2009 310 Sundancer engine hatch wont open

B

Brando99

Member
Feb 18, 2014
85
Canyon Lake, Texas
Boat Info
2011 Meridian 391
Engines
Twin Cummins 5.9 QSB 380hp
My 2009 310 sundancer engine hatch wont open. When I push the up button nothing happens. When I push the down button I can hear the motor run. Also the anchor windless up/down which is next to the hatch lift buttons, does not work either. Everything else on the control pad is working. Definitely not the batteries. They are only 8 months old. The boat is connected to shore power all of the time. I was at the boat yesterday and the hatch lift worked perfect. Today, nothing :(
IMG_2317.JPG
 
Brando99 said:
My 2009 310 sundancer engine hatch wont open. When I push the up button nothing happens. When I push the down button I can hear the motor run. Also the anchor windless up/down which is next to the hatch lift buttons, does not work either. Everything else on the control pad is working. Definitely not the batteries. They are only 8 months old. The boat is connected to shore power all of the time. I was at the boat yesterday and the hatch lift worked perfect. Today, nothing :(View attachment 82888
Click to expand...

Since the breaker (on the forward ER bulkhead) isn’t tripped as you’re getting power in the down position, I would wonder if you’re keypad/EIM may be failing? Mine have never misbehaved but the fact that you have other buttons that also appear to be affected makes me think it’s a possibility. As I understand, they become intermittent when they start to fail.

In order to lift the hatch manually, you’ll need to pull the pins (access ports hidden in hatch lid) on each and the attempt to lift it with the help of (many) friends. I suggest having a few pieces of lumber handy to prop it up as the lifting begins...it’s a beast.
 
stephenm27 said:
Since the breaker (on the forward ER bulkhead) isn’t tripped as you’re getting power in the down position, I would wonder if you’re keypad/EIM may be failing? Mine have never misbehaved but the fact that you have other buttons that also appear to be affected makes me think it’s a possibility. As I understand, they become intermittent when they start to fail.

In order to lift the hatch manually, you’ll need to pull the pins (access ports hidden in hatch lid) on each and the attempt to lift it with the help of (many) friends. I suggest having a few pieces of lumber handy to prop it up as the lifting begins...it’s a beast.
Click to expand...
stephenm27 said:
Since the breaker (on the forward ER bulkhead) isn’t tripped as you’re getting power in the down position, I would wonder if you’re keypad/EIM may be failing? Mine have never misbehaved but the fact that you have other buttons that also appear to be affected makes me think it’s a possibility. As I understand, they become intermittent when they start to fail.

In order to lift the hatch manually, you’ll need to pull the pins (access ports hidden in hatch lid) on each and the attempt to lift it with the help of (many) friends. I suggest having a few pieces of lumber handy to prop it up as the lifting begins...it’s a beast.
Click to expand...
I couldn’t find a spot to get to the pins to manually lift it today. I am also thinking it might be the keypad also.
 
Brando99 said:
I couldn’t find a spot to get to the pins to manually lift it today. I am also thinking it might be the keypad also.
Click to expand...

One port is in the shore power compartment and the other is in the aft under-seat storage just inside the transom door. You may want to start stretching exercises now...
 
stephenm27 said:
One port is in the shore power compartment and the other is in the aft under-seat storage just inside the transom door. You may want to start stretching exercises now...
Click to expand...
I found the access ports. Is there 1 pin or 2? Also, how do I even attempt to lift it? I have the help, just not sure how to lift it
 
Brando99 said:
I found the access ports. Is there 1 pin or 2? Also, how do I even attempt to lift it? I have the help, just not sure how to lift it
Click to expand...
There’s a single pin on each actuator. Hopefully you still have enough play in the setup to be able to remove the pin. It will depend on how much pushing of the down button you have done (understandable given the circumstances) as to whether the pin is under load.

As for lifting, I’d look for a structurally-suitable overhead attachment point that a pulley could possibly help with. Maybe a 2x6 across the gunwales.

I’m not certain the strongest point on the hatch to attach to but I would probably rig something up under the forward seat...perhaps a 4x4 placed under the lip with an eye-hook in the middle. If you use something across the gunwales, you can remove the table base socket and use the hole to insert a “cross piece” to lift using a chain or strap.

If humans are doing the lifting, I don’t know if there’s enough space for all the hands, or where they can actually grab. I think the actuators are rated at 500lb/each though that’s somewhat misleading—but even if they’re 50% overrated you still have your hands full.

I have yet to face this challenge—but I have tried to prepare an approach when/if I do. This usually results from a dead battery and thus doesn’t require manual lifting of the lid. That’s solvable by charging through the 12v socket at the helm. Unfortunately a failing EIM isn’t quite as simple...
 
stephenm27 said:
There’s a single pin on each actuator. Hopefully you still have enough play in the setup to be able to remove the pin. It will depend on how much pushing of the down button you have done (understandable given the circumstances) as to whether the pin is under load.

