1997 420 AC Gas Westerbeke question

[ttmott]

At the gen i flip the switch on the rear of the gen switch panel to on and then start the gen from the panel on the gen.. it will run all day until I press the stop switch. If i flip the switch on the rear of the rear of the gen to off it will start from the salon panel if I go through the start sequence. It runs for a few seconds then dies. I am still questioning the correct position of the rocker switch after the generator starts from the salon. I don't understand why it springs to the down position which I believe should be the off position.

You can see from the terminals on the back of the switch that it is a Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) and from what you stated a momentary SPST. The switch you are talking about is a Single Pole Double Throw (SPDT). The SPDT has three terminals on the back of the switch which this one does not have. Check this video out on Carling switches.

 

[Stee6043]

I assume we have the same generator, same year. The function of the switch in my cabin is as has been described here already - down is off, middle is on and up is start (momentary).

Does your gen look like below? When you mention the switch at the "rear" are you talking about the AC breaker (which is below the red box on mine) or one of the three colored switches on the generator?

 

[Fred Freitag]

Stee6043 - my gen looks very similar. I have the AC breaker below and to the left of the black panel that houses the hour meter and start, stop switched. On the back of that box is a switch that needs to be in the down position to be able to start the gen from the switches on the gen. If it is in the down position I cannot get the switch on the salon panel to do anything. Likewise when this switch is moved to the up position the salon panel switch will start the gen but the onboaed switches are not able to start it. The switch on my salon panel works like this: normal position is down, I press it to the up position and hear the warning horn, I press it up once again and the light flashes slowly for about 10-15 seconds then flashes rapidly, then I press it up once again and the gen starts. When I release the rocker it immediately springs back to the down position. The gen runs for a few seconds and then stops. Are you saying that this procedure is what you use to start your gen but instead of the switch springing to the down position is spring back the the middle (possibly run) position? Any chance you have a picture if the backside of the rocker switch with the wiring attached? My switch is a Carland V2DA part number.

 

[Fred Freitag]

Stee6043 - my gen looks very similar. I have the AC breaker below and to the left of the black panel that houses the hour meter and start, stop switched. On the back of that box is a switch that needs to be in the down position to be able to start the gen from the switches on the gen. If it is in the down position I cannot get the switch on the salon panel to do anything. Likewise when this switch is moved to the up position the salon panel switch will start the gen but the onboaed switches are not able to start it. The switch on my salon panel works like this: normal position is down, I press it to the up position and hear the warning horn, I press it up once again and the light flashes slowly for about 10-15 seconds then flashes rapidly, then I press it up once again and the gen starts. When I release the rocker it immediately springs back to the down position. The gen runs for a few seconds and then stops. Are you saying that this procedure is what you use to start your gen but instead of the switch springing to the down position is spring back the the middle (possibly run) position? Any chance you have a picture if the backside of the rocker switch with the wiring attached? My switch is a Carland V2DA part number.

 

[Stee6043]

Stee6043 - my gen looks very similar. I have the AC breaker below and to the left of the black panel that houses the hour meter and start, stop switched. On the back of that box is a switch that needs to be in the down position to be able to start the gen from the switches on the gen. If it is in the down position I cannot get the switch on the salon panel to do anything. Likewise when this switch is moved to the up position the salon panel switch will start the gen but the onboaed switches are not able to start it. The switch on my salon panel works like this: normal position is down, I press it to the up position and hear the warning horn, I press it up once again and the light flashes slowly for about 10-15 seconds then flashes rapidly, then I press it up once again and the gen starts. When I release the rocker it immediately springs back to the down position. The gen runs for a few seconds and then stops. Are you saying that this procedure is what you use to start your gen but instead of the switch springing to the down position is spring back the the middle (possibly run) position? Any chance you have a picture if the backside of the rocker switch with the wiring attached? My switch is a Carland V2DA part number.

Hmm. I'm not sure I have the switch you reference on the back of the generator. That or I've never gone looking for it.

This is what my 12V panel looks like with the single generator switch. I think someone already mentioned that your switch might be broken (an easy fix). Yes, mine starts as you've described but returns to the center (on) position when you release it. This is how it should work. When you say it "runs for a few seconds and then stops" it's probably just coasting down to 0rpm. It sure sounds like you're going from "start" to "off" on the cabin switch...

 

[Fred Freitag]

Thanks for sending the picture. Thats what my panel looks like except the switch has a bit different light. I ordered a switch and should have it this week. I am going to see if that solves the problem.

 

[ttmott]

I'm wondering if that generator has electronics to aid in starting.
Follow me on this -

• The switch in the solon electrical panel is a momentary ON only.
• Assuming the ON and Stop switches on the front of the generator are positioned to operate the generator and they stay that way.
• The switch in the back of the generator is actually the circuit breaker and always ON.
• The fact that you can start and operate the generator from the generator tells me the Fire System is functioning normally.
• In the Solon on the electrical panel -

1. Press and Hold the momentary until generator cranks and starts and oil pressure comes up.
2. Release the momentary and the generator should continue to operate.
3. To terminate operation press the momentary again and it shuts down then release.

