420/44 DB Owners Club

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bajturner said:
Cool. Any pictures? I am about to get moving on this...
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bajturner said:
Cleaned my shower sump for the first time since buying the boat last fall. There are a lot of these little things to catch up on! Apparently the previous owner (or owners) were not overly concerned about these types of things! Pretty gross.

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I noticed Sea Ray labelled two of the inlet hoses incorrectly. The two that come from the head floor drains are incorrectly labelled as Galley Sink and Vanity Sink. You'd think that is something they would get right...
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Looks great! What did you use to get it so nice?
 
Buyajet said:
Looks great! What did you use to get it so nice?
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I used some Simple Green Pro Heavy Duty and a lot of scrubbing and water changes. Not all the stains came out, but it looks pretty good. Shop vac was very handy.

I think if I were to do it again I would let some bilge cleaner soak overnight before starting. I think that will be part of my routine maintenance...leaving some bilge cleaner.
 
bajturner said:
I used some Simple Green Pro Heavy Duty and a lot of scrubbing and water changes. Not all the stains came out, but it looks pretty good. Shop vac was very handy.

I think if I were to do it again I would let some bilge cleaner soak overnight before starting. I think that will be part of my routine maintenance...leaving some bilge cleaner.
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Thank you for the insight. Have a good weekend.
 
Mine does the same thing. There is an air leak somewhere that causes the compressor to lose pressure and run until it builds it up again. My compressor is mounted inside the swim platform on the starboard side and a real pain to get as I am 6’4” and 235 lbs. Currently I have the breaker tripped until I can figure out the best path to get to it. I was just thinking about it today. Getting to the horn on top of the arch is equally a pain with the laced on biminis. I would start at each end of the air line-one at the compressor and the other at the horn looking for the leak. Maybe someone will chime in with a better solution.

My air pump now runs all the time. Also off at the breaker.

Last weekend I laid an old thick yoga mat across the rudders behind the genset and crawled back to the air pump and tank at the aft starboard quarter. Pumped some air into the accumulator tank and I can feel it escaping from the tank connectors. Took 12 years for the plastic collars to fail. Thought I could use air brake connectors from NAPA but can't find the correct size.

Here is the link to Kahlenberg's system diagram.

https://www.kahlenberg.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/3-6331_0.pdf

I'll call them and try to order parts 10, 11 and maybe 5 just in case.
 
Turns out Kahlenberg sells a $27 connector replacement kit that should take care of my air tank leaks. Must be a common issue. Their support team is great.
 
SeasNT said:
Turns out Kahlenberg sells a $27 connector replacement kit that should take care of my air tank leaks. Must be a common issue. Their support team is great.
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Do you have a phone number for them? I too am 6'4" and 240. I only really want to crawl back there one time. I will spend $27 hoping my issue is same and have the kit in hand when I make the trip back there.

Bennett
 
We had a opportunity for a 2004 420DB fall into our lap last week and currently have just put it under contract. It has the Cummins 6CTA engines with about 900hrs. Other major adds are a bow thruster and hydraulic lift (with a 10'6" Walker Bay centre console tender & 30hp engine). I have gone thru most of the thread for guidance on what to look for and saw the posts around 1050 to JoAna and bjturner on their purchases.

Survey is this coming Wed and hopefully the Cummins tech can come on Thursday - open to any additional words of wisdom of what to have checked out.

Question around the sea-trial - is it common for the surveyor to do this? and what 'tests' get performed?

Thanks!
 
Tomco said:
We had a opportunity for a 2004 420DB fall into our lap last week and currently have just put it under contract. It has the Cummins 6CTA engines with about 900hrs. Other major adds are a bow thruster and hydraulic lift (with a 10'6" Walker Bay centre console tender & 30hp engine). I have gone thru most of the thread for guidance on what to look for and saw the posts around 1050 to JoAna and bjturner on their purchases.

Survey is this coming Wed and hopefully the Cummins tech can come on Thursday - open to any additional words of wisdom of what to have checked out.

Question around the sea-trial - is it common for the surveyor to do this? and what 'tests' get performed?

Thanks!
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I would strongly recommend a Diesel surveyor also if the surveyor hired isn’t a genius with them. I passed on 2 420’s due to engine matters found. My hull surveyor was a genius in his own eyes. Had tons of years and Sea Ray experience. Problem was that he was freaking blind (not literally) I found out.
 
A couple of things to make sure gets checked for proper operation
Both AC units, make sure they cycle on and off both heat and cooling. Can be difficult depending on time of day for ambient temps. The fan may come on and the water may flow but that doesn’t mean the system is fully functioning.
Make sure someone checks that the sea cocks work mine were stuck open and both surveyors pointed at each other that it was their job to check them.
I found after the survey and delivery several loose and burned wire terminals behind the main electrical panel. Surveyors say the don’t open panels. Get some one who will or look for yourself.
I owned four boats before I bought the 44 DB over 20 years, did all of my own work and rarely had issues while away from the dock. Thought I knew boats.
These sport yachts are a different animal altogether I’ve learned. Three years later and rarely a mo th goes by that I don’t get to learn something new.
Best wishes on your new to you 420, I run with several and everyone to a skipper absolutely loved theirs and are cured of 2footitis.
Carpe Diem
 
Tomco.....

A few things to add:

1. Air Conditioners: Put guages on the Hi/Lo ports. Measure it. Then, in a day or two (if possible) go back and re-measure pressures. The seller can mask a "freon" leaking unit by topping it off immediately prior to survey, and the AC will get ice cold. In 2 days, it will need charging again.

