410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread**

[Jay400EC]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

All good, replaced impeller kits.

 

[Searaybio270]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Posted in Gas engines/drives/Trans/Props

 

[Chitimacha]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Can we add the 440DA or is there another place for this one

Thanks
darrell

 

[h_gerry]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

All good, replaced impeller kits.

Glad to hear it was a simple fix. Enjoy the weekend.

 

[Warren]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

You may have done this job by now but here was my fix in 2008. Not an easy task but remove the original tank by demolition - cutting it into pieces with a Sawzall and then installing a shiny new all-stainless ISOTEMP Slim 15 tank which can be easily maneuvered into position. Expensive but a permanent fix.

On our boat the location is aft of the Westerbeke generator to starboard and space is very limited.

Good luck,
Warren

 

[h_gerry]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

You may have done this job by now but here was my fix in 2008. Not an easy task but remove the original tank by demolition - cutting it into pieces with a Sawzall and then installing a shiny new all-stainless ISOTEMP Slim 15 tank which can be easily maneuvered into position. Expensive but a permanent fix.

On our boat the location is aft of the Westerbeke generator to starboard and space is very limited.

Good luck,
Warren

Thanks Warren. I have disconnected and drained the HWH but have not removed the electrical connections yet. The tank is still in place and I still can't tell how to get it out or a new one in. For anyone with a 400EC who relocated the tank, where did you put it? If one port side, do you have an issue with the boat listing? I really don't want to pull the motor just to replace the water heater.....

 

[EKM]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

you should be able to remove the cover around the hot water tank and then remove it in pieces. I did the same job and the 11g tank (cylinder) could be put in place and then build the cover around it. From what I remember, the cover was spot welded and with the ends off, could be flattened like a pancake and then the cover could be put in place. Once in the location, re-assemble it.
Regards,
Ed

 

[Air O'Nautical]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Thanks Warren. I have disconnected and drained the HWH but have not removed the electrical connections yet. The tank is still in place and I still can't tell how to get it out or a new one in. For anyone with a 400EC who relocated the tank, where did you put it? If one port side, do you have an issue with the boat listing? I really don't want to pull the motor just to replace the water heater.....

The easy place to relocate the water heater is the empty shelf right in front of the Gens. battery that's very close to the center line of the boat.

The old heaters not coming out without pulling the engine....there's no room to work on it.
If you try to cut it up in place and remove it in scrap pieces, the work involved is more than pulling the starboard engine (that could be done in a few hours).

I'd pull the engine..but, having pulled both 2 years ago I'm familiar with how to do it.

 

[h_gerry]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

The easy place to relocate the water heater is the empty shelf right in front of the Gens. battery that's very close to the center line of the boat.

The old heaters not coming out without pulling the engine....there's no room to work on it.
If you try to cut it up in place and remove it in scrap pieces, the work involved is more than pulling the starboard engine (that could be done in a few hours).

I'd pull the engine..but, having pulled both 2 years ago I'm familiar with how to do it.

Thanks Mark. That is the space I was considering. My spare props are there now but that would be an easy item to move to the old HWH location.
I have been debating having the engine pulled to remove and replace the heater so that I can have other things done at the same time like having all the hoses replaced, check integrity of oil pan and gaskets, change shaft seal, etc. I would love to do it myself, but I know that I would never be able to get it done. I will need to see what my marina would charge for it.

 

[h_gerry]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

you should be able to remove the cover around the hot water tank and then remove it in pieces. I did the same job and the 11g tank (cylinder) could be put in place and then build the cover around it. From what I remember, the cover was spot welded and with the ends off, could be flattened like a pancake and then the cover could be put in place. Once in the location, re-assemble it.
Regards,
Ed

Thanks Ed. Just realized I did not respond. I will take another look at the existing heater and see if I can get the cover off and take out the pieces. Thanks.

 

[TerjeG]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Hi guys, and happy new year!

