2000/2001 380DA thoughts, opinions, reviews

[fwebster]

Well said, and agreed. I think I am done with gas, given the issues I have seen in the last 3 - 4 I have inspected and surveyed. I am not convinced, at all, they cost any more to maintain/service at this point.



Are you calling me a giraffe? ;-)

Who me? I would never do that……!

 

[Nauti 97]

I also have a 380 with 7.4 Horizons.
My wife and I love the boat.
The performance is great.
I slip in a Marina on a river with a lot of current. Docking it is not an issue.
I also am 5’ 10” and clearance at the Helm is very nice.
My son is 6’3” and has no issues.
Diesel or Gas either one is good. I would look at the 3 for sure but I would also look at gas as well. Probably can get a nicer condition, more updated gas for less money.

 

[mrsrobinson]

@Chris-380 did that include all of the beer?

My 2001 Regal 3780 had twin 7.4s MPI. They got her up on plane, I had to run at 3500+ RPMs to keep her up. My preference is still the CATs all else equal, and spending $15Kish more at this point in my "boating career". Plus I want to learn more about diesels and do the maintenance myself.

@quality time good feedback, especially having owned a 330DA myself as well.

 

[Stee6043]

@Chris-380 did that include all of the beer?

My 2001 Regal 3780 has twin 7.4s MPI. They got her up on plane, I had to run at 3500+ RPMs to keep her up. My preference is still the CATs all else equal, and spending 15K more at this point in my "boating career".

@quality time good feedback, especially having owned a 330DA myself as well.

You can't compare a Regal to a Sea Ray With tabs I can keep my boat on plane all the way down to 17kts +/-, 2600 rpm if I recall correctly...

 

[Chris-380]

And you can imagine how much beer 13 construction guys take for the day

@Chris-380 did that include all of the beer?

My 2001 Regal 3780 had twin 7.4s MPI. They got her up on plane, I had to run at 3500+ RPMs to keep her up. My preference is still the CATs all else equal, and spending $15Kish more at this point in my "boating career". Plus I want to learn more about diesels and do the maintenance myself.

@quality time good feedback, especially having owned a 330DA myself as well.

 

[mrsrobinson]

You can't compare a Regal to a Sea Ray With tabs I can keep my boat on plane all the way down to 17kts +/-, 2600 rpm if I recall correctly...

Ok, Ok, you got me ;-)

I remember my 330DA with carbed 7.4s and V drives even trimmed was always bow high, felt like it was plowing thru the water, and I had to run them at 3400+ RPMs.

 

[Stee6043]

Ok, Ok, you got me ;-)

I remember my 330DA with carbed 7.4s and V drives even trimmed was always bow high, felt like it was plowing thru the water, and I had to run them at 3400+ RPMs.

I've said it in other posts - my gas 400 runs far better (attitude) than my 340 did with the same power package. The 400 has more weight forward and feels perfectly balanced (to me). My 340 would come off plane at a much higher speed than my 400 will...

 

[Carver370]

I have a friend with a gas 7.4L 1997 400 Sundancer that I sold him last year. I am always amazed at how much less tab it take him to get his bow down while at cruise vs my diesel 400. I do have a dinghy hanging off the back when traveling but it does seem like he can shove his bow in the water much further than mine.

That will all change when I do the tunnel tabs this winter..... I think.

 

[mrsrobinson]

I have a friend with a gas 7.4L 1997 400 Sundancer that I sold him last year. I am always amazed at how much less tab it take him to get his bow down while at cruise vs my diesel 400. I do have a dinghy hanging off the back when traveling but it does seem like he can shove his bow in the water much further than mine.

That will all change when I do the tunnel tabs this winter..... I think.

So you moved from a 1997 gas 400DA to a 2000 diesel 400DA? If yes, I am curious why.

I am pretty locked in on a 380DA with diesels if I can find a good one. I am curious to hear what everyone is saying about the 7.4s though.

 

[Carver370]

So you moved from a 1997 gas 400DA to a 2000 diesel 400DA? If yes, I am curious why.

I am pretty locked in on a 380DA with diesels if I can find a good one. I am curious to hear what everyone is saying about the 7.4s though.

I did not own a gas 400, I am a broker and sold a customers gas 400 to him. He was specifically looking for a gas boat since he is familiar with big block racing engines etc.

 

[Strecker25]

Talked to the broker on this one:

https://www.boats.com/power-boats/2000-sea-ray-380-sundancer-8001030/

Current owners have had it for 3 years, it's their first boat. Everyone scared them into buying a smaller gas boat because it will "explode". Boat was recently under contract with first time buyers as well. Mechanical (not by CAT) survey scared them because they were told it's at 1000 hours, the aftercoolers need to be done, so they walked. Oil samples were good by CAT. Seller will do the aftercoolers or let the buyer do them and reduce the price.

