420/44 DB Owners Club

Discussion in 'Sport Yachts/Yachts' started by Alex F, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Funny. I’m moving from a Dancer to a sedan because I’m tired of going down into “the cave” all the time.

    Do you really cruise at only 10knots? It must take all day to get anywhere? I’d think the preferred cruise speed for those engines is somewhere near 18-22 knots?
     
  2. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    444
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    We moved up for exactly the same reason from a Rinker 350 but also to get out of the out drive issues. We cruise at 10 to twelve because most of our runs are under 50 miles and are three to four day outings so what's the rush? If we depart after work and are trying to chase the sun then we do run at 22. It just costs a whole lot more money for the weekend.
     
  3. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Totally understand. That must be the "express cruiser owner" bias in me showing its' head! LOL. So are you planing at 10-12 knots?
     
  4. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    444
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Pretty much I'd say. These boats feel so much different that express boats. Even at slower speeds when your really not up on plane they just seem to move through the water without the feeling that they are plowing a field. Your driving from the bridge so your not having to peer over the nose like you do in an express boat at slow speeds. When I had my Rinker I hated driving at any speed less than 20, but Ive just really settled in to enjoying the 10 to twelve knot cruising and still have the capability of 25 to 30 if I need it.
    Carpe Diem
     
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  5. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Good point. I drove a buddy's 400 last week. Totally different view from up there. I like it, though. And yeah, we were cruising at 20 knots and it felt quite calm. He even let me try to dock it, in the wind. I took two attempts and let him have it back. Ha ha. It wasn't MY boat and it didn't help that I was trying to dock WITH the wind. Docking will take getting used to, much like it did in my current boat (where I can't see the back corners of the swim platform either!).
     
  6. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    444
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    If your buddy's 400 had gassers like your express does then you will be amazed at how relatively easy it is to dock a diesel powered 420 or 44DB. Those big 24 or 26 inch props really bite when the drives engage and the boat goes where directed right now. Rarely a need to add power. Add the benefit of the bow thruster and it makes you look like a pro. When you find your boat and get comfortable with it, look me up if you want to add a wireless remote control helm. I posted about it a while back and have the system working on four boats now.
    Carpe Diem
     
  7. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Will do! And no, the 400 is diesel. But it was my first time driving his boat and his slip is right next to another friend’s slip. So I could have taken out two boats with one mistake! I’m not at all worried that I could have done it, but as it was my first attempt in someone else’s boat, I was erring on the side of caution!
     
  8. Carpediem44DB

    Carpediem44DB Active Member

    444
    Aug 18, 2015
    Sanfransico Bay area
    2006 44 DB Sedan Bridge Raymarine gS165 w Quantum HD Radar
    cummins QSC 8.3 500 HD
    Roger that! I've maintained a policy for years that has served me well, Don't fly other peoples planes and don't slip their boat unless their paying me! S....just Happens.
    Carpe Diem
     
    scooper321 likes this.
  9. sb in gp

    sb in gp Member

    768
    Oct 10, 2006
    Grosse Pointe, MI
    44 Sedan Bridge 2006
    Cummins QSC-500
    I'm looking to upgrade the salon TV. I want something a little bigger and flatter than the 10 yr old model I have onboard. AC only is fine, we don't watch when we're underway. Any recommendations on size and model? Send pics.

    Thanks,

    Scott
     
  10. fsudelt

    fsudelt Member

    190
    Jul 25, 2008
    Orlando, FL & Port Austin, MI
    2019 230 SLX
    Previous:
    2006 Malibu Ride XTi
    2007 210 Select
    2007 310DA
    2007 240DA
    6.2L Mercruiser 300HP w/ Bravo III Drives
    Sorry as I’m probably going to wear you all out with questions during our search period. Something I read or came across is there is a pretty significant engine service at 1,000 hours, to the tune of around $19K. Can anyone confirm if that is accurate? Based on looking at boats in the 2003-2007 range a lot are around those hours in terms of engine hours.

    Thanks again for the input!
     
  11. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Ha! I know the boat! It’s in my marina. I had the same concern so I asked the broker for a detailed copy of that $19k invoice. I read it over and talked to some friends that own Cummins diesels to see what they thought about that amount of service work and the size of that 1000 hour invoice. I’d recommend you do the same. If you’re comfortable with what you read, then you have a “baseline” service starting point if you buy the boat.
     
