400DB Upgrade Went South – Buyers Be Aware

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alex F, Dec 6, 2010.

  1. douglee25

    douglee25 Active Member

    Jan 13, 2008
    NJ
    Cabrio
    Volvo Drivetrain
    Why not give it another week or two and give the broker a call and say exactly the above? Maybe it still could happen?

    Doug
     
  2. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    The $32K was the total estimate to address everything form the survey report. But, I'm very realistic and I never expected them to give me $32K break. Actually, after about a week the broker called me and said that they don't even know where to begin after receiving this number. They thought they had a perfect boat....LOL.

    Long story short, I gave them vessel acceptance with the following conditions (this was my final word):

    1) $7K (instead of $30K) credit from seller
    2) $4K credit from broker for canvas (agreement was already made on this)
    3) One warking day for broker's mechanic (agreement was already made on this).

    Here's another quick detail to show how stupid the broker was. They had $13K invested in the boat by performing all monthly services (incl. starage), so I was told that if they lose this deal and the bank takes the boat they may not see anything from $13K or a fraction settlement on it.

    So, becides making $0 on commissions they now at risk loosing another $13K. I don't know what kind of heads running this firm but, IMO it was no brainer at all.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  3. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Doug,

    Your suggestion is right on the money. And guess what, I gave them over TWO weeks. Don't forget, this thing was dragging for month and a half.

    Thanks Todd,

    I feel comfortable with my decision and have no regrets.

    I don't mean to make it look like we're beating a dead horse here, but I just wanted to share my story and provide enough info to our CSR members to stay alert and avoid getting in to similar situation in case if someone has interest on this boat or anything that's being sold by Sovereign Marine Group.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  4. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
    Actually there was only a $2k difference, you've got to pay for another round of surveys.
     
  5. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    As long as it's for the boat I love, I don't care :grin:.

    With all the items piling up on this boat it went from "I rally like it", to "I still like it", to ..."I don't know if I like it that much"....... to "It's not worth it, forget it".
     
  6. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2004 C14 Caribe
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    Technically, at least here, the broker that has possesion of the vessel can keep it until the owner (bank) pays all costs owed on the storage and maintenance of the boat. They should have lien rights so maybe that shows even more how dumb he is?
     
  7. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    If a boat goes in to REPO stage the bank will most likelly fight to get most they can and will be settling with any lean holder. This is where $13K may turn in to $5K-$7K. At least this is how I see it, but I could be wrong.
     
  8. HUMPH

    HUMPH Well-Known Member PLATINUM Sponsor

    Nov 4, 2009
    SF BAY AREA
    2003 410DA,
    2004 C14 Caribe
    CAT 3126TA's 350HP/
    50HP Honda
    That is true, everything is negotiable!
     
  9. Turtlesboat

    Turtlesboat Minister of Media TECHNICAL Contributor GOLD Sponsor

    Feb 4, 2007
    New York City
    1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
    3126 427HP TD transmissions
    So... by not doing this deal, they will come out ahead. They get most of their money and they don't have to pay someone to work or buy parts to fix the boat or buy a new canvas.

    If they were to do your deal, $4k for the canvas, $5k to fix the boat, or more.

    So by doing the deal they will take in $4k of their storage. By not doing the deal they will take in $7k of their storage with the potential of the full $13k Plus Commission if they sell the boat to someone else. Doesn't seem so dumb to me.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  10. fwebster

    fwebster Well-Known Member TECHNICAL Contributor PLATINUM Sponsor

    Oct 6, 2006
    Middle Tennessee ; Panama City Beach, FL
    1996 450DA
    3116 Caterpillars
    Everyone is assuming that the broker is providing the storage. Typically in that area, a broker just leases space........a few slips.......in a large marina. The broker may have included the slip to get the listing on the boat, in which case the broker has no leverage other than kicking the boat out. Or, the slip may be leased from the real property owner. If that is the case, he has the storage lien, not the broker. Either way, the broker has no, or very little, leverage.

    It looks more and more like there is a short sighted guy in a $2000 suit at a bank somewhere making decisions. If that is the case, you may have one last huge thing in your favor..........banks whose fiscal year falls the same as the calendar year usually try to clean up non-performing loans and take whatever write-off they have to take right at the end of the year in order to take losses now rather than carryover a bad loan into the next year. I'd probably be caught making one last full court press to get to the decision maker and try to make a deal that suits you both.
     
  11. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Mike,

    If you refer to the borker, then I think you've mixed the $5K for repairs. All I asked for the broker is $4K, which they agreed. If I gave them any work to fix the boat they have all the profit. They also could have make few bucks from my over winter storage fees and other services (monthly system check, diver and wax).