2. Battery Chargers: Specifically check to see if chargers are charging. Fresh batteries, like on a bow thruster, will last for weeks, masking the presence of a bad charger!.

3. Open up EVERY hatch down below. Do not forget the small hatch in the floor of the aft cabin under the carpet runner. Water has a way of ending up there.

4. With midships hatch open, run water in the forward shower, get on your hands and knees and inpsect the shower drain for leaks. Also, while there, look for water between the stringer and the starboard hull. IF the shower is/has been leaking, it collects there, eventually making it's way aft.

5. If the seller cannot PROVE maintenance on the Aftercoolers, then that has to be a condition of sale. A new aftercooler housing and core is $3,400 (you have 2 of them).

6. If the raw water pumps are original to the boat, they NEED to be changed IMMEDIATELY. The shaft can break due to a leakly seal, and you will ruin your engine in seconds.

7. Gear Oil Coolers: If they cannot show that the original gear oil coolers were replaced, you should plan on doing it. Original coolers did not have zincs on them. New ones (if they changed them to good ones) do.

8. Engine Oil Anaysis: As part of the survey, I would get oil samples. If the previous owner cared about his boat, he will have records of the oil samples. Get them.

9. If the engine still has the grid heaters on them and they are functioning, do not get alarmed when you see the voltage indicator on the dash jumping down to 10 or so volts. It is just those heaters. It is not a bad alternator. When the engines warm up, that will stop. When starting the engines cold, I leave the switch ON for 2 to 3 cycles of the grid heaters. Yes, it's annoying to listen to the LO OIL PRESSURE alarm screaming at you, but it will make for a smoother start when you get some heat into the engine. Also, timing your start when the grid heater is OFF, will get as much power at 12+ volts to the starter.

10. Engine room cleanliness: A clean engine room will say a lot about the condition of the boat.

If you end up buying the boat, just plan on changing all pump impellers, just so you know where your zero point is. Of course, if they can show you they were just changed, then not a big deal.

Good luck. As mentioned above, the 420 is a great boat! We have thoroughly enjoyed ours for the past 2 years.

Jaybeaux
 
Thanks, Buyajet, Carpe and Jaybeaux. Good points. We do have a mechanical inspection and physical walk through as conditions of sale so I'll use your inputs and ensure that in one of the inspections each is addressed.

Thanks for taking the time to provide guidance. Survey is not until Wed, will have an update after that.

Cheers,
 
Tomco said:
Question around the sea-trial - is it common for the surveyor to do this? and what 'tests' get performed?
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Hi Tom,
In my experience it is not common for the surveyor to test much while underway, but they will confirm operation of all systems while the boat is in the water. An exception would be if the surveyor is also doing an engine inspection / analysis.

A diesel tech will want the boat to be run at various rpms, and the seller or someone appointed by the seller (typically a broker) should be at the helm. Running the boat for the sea trial is at their risk, not yours.

I had Tom Ferguson from New Hampshire survey my 44 prior to purchase, and I was very pleased with the work he did and what he found. I can share that survey with you if you would like to see what was checked and observed, and what recommendations were made.
 
TOMCO, you don't know me, but now I know you!!LOL I had put in an offer at the same time you did. Yours was obviously higher! Good luck with the boat. I am down in CT so logistically it would have been a challenge, but for the price it was worth it. Curious to see how your survey works out. I was told there was a previous potential buyer who backed out, who had a survey done, but not on the motors. You may want to try and touch base with him. Something about not achieving top speed. Said the props were undersized. Keep me informed!
Thanks,
Mark
 
I had a hull surveyor and 2-Cummins Techs for the entire day for our surveys. During the sea trial, the hull surveyor was recording all of the numbers and was very involved with the Techs. They had a computer hooked up to each of my QSC 500s and I got a report of everything you can imagine. The Techs pulled the fluids for the lab analysis from each engine and the gen and those were part of the final report.

I made up my mind to one thing....if the engines did not come apart during the sea trial, they never would as I would never run them that hard! Thus far, in the one year we have owned her, not one surprise....

Bennett
 
bbwhitejr said:
I had a hull surveyor and 2-Cummins Techs for the entire day for our surveys. During the sea trial, the hull surveyor was recording all of the numbers and was very involved with the Techs. They had a computer hooked up to each of my QSC 500s and I got a report of everything you can imagine. The Techs pulled the fluids for the lab analysis from each engine and the gen and those were part of the final report.

I made up my mind to one thing....if the engines did not come apart during the sea trial, they never would as I would never run them that hard! Thus far, in the one year we have owned her, not one surprise....

Bennett
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This is very similar to how my surveys were done, but only one diesel tech (Doug Gorham from Gorham Diesel). He had to repeat all the test runs for each engine. The marine surveyor and engine tech on-board at the same time. They did discuss some things and collaborate. The surveyor actually fixed a slow-drip oil leak from the turbo oil return line! It was an interesting day- September 19th, 2017.

Everything had been scheduled about 2 weeks prior at Brewer Plymouth Marine, and as luck would have it, hurricane Jose was barrelling up the East Coast. We did the sea trial amidst the outer bands of the hurricane with the sea kicking-up while Brewer Marine was hustling to pull boats out of the water, including the one we were on for the hull and running gear survey. I have to say, Brewer was extremely cooperative. Top marks to them.

Stressful and hectic time, but well worth it!
 
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