420/44 DB Owners Club

[Irie308]

Yes and Ok. So I guess either I do’t or they are failing. Any idea where they would be?

They should be located behind the gen coming up the wall from the sump area. Black valves inline with the discharge line.

 

[Alex F]

Question: We intend to do most of our cruising at hull speed to conserve fuel and stay away from the fuel dock for extended periods of time(watermaker will be our friend). It is my intention to run the boat up on plane several times a day to 'blow it out'.

Are our engines(diesel) going to be happy with this mode of travel?

They'll be very happy and last much longer than those that run constantly at high RPMs.

 

[Alex F]

Alex, here is a picture of my parts manual.

Bill, that's a puzzling move on SR's part. Why would they put a smaller anchor on a vessel with larger LOA? It just makes no sense to me.

The good thing is that you got properly sized anchor.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Today was sea trial and marine survey with haul out for bottom paint next week. We will get full reports on Monday but no big surprises requiring allowance negotiation. I’m expecting buyer acceptance at the first of the week and then it will really sink in that we are selling our beloved 44. It’s been a great boat and I’ve appreciated so much the vast array of knowledge that I’ve been able to tap into here at CSR to keep her in great condition. Soon the next boat will present itself and we will continue to enjoy the yachting life style.
Carpe Diem

 

[Carpediem44DB]

BTW, does anyone see the problem with this prop installation other than it’s time for a cleaning? Surveyor saw it and schooled the yard mechanics today.
Carpe Diem

 

[bbwhitejr]

View attachment 93378
BTW, does anyone see the problem with this prop installation other than it’s time for a cleaning? Surveyor saw it and schooled the yard mechanics today.
Carpe Diem

The small nut goes on first and the big nut is the lock nut....

Bennett

 

[Carpediem44DB]

The small nut goes on first and the big nut is the lock nut....

Bennett

Bingo! Seems counterintuitive to me, Just goes to show how important it is to do your homework and double check “the professionals” work. I’d love to hear the engineering argument for the order of installation of the nuts though.
Carpe Diem

 

[Shaps]

I think this article does a good job explaining the mechanical engineering aspect of small then large.
https://www.followingseas.media/blog/2017/2/8/the-truth-about-prop-nuts-and-why-it-matters

 

[ttmott]

I think this article does a good job explaining the mechanical engineering aspect of small then large.
https://www.followingseas.media/blog/2017/2/8/the-truth-about-prop-nuts-and-why-it-matters

Kinda correct - The half nut when installed and fully torqued sets the clamping force to hold the propeller in place upon the shaft taper. The half nut alone when tightened places very high loads / stresses upon the thread to shaft taper transition. Installing the full nut afterwards and torquing to specification redistributes those stresses to the full nut and the thread acreage further out on the shaft and consequently will reduce the chance of cracking and failing the shaft.
Tom

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Great share! I’m now going to share this with my students!
Carpe Diem

 

[Tomco]

View attachment 93377
Today was sea trial and marine survey with haul out for bottom paint next week. We will get full reports on Monday but no big surprises requiring allowance negotiation. I’m expecting buyer acceptance at the first of the week and then it will really sink in that we are selling our beloved 44. It’s been a great boat and I’ve appreciated so much the vast array of knowledge that I’ve been able to tap into here at CSR to keep her in great condition. Soon the next boat will present itself and we will continue to enjoy the yachting life style.
Carpe Diem

Congrats Rusty! Following your upgrades has been very helpful - thanks! What kind of boat are you looking for?

 

[Carpediem44DB]

Congrats Rusty! Following your upgrades has been very helpful - thanks! What kind of boat are you looking for?

We are succumbing to the 10 foot itch so looking at 53-56 Carver or Navigator pilot house or may even stay with Sea Ray and a Five Forty but they are rare as hen's teeth and my wife wants to carry the dink on the aft bridge and not the transom. Our slip won't accommodate a 50 plus boat with an added platform. Really looking for something with pilot house less than twenty years old.
Carpe Diem

 

[Alex F]

I am pretty confident the engine bulkhead / firewall completely blocks that channel.

Inside the space under the false floor in the ER there are vertical strengtheners where the walkway widens, but it doesn't extend all the way to the hull, so water has the full run from the fore to aft bilge areas.

Here is the construction detail (shown inverted):
View attachment 78050

This is a picture of the lateral strengthener (P098), looking forward from the access hole cut near the aft bilge:

View attachment 78049

Here is a plan view showing the ER bulkhead / firewall and the forward floor assembly:
View attachment 78051

I have a 6-page PDF with the details if anyone wants it. PM me with an email address...

Brian

Brian,

Did you happen to find the source of the water getting into the subfloor?

 

[bajturner]

Brian,

Did you happen to find the source of the water getting into the subfloor?

Hey Alex,
I didn't find a single, smoking-gun source, but I have learned a bit and developed some theories! I think the water gets into these captive areas between and beside the stringers via cracks in the fiberglass filets, limber holes, etc. then travels fore and aft.