  12. fsudelt

    fsudelt Member

    190
    Jul 25, 2008
    Orlando, FL & Port Austin, MI
    2019 230 SLX
    Previous:
    2006 Malibu Ride XTi
    2007 210 Select
    2007 310DA
    2007 240DA
    6.2L Mercruiser 300HP w/ Bravo III Drives
    I saw it while looking up 420/440 DB’s the other day & saw that comment from the listing broker about the service price tag which shocked me. The weird part is the boat no longer shows up in any searches for me anymore...

    I’m just curious if I buy a 420/440 with 900 +\- hours am I going to be in for a big service charge within 1 year. If so obviously that needs to be factored into pricing.
     
  13. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    I tried to fit a 37”, but too wide and got in the way of coming and going out of the door. Settled for a 32” Vizio. I took the black board down behind the TV and made a new one. I routered a slot under the TV in the board to mount the satellite receiver. I can post some pics this weekend. I think it all looks good, is very functional, and works well.

    Bennett
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
  14. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    It’s still out there on boattrader and yachtworld. At least it was this morning.

    Any diesel in that hour range is coming up on its’ 1000 hour service. Might be one of the reasons some people are selling? As I understand it, a typical 1000hour service can be around $8k, plus or minus. That assumes you don’t need new aftercoolers, injectors, or other big ticket items. Reviewing a prev owner’s maintenance records for regular maintenance will give you confidence that the engine won’t need any of these big ticket items. Getting an engine-manufacturer-certified tech to do an engine survey (in addition to the hull survey) will also help identify potential risks. But yes, if you’re looking at a 900 hour boat and it hasn’t had 1000 hour maintenance, you should factor that into your price negotiations. I would! Also, if the boat has 1100, 1200,or more hours and there’s no record of having done 1000 hour service, assume it hasn’t been done. And I’d also wonder what ELSE the owner skimped on? Red flag there...

    Finally, learn the engines you’re looking at. Are there known common issues? The 480CE’s in many early 420DB’s were known to have been over propped. Thus, the engines worked harder than necessary, generating more heat than they were built to handle and sometimes that resulted in them swallowing a valve (often #6 near the exhaust). Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t buy a boat with those engines. But ask if the boat has stock props (you’ll want to re prop it to a smaller prop). Ask if it has had new heads put on or valves adjusted. You wont know how hard the boat was run by previous owners so these items are suspect “stress points”. I’m sure other engines have ther idiosyncrasies, too. Read up on them and learn them, so you know what to investigate in boats you look at and items to negotiate.

    Ok, lecture over...
     
    fsudelt likes this.
  15. fsudelt

    fsudelt Member

    190
    Jul 25, 2008
    Orlando, FL & Port Austin, MI
    2019 230 SLX
    Previous:
    2006 Malibu Ride XTi
    2007 210 Select
    2007 310DA
    2007 240DA
    6.2L Mercruiser 300HP w/ Bravo III Drives
    Appreciate the insight!
     
  16. Alex F

    Alex F Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    I love my fully mechanical 450Cs.

    A friendly advice regarding your cruise speed. 10-12kts you most likely run her at around 1400RPMs or more. If so, I'd recommend backing her down. Years ago, very experienced Cummins tech told me that 1400 or more is not very good as you're putting extra load. Better be around 1300 or get on plane and spool the turbos.

    Our displacement speed is around 8.5kts. Anything over that you're wasting fuel by pushing more water. At 1200-1300rpms I'm doing around 8.5-9kts and burn 6-7GPH total.
     
  17. Alex F

    Alex F Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    I'm sure there is, I just don't recall the steps to get to it. If you can't find it in the manual, give RM a call.
     
  18. scooper321

    scooper321 Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    867
    Jul 4, 2015
    Baltimore, MD
    2003 Sea Ray 400DB
    Twin Cummins 6CTA-8.3
    Everything I've read about diesels says they preferred to be run at 70 to 80% of WOT. What is WOT on your QSC engines?

    I don't need to go super fast, but I'm not cruising anywhere at 10 knots unless the weather dictates it. If I want to run that speed, I'd just buy a trawler and get gobs of more living space!
     
  19. bbwhitejr

    bbwhitejr Well-Known Member SILVER Sponsor

    Apr 14, 2013
    Lake Lanier GA
    2007 44DB
    Cummins QSC 8.3s
    WOT for me is 2680 on mine.

    She will certainly roll faster than 10 knots if you want.

    Bennett
     
  20. Alex F

    Alex F Well-Known Member

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    The beauty of these type of boats is that they're designed to give you both options for comfortable cruising. You need to get from point A to point B fast, you can cruise 20-23kts all day long. You want to have nice cocktail cruise or if you're not in the rush, and want to save fuel, cruise at 9kts and just seat back and relax.
     
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