and shut it off until we had late lunch several hours later.

While I was in the process of upgrading and looking for my next boat I was pleasantly surprised to discover that 400/420/44DBs and DAs have dual voltage fridges. This was a good indication that unlike larger yachts we really don’t have to run our generators 24/7 while away from the dock. Thus, based on my experience from last weekend I feel that this is true and as long as the temps remain comfortable (while A/C-heating units remain off) in the salon and the staterooms we have an option of letting our gennies “rest”.
 
Alex, I think you are utilizing the genset in a very acceptable manner. There's really no wrong answer, but I will tell you that many people who don't run theirs at all seem to have more problems with them. Like any engine, they need to run to keep them healthy. I generally don't use mine all that much but I have taken to letting it run under load much more frequently to be sure it gets its exercise.
 
I agree. Your plan seems to be sound. I just keep mine on all the time to avoid:
1. Straining the batteries by dropping them to 11V
2. "Dad, we want to watch a move on the bigscreen, can you start the genny?"
3. "Honey, I want to cook something in the microwave, can you start the genny?"
4. "It's hot/cold in here, can you please start the genny?"
 
The way I look at this it all depends on different situations. I'd say that the weather is one of the biggest dictators. For example, during the day if the weather is nice and we hang out outside, on the bridge, or on a beach and do different activities and the temps are comfortable for open forward hatch and sliding doors to provide enough fresh and comfortable air to ventilate the salon, then I see no reason to run the generator. IMO, at this point the usage of the 12v is not tha big. We got two fridges (salon and the cockpit), stereo might be on, but it doesn't use that much at all. Fresh water and the heads use very little juice as they're not used frequently.

When it's time for having everyone back on board for a meal, then of course it's a good time to fire up the genny and have all the equipment in ready state. This is a good time for batteries to charge and provide you more "fresh" juice when you shut off genny in couple of hours when everyone is back to their activities.

At night, is the same things, it a'' depends on the weather and air temps. If we're comfortable with open hatch having a light fresh breeze coming in, then I don't see why do we need to run the genny all night. Of course in DBs it's different than in DAs since guest stateroom doesn't get ventilated well. So, in this case I guess we need to judge it by the conditions in that room vs. the master or salon. If kids are comfortable, than we don't need generator running all night long.

I'm sure that folks in northern parts of the country would agree and use similar practice as we can only wish for more hot days. On the other hand folks in the southern states most defenatelly need their A/Cs ON most of the time, so I can clearly see the direct need on having genny run very often, if not 24/7.

After having many years of experience staying on the hook overnight on my previous boats, at this point I'm convinced that the way 420DB is configured allows use of very similar practice.

I'll do more testing and will report back on how the batteries are holding up after being discharged very slightly during the night, which is the longest time frame when they don't get any help from the generator while it's off.
 
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Hell, just run the sumbitch. I have 1800+ hours on a gas Westerbeke. Start before you leave the dock, shut it off when you get back. Why go though all the agony of checking voltages and worrying about if you're going to have enough juice to fire off the motors or keep your Grey Poupon cold. That boat has plenty of other stuff to worry about.
 
I personally never worry about loosing all the juice. My previouse boat had 4 very well functional batteries and my 420 has 6 batteries. Even though I'm only getting to know the boat it's still very good habit to keep a close eye on things. I think this is a basic obligation and responsibility of a good captain. When I was out on the hook for a weekend and didn't use the generator on my 320 I never doubted that she'll start right up as soon as I hit the switches. I expect nothing less from 420 either.

My only point in both threads was that everyone has their own preferences and ways of doing things. The fact of the matter is that boats like 420DB and similar are disigned to let you use 12v equipment for a reasonable amount of time without a real need to run the generator supplying constant 110v to keep your batteries charged. This is a big difference between larger yacths that have 220v or 110v without dual voltage option.

BTW, my personal idea of letting the genreator "rest" when I don't need it is not to save fuel as it's very economical, but I wouldn't mind to have less hours on it and don't let them accumulate in the times when I don't really need to use the genny.
 
I have close to 4000 hours on my Gen. That's probably 15 years of running the gen 24/7. They say they can go to 9000 no problem, so that's about another 20 years of running it 24/7. I'll probably be dead before I wear out the Gen. When I run my Gen for a full weekend, the fuel usage isn't measurable.
 
I totally hear you Mike. But, maybe it's just me, but I tend to always think about the resale value. I think that if my genny will have 3,000hrs-4,000hrs when I'll be selling her she'll be much more attractive to the potential buyer vs. having 6,000hrs-7,000hrs on the genny.

During my upgrade process I was really shocked to see extremelly low hour boats on the market. My 320DA with only 525hrs was among the highest engine hours. The biggest kicker I had when someone asked, do these engines still run? Obviously I just laughed and didn't even waste my time with such buyer. 400DBs and 420DBs were not much different.

So, the bottom line is that just b/c I have the equipment that can run forever and just b/c I can, doesn't really justify it for me. I like and do run everything I have when I need it. With this boat I know for sure that my genny will be used way much more than on 320. My boats were never a dock queens, so having my equipment sitting with no use is the least of my worries, b/c it will be used.
 