Port V Drive is brand new. Isinglass is all new. Exterior Upholstery is all new. Selling because the wife wants a bigger boat. Broker said over and over "it's a good boat". All of the systems/mechanicals (AC, refrigerator, hot water heater, etc.) are original to the boat.

What is the aftercooler service going to run for both engines?

I upgraded the intercooler on my BMW 335i N54 myself (went bigger). Is this the same as an aftercooler on a turbo/diesel boat, only the air is cooled with water like a marine gas engine heat exchanger? If yes, what do they do with the service?

AC service is a relatively simple R&R and while they’re off you take them to a radiator shop familiar with caterpillar aftercoolers to be boiled, stripped, pressure tested, and fully cleaned of any built up internal oil. They’ll need to be painted before you reinstall and you’ll need a new gasket. You should also replace the turbo to aftercooler hose and any other hoses and clamps you have access to while it’s off. The local radiator shop charged me a couple hundred bucks for both

that being said, if you pay cat to do it it’s probably at least a half day and maybe even a full so figure $1500-2000 plus travel.

Even paying someone to do this service doesn’t seem like a reason to walk from a boat. Maybe they can we’re mistaken and thought they needed to be replaced at 1000 hours?

 

[fwebster]

1000 hours is just a recommended service interval for 3116's and 3126's. thee next time you will have to ddress this is at 2000 hours. It certainly doesn't mean there was a problem, just the correct maintenance to keep the boat current.

Understand that there are 2 sides to a marine aftercooler….the air side that4 can get fouled by excess blow by, lots of long term idling or running below the point where you begin to put a load on the engines (±1000-1100). This doesn't mean you cannot idle in no wake or restricted traffic areas, but it does mean you should not run to the Bahamas at idle speed to save fuel. The other sidee of the after cooler is the cooling side. The 3126 is cooled with sea water so cleaning side on them means getting marine growth and calcium deposits chemically cleaned by vatting in an acid based solution.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Per the broker, and I had to lean on him to get him to start volunteering "the bad" the boat was under contract last month. Mechanical survey said "service the aftercoolers and do not run the boat until it's done"; estimate $8000. These were first time boat buyers (again), they got scared and walked away. Broker thinks the shop/mechanical surveyor just wanted work and was trying to scare the first time boat buyers.

Any symptoms I should look for, or questions I should ask, to determine if they need servicing?

@fwebster is the fouling all serviceable? I assume yes with some sort of cleaning.

 

[Carver370]

If the aftercoolers just need servicing (as in removal, cleaning, and re-installation) it would be nowhere near 8k to complete that service. If the aftercoolers are in need of service, you can count on the heat exchangers, oil cooler, trans cooler, and water pumps needing to be serviced as well.

Brand new from CAT, the 3126 aftercooler is about $3200.

Pretty simple procedure.

 

[Stee6043]

Merc reman 7.4L engine...$5k

 

[Gallf1]

Bought 2000 380DA with 7.4's remans in 2019 for under $90K. Had all updated electronics to include Radar and Autopilot, new interior with custom upholstery. I planned on some long trips so I went thru the mechanicals and updated the old "log" style exhaust to the newer "water lift" and installed new raw water impellers.

Cruised from Palm Coast (Daytona, FL) to Bahamas and back, about 3 weeks total on the boat in everything from calm ICW waters and "sporty" waves in the Gulfstream. Never had an issue with sea handling or power. Documented average speed of about 20mph at 3200rpm with burn rate of 23.5 GPH, trim tabs down and loaded for the trip with provisions and dinghy on platform or 10.2mph at 2000rpm with burn rate of 11.5GPH at "Hull Speed".

We use the boat 2-3 times per month locally and 1-2 times per year do a "big" trip (this year Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas)....while Diesels would be nice, I can literally work on everything on these basic automotive engines without any specialized knowledge and when it comes time to replace engines, I can buy fully remanufactured 7.4's for under $5K with a 2-year warranty.

With that kind of use vs cost/benefit ratio, gas is ok for me.

 

[mrsrobinson]

Bought 2000 380DA with 7.4's remans in 2019 for under $90K. Had all updated electronics to include Radar and Autopilot, new interior with custom upholstery. I planned on some long trips so I went thru the mechanicals and updated the old "log" style exhaust to the newer "water lift" and installed new raw water impellers.

Cruised from Palm Coast (Daytona, FL) to Bahamas and back, about 3 weeks total on the boat in everything from calm ICW waters and "sporty" waves in the Gulfstream. Never had an issue with sea handling or power. Documented average speed of about 20mph at 3200rpm with burn rate of 23.5 GPH, trim tabs down and loaded for the trip with provisions and dinghy on platform or 10.2mph at 2000rpm with burn rate of 11.5GPH at "Hull Speed".

We use the boat 2-3 times per month locally and 1-2 times per year do a "big" trip (this year Fort Jefferson in the Dry Tortugas)....while Diesels would be nice, I can literally work on everything on these basic automotive engines without any specialized knowledge and when it comes time to replace engines, I can buy fully remanufactured 7.4's for under $5K with a 2-year warranty.