I have seen water appear seemingly out of nowhere for a couple of years in the fore and aft engine room bilges. With some detective work over months, I was able to see where it originates.

For example, I would dry the forward engine room bilge then the next day there would be a small puddle in it. After eliminating the thru-hulls, transducer, backwash from the pump, etc. as possible sources, I noticed after everything being dry, there was wetness around the limber hole on the starboard inboard stringer in front of the engine, and a small trickle stain down to the bilge. This water, I believe, was coming from the cavity below and to the starboard side of the washer/dryer. Others have added an access hole here and found water. I haven't added this yet.

The galley bilge had some mystery water appear for a while also. I think water seeps into that aforementioned cavity from the outside, in my case the master shower faucet was leaking for a while and that water must have made its way in. Once in that cavity, it can seep into the filets alongside the stringers and make its way to other bilges and cavities.

The water then comes out limber holes, cracks in the gelcoat inside the hull and subfloors, inside other cavities, and accumulates in the bilge areas.

After eliminating some significant, beginning-of-season leaks (faucet, hot water tank feed) and several slow drips (salon air conditioner condensate floor fitting, port engine aftercooler end cap, generator muffler), and continually removing accumulated water, the amount gradually reduced until there was none. I think the last area that was slow to drain was the area under the washer/dryer. I need to add that access in the spring.

There will always be a little water that appears from time to time. The AC raw water lines and strainer sweat a lot, some water gets in through the cockpit hatch when I wash, etc. but this should all evaporate and disappear fairly quickly rather than continue to pool.

I do think it's important to get all this water under control. Some of it comes out brown suggesting some interaction with wood possibly. At the very least, it causes odor.

That's my take on it so far. Any thoughts on this or anything else you have discovered?

 

[bajturner]

We are succumbing to the 10 foot itch so looking at 53-56 Carver or Navigator pilot house or may even stay with Sea Ray and a Five Forty but they are rare as hen's teeth and my wife wants to carry the dink on the aft bridge and not the transom. Our slip won't accommodate a 50 plus boat with an added platform. Really looking for something with pilot house less than twenty years old.
Carpe Diem

Congrats Carpe, but sad to see you leaving the 44DB world!

 

[bbwhitejr]

Hey Alex,
I didn't find a single, smoking-gun source, but I have learned a bit and developed some theories! I think the water gets into these captive areas between and beside the stringers via cracks in the fiberglass filets, limber holes, etc. then travels fore and aft.

I have seen water appear seemingly out of nowhere for a couple of years in the fore and aft engine room bilges. With some detective work over months, I was able to see where it originates.

For example, I would dry the forward engine room bilge then the next day there would be a small puddle in it. After eliminating the thru-hulls, transducer, backwash from the pump, etc. as possible sources, I noticed after everything being dry, there was wetness around the limber hole on the starboard inboard stringer in front of the engine, and a small trickle stain down to the bilge. This water, I believe, was coming from the cavity below and to the starboard side of the washer/dryer. Others have added an access hole here and found water. I haven't added this yet.

The galley bilge had some mystery water appear for a while also. I think water seeps into that aforementioned cavity from the outside, in my case the master shower faucet was leaking for a while and that water must have made its way in. Once in that cavity, it can seep into the filets alongside the stringers and make its way to other bilges and cavities.

The water then comes out limber holes, cracks in the gelcoat inside the hull and subfloors, inside other cavities, and accumulates in the bilge areas.

After eliminating some significant, beginning-of-season leaks (faucet, hot water tank feed) and several slow drips (salon air conditioner condensate floor fitting, port engine aftercooler end cap, generator muffler), and continually removing accumulated water, the amount gradually reduced until there was none. I think the last area that was slow to drain was the area under the washer/dryer. I need to add that access in the spring.

There will always be a little water that appears from time to time. The AC raw water lines and strainer sweat a lot, some water gets in through the cockpit hatch when I wash, etc. but this should all evaporate and disappear fairly quickly rather than continue to pool.

I do think it's important to get all this water under control. Some of it comes out brown suggesting some interaction with wood possibly. At the very least, it causes odor.

That's my take on it so far. Any thoughts on this or anything else you have discovered?

Great post and I would agree 100% with your analysis of this issue. After 3 years of doing the same thing you have done, I sold the boat and could say it was 98% dry. I never found any water leaking in through the hull. All of my water was from washing, raining, or some type of FW leak/drip.

Bennett

 

[ttmott]

Hey Alex,
I didn't find a single, smoking-gun source, but I have learned a bit and developed some theories! I think the water gets into these captive areas between and beside the stringers via cracks in the fiberglass filets, limber holes, etc. then travels fore and aft.

I have seen water appear seemingly out of nowhere for a couple of years in the fore and aft engine room bilges. With some detective work over months, I was able to see where it originates.