Do you really think you're boat is going to be worth much by the time you put 7000 hours on your gen? That'll take like 40 years of weekend boating.

Plus constantly starting and stopping your gen probably puts more wear and tear on it.
 
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Based on the economy and the cost of fuel your boat won't be worth crap in a few years anyway....why not use the hell out of her ?
 
Turtlesboat said:
Do you really think you're boat is going to be worth much by the time you put 7000 hours on your gen? That'll take like 40 years of weekend boating.

Plus constantly starting and stopping your gen probably puts more wear and tear on it.
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I can’t predict the future, so I really don’t know how long I’ll be keeping the current boat. For that reason I never tried to gauge how many hours my boat will have on the mains and the genny, but as I mentioned I always used it only when I needed it, not b/c it was there. I guess, all I can do is analyze the market based on what I’ve seen so far when I considered purchasing 2001-2002 400DB. The average 10 y/o boats had about 800-1000hrs on mains and around 800-1200hrs on the generator. I was comfortable with these numbers as they made sense for a 10y/o boats. It’s obviously normal to see that lower hours boat has the higher price tag and something with long hours drops down in the list.

So, if I look at my boat when it reaches 10 years I would expect to see slightly higher numbers than average boats, but still reasonable. For example, if I put 100hrs on the mains and 150hrs on the genny each season (we have to consider the fact that we’re seasonal boaters), in 2015 my boat would have 1000hrs on mains and 1200hrs on the genny. These numbers actually would put her in the average category. If I use the same numbers and look at my 10 years of ownership, in 2021 she would have 1600hrs on the mains and 2300hrs on the genny. I would think that these are still very reasonable numbers and she would still be worth what her average competitors are.

In summary, all of my boats never lost more than I anticipated at the time of the sale. In fact with some of my SRs I was way ahead of the game. 320 didn’t let me down too much either and trust me I have high hopes for my 420 as well. So, I despite the fact how much I love my 420 I really hope I don’t own her by the time she gets 7000hrs on the generator, b/c I would prefer to be on a not necessary larger but newer boat.

autovette said:
Based on the economy and the cost of fuel your boat won't be worth crap in a few years anyway....why not use the hell out of her ?
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I'd like to be more on optimistic side. Eventually the economy shall recover and I strongly disagree that in few years she'll be worth crap. Don't forget that she lost most of the value in her first 2-3yrs, so the trend of depritiation has stablized to norm.
 
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Whatever you save by not clocking hours on the gen, you'll spend on starters, fuel solenoids, batteries, impellers, and whatever else gives out from heating and cooling multiple times a day.
 
Mike, I'm really not against running the genny as I know that it's better to run it. I just don't see a reason to run it 24/7. All I did was a one weekend test to prove my theory that it's not necessary to do it either and 12v side supply holds just fine the way I use the boat. I'm pretty sure that as the temps will go to a steady above 80 degrees, then I'll have no excuse and the genny will be on most of the time. I'm not cheap or very conservative guy, I just had a question for myself "do I really need to run my genny the moment I leave the dock and keep it on until I return?" and I proved to myself that my expected answer "NO" was valid. So, I'm just happy that the boat is equiped in such way that I don't need a barge of batteries if I don't run the genny. I payed tons of money and just like you I wark hard for the ownership, so she will defenatelly have to give me return on the "investment".

BTW, Things like batteries, starters are really a pocket change in the big picture. Impeller gets replaced each year anyway.


I also never said that those that run their gennies all the time are wrong and it's very possible that soon enough I'll do the same. So, time will show.
 
It's like having a really nice classic car in the garage and never driving it. Alex, use it and enjoy the boat and maintain it while you have it. I bought my boat with 94 hours on it. I will be able to show the next owner how well it was maintained rather that not use it in fear that I'll lose some $$$ when I sell her. Just enjoy it for what it is. If you keep basing your use on resale value I think you're in it for the wrong reasons.
You have a beautiful boat, go have fun. Boating and accounting have never mixed well.
 
So... like I got this hammer... And you know... when I hit my thumb with the hammer it hurts. I wasn't sure if the pain was a direct result of hitting my thumb with the hammer or if it was just a strange coincidence. So I hit my thumb again. You won't believe this, but it's true, my thumb hurt even more. Sure, but it was the same pain and not a new pain. It could be that the old pain was just intensifying on it's own and that hitting my thumb with the hammer had absolutely nothing to do with the increased pain. So I hit my thumb once more. Interestingly... the pain got more intense. "Ah! I'm on to something here!" So I switched the hammer to the other hand, which I had to do very carefully because of my painful thumb, and hit the thumb on my other hand a couple of times. Again, I got a similar pain thing going, but it's not quite exactly the same.

I think there might be a causal relationship there, but the data isn't 100% crystal clear. And then I got confused. Was that a causal relationship or a casual relationship? Big difference between the two! So I'm going to repeat the experiments again tomorrow after the swelling goes down, when I can hold a hammer in my hands again.
 
It's more like getting a beautiful centerfold model and making her wear a chastity belt so it doesn't get worn out.
 
Frank, get the hammer and smash Todd's classic car...then everyone's happy and you don't have to belabor generators and the running of them.
 
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