With that kind of use vs cost/benefit ratio, gas is ok for me.

Well said, and I agree with you. I started my search ok with the 8.1s. I know the 7.4s well since I've had them on a few boats and like you I can work on them myself.

I do go back and forth on the "gas vs. diesel" decision. I think the last 3 "bad boats" I had under contract in 2021 and walked away from because of "gas engine" issues coupled with 3-4 gas engine breakdowns with my last 2 boats, where we limped home on 1 engine (in 2 cases over 8 hours) because of "electronic fuel injection gas engine" specific issues have me thinking differently. Plus I have always wanted diesels and want to challenge myself to learn them. Having grown up around Caterpillar heavy machinery with my dad, I kind of lean towards them as well.

 

[fwebster]

One thing the pro gas engine guys never mention is for long term ownership there is a hidden depreciation cost……..the value of a gas boat already fully depreciated drops like a rock if you keep one another 5-4 years. That $90K gas 380 will bring about $55-60K in another 5-7 years. On the other hand, these diesel 380DA's are all 3 priced attractively and if you keep the service up and keep a detailed maintenance log they will very likely increase in value instead of going down in value

I am a maintenance fanatic and my '96 is a good example of that. I kept her 25 years, took good care of the boat and the engines and she sold for more than I paid for her in 1997 dollars.

Over my ownership, I saw how well Caterpillar designs things. The cooling system is overdesigned and has a lot of capacity. I cleaned the heat exchangers twice in 25 years and they didn't really need cleaning the second time but I had a several broken off anodes and wanted to get rid of the potential for blocking a cooling tube in one of the coolers. We used a recirculating diesel engine cleaner and recirculated the descaler 4-5 hours in both engines and when I pulled off th e end caps the inside of the heat exchanger looked brand new.

As far as maintenance costs are concerned, you will have an annual oil and filter change; filters from the Caterpillar parts department are cheaper than Mercruiiser filters; buy CF-4 SAE-30 diesel engine oil at TSC or an oil distributor and do the servicing on a Saturday morning….these boats have oil change pumps on them. In 25 years, I only had a Cat mechanic on the boat twice….one was for the 250 overhead service on the engines because that one takes some Cat specific gauge blocks and pins to lock the crankshaft in place to prevent it rotating while the valves and injectors are reset…. the cost was $850 in 1998; and the second time we involved aCat technician was in 2019 when we cleaned the aftercoolers. The mechanical work was easy, but in Florida you need an EPA license to handle the caustic cleaning solvents. I also wanted to change all the hoses obscured by the after-coolers, so I bought the hoses and had the Cat guy change them while he was vatting out the after coolers.

One more thing, on the 3126's in the listings you posted. I only see photos of the engines in the listings, but I believe these are the replacement version Cat came up with to replace the 3116, which they couldn't get the EPA to accept. These are probably 350hp rated 3126's and that engine has been buillet proof.

Don't let third hand knowledge or "somebody said XYZ" keep you from buying one of the best boats Sea Ray ever produced.

 

[fwebster]

Per the broker, and I had to lean on him to get him to start volunteering "the bad" the boat was under contract last month. Mechanical survey said "service the aftercoolers and do not run the boat until it's done"; estimate $8000. These were first time boat buyers (again), they got scared and walked away. Broker thinks the shop/mechanical surveyor just wanted work and was trying to scare the first time boat buyers.

Any symptoms I should look for, or questions I should ask, to determine if they need servicing?

@fwebster is the fouling all serviceable? I assume yes with some sort of cleaning.

Definitely. They are kinda like heat exchangers. There is an air side and a cooling side. The air side may get some carbon build up from normal blow-by and since the 3126 after-coolers are seawater cooled, you may get some calcium fouling from salt water growth. This is a 1000 service interval on the 3126, so depending upon when and if the previous owner cleaned the aftercoolers (I think you said one of the boats had the aftercoolers cleaned recently and she has 1300± hours on her) you may have 7-8 years before you need to do it again.

 

[Stee6043]

One thing the pro gas engine guys never mention is for long term ownership there is a hidden depreciation cost……..the value of a gas boat already fully depreciated drops like a rock if you keep one another 5-4 years. That $90K gas 380 will bring about $55-60K in another 5-7 years. On the other hand, these diesel 380DA's are all 3 priced attractively and if you keep the service up and keep a detailed maintenance log they will very likely increase in value instead of going down in value

I would hardly every be able to disagree with someone with your background but on the depreciation topic...are you sure? I've been following gas/diesel 400/410's (of my vintage) for the better part of 6 years now. There is almost no difference in depreciation between gas and diesel during that time. The only difference is in the premium for the diesel, all else being equal.

Our boats are already 20+ years old. I can't see why a gas powered boat at this point would experience 50% more depreciation than the same with diesel power. Unless I'm missing something in my weekly boattrader coffee breaks...