For example, I would dry the forward engine room bilge then the next day there would be a small puddle in it. After eliminating the thru-hulls, transducer, backwash from the pump, etc. as possible sources, I noticed after everything being dry, there was wetness around the limber hole on the starboard inboard stringer in front of the engine, and a small trickle stain down to the bilge. This water, I believe, was coming from the cavity below and to the starboard side of the washer/dryer. Others have added an access hole here and found water. I haven't added this yet.

The galley bilge had some mystery water appear for a while also. I think water seeps into that aforementioned cavity from the outside, in my case the master shower faucet was leaking for a while and that water must have made its way in. Once in that cavity, it can seep into the filets alongside the stringers and make its way to other bilges and cavities.

The water then comes out limber holes, cracks in the gelcoat inside the hull and subfloors, inside other cavities, and accumulates in the bilge areas.

After eliminating some significant, beginning-of-season leaks (faucet, hot water tank feed) and several slow drips (salon air conditioner condensate floor fitting, port engine aftercooler end cap, generator muffler), and continually removing accumulated water, the amount gradually reduced until there was none. I think the last area that was slow to drain was the area under the washer/dryer. I need to add that access in the spring.

There will always be a little water that appears from time to time. The AC raw water lines and strainer sweat a lot, some water gets in through the cockpit hatch when I wash, etc. but this should all evaporate and disappear fairly quickly rather than continue to pool.

I do think it's important to get all this water under control. Some of it comes out brown suggesting some interaction with wood possibly. At the very least, it causes odor.

That's my take on it so far. Any thoughts on this or anything else you have discovered?

From a construction aspect the stringers are the first things installed in the boat's hull during construction and for the most part completely glassed in to the hull from the transom to the bow. Our boats have four stringers. The bulkheads and other structural elements are then installed and glassed around the stringers. Water continuously weeping from a limber hole is concerning as there are virtually no low penetrations into the stringers other than the limbers. SR, by the way, does a horrible job installing and sealing the limber penetrations in the stringers. So I suspect one stringer limber penetration is allowing water to leak in then another is draining it out unless your boat has some other structural damage or layup defect. Secondly, you will find also that SR does a poor job cutting and installing the portlights (windows) in the hulls. Two occasions in two boats I've had to remove the portlights and rebed them as they were leaking water. One instance the portlight in the head allowed water to leak between the hull and head enclosure; it took me a year to track down that leak and, in fact, there were water leaks both in that portlight but also the head exhaust fan discharge clamshell. So, if this helps, you should go ahead and pull the portlights out and re-bed them.....

 

[Alex F]

Brian,
Great post and thanks for sharing your experience.

It's an ongoing challenge. At some point the bilge stayed dry, but not for long. I always had rain water leaks, which I couldn't trace. But, it was very little and never raised a big concern.

The biggest question is always, is it a fresh or sea water? For the most part, in my case it was fresh water, due to rain water leak(s). But, on occasion, I had some deposit of sea water. Changing rudder packing helped solving the sea water leaks.

I never had any water by washer/dryer. My fresh water plumbing was in pretty good shape for years, after I addressed couple small leaks.

Tom,
Interesting point on portlights. I actually swapped mine with a porthole to add natural ventilation to VIP stateroom. No leaks were observed in that area.

The newly developed puddle is sea water. I suspect that sealant on transducers or seacocks is starting to show the age. I wonder if many people have redid theirs by now.

I get the issue with stringers and limber holes, but the subfloor in the center of ER is a puzzling one. I don't see how water can enter in there. Installing inspection plate could be a good idea, but if the water keeps entering the cavity, it's obviously important to find the source.

 

[Tomco]

This water, I believe, was coming from the cavity below and to the starboard side of the washer/dryer. Others have added an access hole here and found water. I haven't added this yet.

I added this inspection hatch (washer/dryer area) in Aug and the space was dry. Was surprised to find water in the space when we were closing up a couple weeks ago. Interesting thought (but unsettling) if it is weeping its way along the stringer. I also have a small amount of water in the forward ER bilge but I think I've traced mine to a small leak on the port strainer basket, which I plan to remove and reseal in the spring.

I have one spot in the ER with some brown staining, which is at a corner in the starboard channel just aft of the ER fresh water tap, that would support your theory of water weeping along the stringer. This is why I added the inspection hatch in front of the water heater. This has seemingly dried up since we bought the boat but I can now keep an eye on it.

Haven't yet added the hatch in the ER center area yet ... a spring time project.

 

[JNMNL52]

Hi Alex: Today I experienced a problem on line 1 of my AC electrical system. I was at anchor on battery and started the genset to prepare for my return trip back tp my slip. I noticed that the voltage on line i was 62 volts and line 2 read normally at 120vac. No items on the line 1 line could be powered. After I got situated back in my slip I plugged in shore power and line 1 functioned normally at 120 VAC. I cycled all CB's and solenoids in the salon, transom hatch back and in the covered box in the bilge without any change. It is interesting that I am getting one-half the voltage output from the genset only on line 1 and no issue when on shore power. Do you have any ideas or suggestions?
John
2006 44 DB