    I was told that the bank gave the owner final notice where the date matched the expiration date of my contract. So, it interesting to see how they going to find a better buyer now with extra presure from the bank on taking the boat.

    I also want to mention that the bank wasn't kidding. For the first time I saw the boat literaly chained (by broker) to the dock, so the owner or the bank won't physically move it.

    This boat was apperantly for sale for over a year. With their new "scheme" (no name) she's been sitting for a while and I was the first serious buyer. So, time will show how "intelligent" their decision is.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2010
  12. kg4vgh

    kg4vgh New Member

    145
    Dec 30, 2006
    Hampton Roads, VA
    340 Sundancer
    Ratheon Radar, SH 1200C, SH 3500S, AIS,
    T-350's with V-drive
    Very wel written Alex, Thank you for sharing.....sorry for all your difficulties......The information you provided was excellent and came at a very good time, Admiral and I will be upsizing this summer....
    Cheers and good luck
    Pete
     
  13. bmac

    bmac Active Member

    Jan 11, 2008
    Holbrook, NY
    2006 58 Sedan Bridge, Walker Bay Generation 390 RIB w/40hp Yamaha, 2014 Wellcraft 232 CC w/Yamaha
    MAN 900 CRM
    Geez, Alex, that sounds like marriage. :smt021
     
  14. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    :smt043Thanks Brian :smt043

    I guess, the only excuse I have, is that my wife is on the same page with me here. But, from time to time she does complain that I spend way too much time when it comes to a boat. But, so far I was able to find the balance. :thumbsup:
     
  15. bmac

    bmac Active Member

    Jan 11, 2008
    Holbrook, NY
    2006 58 Sedan Bridge, Walker Bay Generation 390 RIB w/40hp Yamaha, 2014 Wellcraft 232 CC w/Yamaha
    MAN 900 CRM
    Alex

    I hear ya. Having her on the same page is helpful, but in my case is now just adding to the confusion of what to do. As you know, I'm thinking of a 52 DB but last week she said that maybe a 58 DB was a better long term solution. This next one will probably be the last boat I buy so I'm really focused on the long term this time. We're debating the house/boat for Florida versus just a boat to live aboard during winter in Florida, returning north with it every spring. We'll still maintain a residence in NY, but retirement is still 5-10 years away, so I'm not convinced I'm at a point where I need to make a decision. At the same time, my boat is in very sellable condition, interest rates are low and there's still alot of bigger boats on the market that provide good value. You know how much goes in to the decision to move up and this is the first time I've struggeld with it. Good luck with your search.
     
  16. Alex F

    Alex F Active Member SILVER Sponsor

    Nov 14, 2006
    East Coast
    2005 420DB with AB 11 DLX Tender, Raymarine Dual E120 MFD/Radar/XMWeather, ST7001 A/P, AIS, SeaLift
    T-Cummins 450Cs Straight-Drives, 9KW Onan Generator, 40HP Yamaha for tender.
    Brian,

    I'm pretty sure your puzzle is something many people went through. I also have similar dream to be able to spend winter time in FL either on a large boat or just have some property with a boat. Obviously, individual financial situation drives the decision. But, as we all know, location is a huge factor. If you know exactly where you want to stay it makes it easier. Otherwise, I wouldn't commit without knowing for sure you like a location. This is where being on the boat helps. If you don't like the place you can simply move to a different place.

    I usually try to follow basic approach which is, if I'm not sure I don't do it. The time might be your best helper to place all the ducks in a raw. Your current boat is very comfortable for you and will hold the value for a while, so I don't think it makes a big difference to sell it now or a year from now.

    To give you better advice I would need more details. It might be a good idea to open a thread on this and see if you can get feedback from folks that went this route and see what they can recommend.

    You can always PM or email me to discuss the details.

    Good luck with your decision,
    Alex.
     
  17. gattlenn1

    gattlenn1 Member

    55
    May 23, 2009
    venice, fl
    330 EC
    454 Horizons
    well,......she has finally surfaced !

    I called the 'used car sales' broker no fewer than 7 x's ! I even drove to Jupiter to inspect the boat,....only to be told
    that it couldn't be shown due to an 'illness' in the family !

    Fortunately for me, I drove from Venice,Fl. and didn't have a
    great deal of expense in my trip.

    I became aware of this via a fellow CSR member, and was on it prior to the ebay listing.

    In fact, his rudeness and apparent 'shadiness' made me realize that there was much more to this story than what was being told!

    Glad you walked away!

    Ed
     

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