 

[Fred Freitag]

ttmott - I will try that today and get back to you. Thanks for sending the video. I learned quite a bit from it. The switch in the salon is a Carling V2DA. I haven't looked on the website to see how that switch is supposed to operate. Will do that today as well.

 

[km1125]

I'm thinking that if the switch is the wrong type that there would be a extra wire or two behind the panel that's not being used. That doesn't appear to be the case (just from the pics posted).

 

[Fred Freitag]

There aren't any extra wires. From what I can tell the wiring on the back side of the panel is vintage Searay factory wiring. The wires still have the white taped on wire labels and the routing and tie wrapping are way too perfect. It looks like nobody has ever been inside the panel.

 

[km1125]

Yea, then I'm thinking ttmott's post #27 is a key read.

The only other possibility is that it is a three position switch and some debris is under the cover preventing it from going back to position #1. But, with only two wires on the back that wouldn't make sense.

 

[Fred Freitag]

ttmott - more information: I used your method and here are the results.
- I press the switch and release. The light on the switch flashes slowly. Fuel pump turns on. After about 10 seconds the light flashes rapidly.
- I press the switch again and the gen starts. I hold the switch and the gen runs. I hold for about 10 seconds to make sure the oil pressure is up.
- I release the switch. It goes to the default "down" position and the gen shuts off.

I tried another quick test. I started the gen and held the switch in the "Up" (start) position. As long as I hold the switch the gen continues to run. I held the switch for about a minute and the gen continues to run.

According the the Carling site the switch in my panel is an off - momentary on switch and as shown in the picture in my first post there are only 4 wires and 4 terminals. I can't make sense of this unless there is a problem with the monoplex module.

 

[km1125]

ttmott - more information: I used your method and here are the results.
- I press the switch and release. The light on the switch flashes slowly. Fuel pump turns on. After about 10 seconds the light flashes rapidly.
- I press the switch again and the gen starts. I hold the switch and the gen runs. I hold for about 10 seconds to make sure the oil pressure is up.
- I release the switch. It goes to the default "down" position and the gen shuts off.

I tried another quick test. I started the gen and held the switch in the "Up" (start) position. As long as I hold the switch the gen continues to run. I held the switch for about a minute and the gen continues to run.

According the the Carling site the switch in my panel is an off - momentary on switch and as shown in the picture in my first post there are only 4 wires and 4 terminals. I can't make sense of this unless there is a problem with the monoplex module.

When you did this test, did you have the "ON" switch located ON THE GENERATOR in the "on" position?

 

[Fred Freitag]

I have attached three pictures of the gen. One showing the On Start Stop panel. One showing the breaker on the side of the Panel and the last showing the switch located on the rear of the gen. This is the configuration that I had the switches in during the test. In order for me to start the gen in the engine room I need to flip the remote bypass switch to the other position otherwise the panel on the front of the gen will not do anything.

 

[km1125]

So when you flip the remote bypass switch UP, to use the controls at the generator, do you ONLY have to push the start to get it running or do you also have to push that "ON" button to the down position?

Forget about the dual-pole AC breaker for now... that has nothing to do with starting or running the genset from either position, it just needs to be on so they generator can supply AC to the boat.

 

[Fred Freitag]

I need to hold the on button as well when starting. I continue ti hold the on button for a few seconds so the oil pressure builds and then I release it and the gen stays running.

 

[km1125]

So all three switches on the generator panel are momentary-contact switches?

 

[Fred Freitag]

Yed

 

[370Dancer]

This is exactly backwards from my installation. If I don't have the remote stop/run/start switch in the run position in the cabin, then the genset mounted controls don't work to start it. This is because in order to have a remote set of switches you have to remove the jumper between terminals 1 and 2 in the genset. I think your setup is the reverse.
I think you have to make sure the the "Remote Bypass" is down when using the cabin switch. I'll bet it is connected to terminals 1 and 2. When you engage it (if that is what is happening when you flip it up) it's probably jumpering 1 and 2, allowing you to start from the engine room. Is that Remote Bypass (switch number 4 in my count on the genset, including Stop) a momentary switch? I would think not. Don't continue to hold the start in the cabin more than a few seconds if the starter is still engaging while the engine is running. At least, I wouldn't.
Call Westerbeke and give them the model/serial number. They will tell you in a heartbeat what's going on. It's the ONLY thing they don't charge an arm and a leg for. My head hurts.........

 

[Fred Freitag]

I need to have the switch on the rear in the up position to start the gen from the gen panel. Are the jumpers you speak about in the control panel box?