I've a 2000 410 EC, and will spend some time during winter to have a better understanding of the electrical system in the boat. I need to correct a few minor issues, and maybe also replace some of the electronic equipment. I replaced all batteries last spring, but have a periodic problem with the aft battery bank being drained. Everything seem to work fine, but when I leave the boat for a week or so, the voltage has dropped to 8-9v. I've removed all the battery connections to start to investigate what cause the problem, but do any of you have an overview of how the load is spread / distributed between the two battery banks (which equipment is connected to which battery bank)?

 

[HUMPH]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Hi guys, and happy new year!

I've a 2000 410 EC, and will spend some time during winter to have a better understanding of the electrical system in the boat. I need to correct a few minor issues, and maybe also replace some of the electronic equipment. I replaced all batteries last spring, but have a periodic problem with the aft battery bank being drained. Everything seem to work fine, but when I leave the boat for a week or so, the voltage has dropped to 8-9v. I've removed all the battery connections to start to investigate what cause the problem, but do any of you have an overview of how the load is spread / distributed between the two battery banks (which equipment is connected to which battery bank)?

Welcome to the thread. You have 3 banks, port engine and house, starboard engine and helm, generator start. Is it your house bank that gets low? If so, do you leave your charger converter breaker on when on shore power? If you do, you may need a new charger as they do wear out eventually. If you don't, your batteries are running your refrigerators while at the dock.

 

[TerjeG]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Thanks Ken

The problem has been that I need to use the emergency switch at the dash to start starboard engine, but equipment below deck work fine. I forgot the generator battery yes, so it's number 3 and 4 (starboard) if the parts manual is correct. As English is not my first language, and I'm not that familiar with all expressions; is "helm" all equipment / accessories operated from the steering position, and "house" all equipment operated from the saloon / distribution panel below deck? I always switch off all equipment before leaving the boat.

As I don't use the shore power all the time, and as my problem didn't start before the last weeks before taking the boat out of water, I haven't really checked if the charger works as it should. Should the switches for both batteries / solenoides be switched on (energized) when charging both batteries, and have you seen situations where one of the outputs from the charger doesn't work?

I've noticed that the the light in the rocker switch for the windlass always stays on. The windlass wotks fine, but it doesn't matter wether or not the main switch is on or off. Could it be a relay that's blown and drain the battery? Do you know if/where such relay is located?

Regards Terje

 

[ybmtnt]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Cat 3116TA 350BHP in a 1997 Sea Ray 400 Sundancer

I´m about to buy a 1997 Sea Ray 400 (40ft) Sundancer with a pair of Caterpillar 3116TA 350BHP diesel engines, with each doing about 470 hours, and a Westerbeke 7.6KW genset with 800 original hours (but rewound 12 months ago - less than 70 hours since). I'm buying the boat in Ft. Lauderdale Florida and shipping it to Trinidad.

The current owner recently installed a new Turbo on the Port engine, with the original Turbo still on the Starboard engine. He also recently had the fuel tanks cleaned and will be doing filter change-outs in a couple days (as recommended by tank cleaning vendor).

Will be conducting both a Hull & Engine survey this coming week, along with Sea Trials. The engine room is clean, with no sightings of oil residue or anything out of the ordinary. The engines started easily and idles smoothly, with no sign of smoke.

This is my first time with inboard diesel engines, having upgraded from a 32ft Chris Craft with twin 2-stroke 250HP Yamaha outboards.

The boat is in immaculate condition both inside and outside, and I have found the owner to be very ANAL about how he maintains the vessel, as is evidenced with the maintenance paperwork he keeps and the overall look of the vessel. The boat spends most of its time in a fresh water canal at a dock at the back of the owners home. The canal is fed from Lake Okeechobee, Florida with the occasional run to the Bahamas or the Florida Keys.

Any advice on what I should look for during the Sea Trials, what I should direct the surveyor to pay particular attention too, especially with these 3116 engines?