As for lifting, I’d look for a structurally-suitable overhead attachment point that a pulley could possibly help with. Maybe a 2x6 across the gunwales.

I’m not certain the strongest point on the hatch to attach to but I would probably rig something up under the forward seat...perhaps a 4x4 placed under the lip with an eye-hook in the middle. If you use something across the gunwales, you can remove the table base socket and use the hole to insert a “cross piece” to lift using a chain or strap.

If humans are doing the lifting, I don’t know if there’s enough space for all the hands, or where they can actually grab. I think the actuators are rated at 500lb/each though that’s somewhat misleading—but even if they’re 50% overrated you still have your hands full.

I have yet to face this challenge—but I have tried to prepare an approach when/if I do. This usually results from a dead battery and thus doesn’t require manual lifting of the lid. That’s solvable by charging through the 12v socket at the helm. Unfortunately a failing EIM isn’t quite as simple...
Click to expand...
Thanks for the help. We will try to get it opened tomorrow.
 
stephenm27 said:
Let me know if you need pictures of the pins, etc...working blind can be fun.
Click to expand...
stephenm27 said:
Let me know if you need pictures of the pins, etc...working blind can be fun.
Click to expand...
Pictures would be a great help! I was able to grab 1 pin (center). I guess I didn't feel around enough for the pin through the shore power access
 
Starboard actuator, viewed from centerline (stern is to the right, bow to the left). Access port is visible above the blue water line.
uc


Port actuator, viewed looking aft (starboard to left, port to right):
uc


Note that I also took the opportunity to attempt to "weigh" the hatch using a hydraulic tongue scale. My experience suggests a required lifting force of at least 180 lbs, but probably closer to 300 lbs at the front edge of the lid. The port side that you can access is significantly lighter than the starboard side (presumably due to side seating structure).

I did not figure out a non-destructive way to fashion a handle for lifting...
 
Yours in very close to mine Stephenm27. I went and looked at it, and the starboard side would be very difficult to get to the pin. I'm not sure why they do that.
Mine also has a "leg" to rest it on when raised.
1.jpg
 
wyrman said:
Yours in very close to mine Stephenm27. I went and looked at it, and the starboard side would be very difficult to get to the pin. I'm not sure why they do that.
Mine also has a "leg" to rest it on when raised
Click to expand...

The starboard pin would definitely be an arm-stretcher.

Worse yet, I just noted that, even when fully closed, my starboard pin still has load on it (couldn't be pulled) when the actuator is fully retracted. I will be addressing this before I'm facing the challenge Brando99 currently is...
 
stephenm27 said:
Starboard actuator, viewed from centerline (stern is to the right, bow to the left). Access port is visible above the blue water line.
uc


Port actuator, viewed looking aft (starboard to left, port to right):
uc


Note that I also took the opportunity to attempt to "weigh" the hatch using a hydraulic tongue scale. My experience suggests a required lifting force of at least 180 lbs, but probably closer to 300 lbs at the front edge of the lid. The port side that you can access is significantly lighter than the starboard side (presumably due to side seating structure).

I did not figure out a non-destructive way to fashion a handle for lifting...
Click to expand...
Awesome! Thank you for the pictures. I'll let you know how it goes. Hopefully will have it done tomorrow or Saturday.
 
stephenm27 said:
The starboard pin would definitely be an arm-stretcher.

Worse yet, I just noted that, even when fully closed, my starboard pin still has load on it (couldn't be pulled) when the actuator is fully retracted. I will be addressing this before I'm facing the challenge Brando99 currently is...
Click to expand...
My starboard side is a tad faster than the port, so I have to run it a second more for the port side to close all the way.
I could see mine being tight on the starboard side also. Not sure what to do about it though.
 
Tight/pressure on the pin: On the ones I've lifted before, the top of the hydraulic arm is not really completely "tight". It slides. So if you lift the hatch (as mentioned, remove table mount and use a cross piece) enough to put a couple 2x's under the lip of the hatch in a couple areas, then let the hatch back down onto the 2x's, that takes all the weight of the hatch off the pins making them easier to remove.
 
Lazy Daze said:
Tight/pressure on the pin: On the ones I've lifted before, the top of the hydraulic arm is not really completely "tight". It slides. So if you lift the hatch (as mentioned, remove table mount and use a cross piece) enough to put a couple 2x's under the lip of the hatch in a couple areas, then let the hatch back down onto the 2x's, that takes all the weight of the hatch off the pins making them easier to remove.
Click to expand...
You are correct, the upper mounts are indeed made with a slide joint. However, the actuator should not be carrying load when full retracted as it distorts the hatch and probably isn’t great for the gear mechanism. I’m going to evaluate the actuator mount to see if I can lower it a bit...
 
I think I read a thread sometime back where some were adding an alternate power source to the actuators so that if they had a failure, either battery or switch pad, they could supply 12v directly to the actuators and lift the hatch. It is something done before you have the problem as stated above. Have any of you done this?
 
What you do is locate the actuator motor, splice into it an additional feed routed to a convenient area topside where you can connect jumpers
 
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