This may be the wrong forum regarding my overall questions, but I am a newbie at this so any help would be greatly appreciated?

Happy New Year to All, and Best Regards,

 

[fwebster]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

The 3116 is free from the defects frequently discussed on this and other forums. At 470 hours you are well past the time that the one known issue would come up if it existed. From there, the Cat 3116 is a great engine, but like all other diesels, they do not tolerate overloading or overheating well. Maintain them as Caterpillar recommends and they will give you years of good service. Make sure the engines turn up to rated rpm's of 2800 on your sea trial. You should find the 3116 to be a clean burning and smoke free….more so than some later Sea Rays with common rail diesels from another maker. The 3116 is also very easy to maintain and care for. The one critical maintenance item for these engines at their age and hours is to be certain that the owner had the 250 service done…….that service includes resetting the valves and the injector timing and it is important. If it has not been done, get it done now before running or shipping the boat. (Note: this is about 8 hours work for a Cat mechanic and requires special tools and gauges and will cost about $1200.)

For the hull part of your due diligence, a surveyor will sound the hull with a phenolic hammer to look for voids….this is a solid hull boat, so there is no hull core exposure. However, the entire deck cap is cored. Have the surveyor check for moisture around any place the deck has been cut or drilled for mounting anything like the windlass, windshield, stanchions, hand holds, foot switches, etc.

The 400/410DA's are great boats and there is no systemic problem with them or their construction so if you get a clean hull survey, you can expect to get good service out of the boat.


Good luck with your surveys…………...

 

[ybmtnt]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Frank,

Thanks for the uplifting note of assurance on the engines. I will be sure to ask the owner if the 250 hour service was performed. I am having Tim Caruso of Marine Diesel Analysts, Inc ( http://www.catenginesurveyor.com/index.html ) come and conduct an engine survey on the Cat's for me. Hopefully that should greatly reduce any hidden issues the engines may have.

 

[ybmtnt]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Frank,

The serial numbers for the Caterpillar 3116TA Engines on the Sea Ray 400 Sundancer that I am interested in buying are:

Port engine 4KG05854.

Starboard engine 4KG05052

Both engines are doing approx. 470 hours each

Where or how do you check these SN´s to determine if they are good or from the BAD batch? Is there a web site you go to, or is it a call into Caterpillar?

 

[fwebster]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

The 3116's had no bad batch from Caterpillar. The 3126 did suffer from some soft blocks, but not the 3116. The litmus test on the soft block issue is a blow by test done by a Caterpillar technician to determine how much if any combustion gas is getting into the crankcase. Since this boat has 3116's, you do not have this problem.

The only issue ever affecting the 3116 was a few valves from a supplier that had the wrong metallurgy. Cat's manufacturing process never tracked the valves received by lot and they never knew which heads had them installed so there is no serial number record of the engines affected. But………that doesn't matter because the bad valves all failed within the first 125 to 150 running hours. Since your engines are well past that, they cannot have the bad valves.

 

[The Bill Collector]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

On my boat this was a blown fuse on the windlass relay located on the firewall in my engine room. This blown fuse caused my windlass to always stay on.

I've noticed that the the light in the rocker switch for the windlass always stays on. The windlass wotks fine, but it doesn't matter wether or not the main switch is on or off. Could it be a relay that's blown and drain the battery? Do you know if/where such relay is located?

Regards Terje[/QUOTE]

 

[ybmtnt]

Re: 410 Sundancer/Express Cruiser and 400 Sundancer/Express Cruiser **Official Thread

Frank,

Thanks for clarifying the 3116 vs 3126 "Soft Block" issue. I have also been advised, that based on the Serial Numbers of my engines I should not have any other issues as has been reported in this as well as other forums, except what may be expected from improper maintenance by the PO. I have contracted the services of Tim Caruso of Marine Diesel Analysts Inc. to conduct complete engine surveys and Sea Trials, which hopefully would put to final rest any apprehensions I may have.

Thanks again for your learned advice.