1997 420 AC Gas Westerbeke question

[Fred Freitag]

Hello everyone I am a new member and recently purchased a 420 AC. I have a gas Westerbeke generator and I have a few questions about it. The PO told me he started the gen from the panel on the generator and stopped it that way. My salon remote panel has a single switch for the generator. The rocker seems to be a single position switch. I read about pushing the top part of the switch to start the fuel pump and the light on the switch flashes slowly for about 10 - 15 seconds then flashes rapidly. At this point I press and hold the top half of the switch until the gen starts. At this point the generator runs but I have no idea how to turn it off from the salon panel since there is no "down" position for the switch. The only way I can stop the gen is to go into the ER and hold down the stop switch. On my previous boat (not Searay and Kohler gen) my salon switch was 3 position. The middle being the default, top being the Start and the bottom being Stop. What am I missing here?

 

[370Dancer]

If you can't push that switch down to stop the genset, I'd suspect a busted switch
this is from the 400, same year.

 

[Fred Freitag]

I need to check the switch. So on your boat the switch defaults to the middle position? I haven't opened the panel to look at the rear of the switch. Does the start sequence I outlined look correct to you?

 

[jmcdboater]

Welcome to the Cult, you’ll find lots of great folks with lots of great experience and great helpful opinions! BTW, I’m with @370Dancer, I believe it’s a bad switch. The ‘down’ position should shut the Genny down. Get a new switch from Sea Ray to check the three-position ability. You can always return the switch if we’re wrong. Good Luck!

 

[370Dancer]

down=off, middle=run, up=momentary start.
default is down, or off. Mine is more old school, with 2 switches, where the 2nd switch acts as a sensor bypass so the gen will start and run, even though the oil pressure is zero. the other switch is just like yours. Has to be in run position to start, hold the momentary 2nd switch to bypass, and then push up to engage the starter on the first switch. Yours uses some "circuitry" to perform the bypass operation.

 

[Fred Freitag]

JMCDBOATER - thanks for the welcome! I have been reading the CS forum ever since I sold my cruiser and started looking for a sedan bridge. Fell in love with the 400 Sedan but once I stepped back and really evaluated how my family would use the boat we opted to go with the 420 AC. I really wanted to get diesels but ended up getting a nice deal on a gas model. We don't travel very far on our river system (coves, rafting up, etc.) So I can live with the 7.4's. I am going to replace the switch to see if that's the problem. I thought it might be just going by my last boat generator start/run/stop single switch. Start - up, center -run, down -stop. I opened the panel and the switch has 5 wires attached as seen in the attached pic. Two wires on the top left and right terminals, a double wire connected to the center and one at the bottom.

 

[Fred Freitag]

370Dancer - my switch defaults to down as well that's what I am confused about. I use the momentary up position to start and then once it starts the switch "springs" back to the down position. When I want the stop the gen running there isn't a down position to press because that is where the switch defaults to once I get it running.

 

[370Dancer]

370Dancer - my switch defaults to down as well that's what I am confused about. I use the momentary up position to start and then once it starts the switch "springs" back to the down position. When I want the stop the gen running there isn't a down position to press because that is where the switch defaults to once I get it running.

Sounds like the wrong switch is there, or it is physically broken. Basically the same operation as your engine start switch. 3 positions. Top position is momentary.

 

[Fred Freitag]

370Dancer - I agree and thought this switch should behave like the engine switch. Default center and momentary up to start and momentary down to stop. I ordered a switch. I will update once I have it and let you know. Thanks!

 

[ttmott]

The switch in your pic is a momentary on. Denoted as (on) / Off.
The two wires on the very end of the switch terminals 7 and 8 (right in your picture) are for the switch Lamp.
The center wires on terminal 2 is the common or power. The wire on terminal 3 is the switch leg (momentary).
It seems there is something missing in the arrangement. Like, how to turn on and off the generator ignition.
Are those blue wire terminals used throughout the electrical panel?

 

[Fred Freitag]

ttmott - interesting question about the blue terminals. I wondered the same thing. Other switches in the panel use yellow connectors as seen in the picture attached. It would be great to see a picture of someone's setup (back side of switch showing terminals). I feel like this switch was changed at some point over the last 20+ years of ownership and I am guessing the gen operation was never quite right. I need to take a few more pictures of the back of the panel. I will post them later today when I get to the boat.

 

[Fred Freitag]

ttmott - not sure if you saw my original message but I can start the gen from this switch...I just have no way of stopping it which makes sense since it is a momentary on/off. I don't think Searay would have designed a remote switch for the generator to only start it and then need to hop in the ER to stop the gen at the gen switch.

 

[ttmott]

ttmott - not sure if you saw my original message but I can start the gen from this switch...I just have no way of stopping it which makes sense since it is a momentary on/off. I don't think Searay would have designed a remote switch for the generator to only start it and then need to hop in the ER to stop the gen at the gen switch.

I don't think so either.
There are two basic configurations that SR uses in their Generator switching. A single switch and dual switch. It appears that someone has removed the Fire Boy engine shut-down feature that would have been a part of the single switch configuration. Typically, in a single switch configuration (On / (On) / Off) the down position removes power from the Fire Boy module relay which removes the "ignition" power from the generator. The middle position of the switch turns on that Fire Boy module generator relay and provides ignition power to the generator. The momentary (on) part of the switch commits the start sequence in the generator. Someone might have bridged over the Fire Boy relay and removed the ignition on/off feature.
Just guessing here...

 

[Fred Freitag]

Thanks for the information. I am going to dig into it a bit further later today.

 

[370Dancer]

370Dancer - I agree and thought this switch should behave like the engine switch. Default center and momentary up to start and momentary down to stop. I ordered a switch. I will update once I have it and let you know. Thanks!

Down should not be momentary.

 

[Fred Freitag]

Thanks for the correction. This switch should be the same as the engine ignition rocker at the helm correct?

 

[370Dancer]

Thanks for the correction. This switch should be the same as the engine ignition rocker at the helm correct?

says me. I think ttmott is on to something. I don't have the fire suppression on my gen.

 

[Fred Freitag]

So a little more information...when I start the gen from the salon switch it will run for about 5-8 seconds and then shutdown. When I start it from the switches on the gen it will run forever until I shut it down with the stop switch. I read on the forum about the monoplex on the gen and some of them being a trouble spot. I am not sure if this would make the gen start and then stop after a few seconds?? Or does the gen run for a few seconds and then stop because the switch defaults to the down position? My concerns about the blue spade connectors on the switch can be dismissed. I should have thought about the color difference before but it didn't occur to me at the time. The blue and yellow connectors correspond to the wire gauge. Can anyone tell me if the switch in the salon reacts like the main engine start switch? Middle position is run, up momentary to start the engine and then down to kill the engine? I have the original Westerbeke wiring diagram but there is nothing relating to the remote start panel in the salon.

 

[ttmott]

If you turn the main on/off switch on the generator to ON then the generator should start and run from the switch in your solon electrical panel.
The reason it runs until you release the switch is because for starting it bypasses the oil pressure switch and allows the generator to start. But because there isn't any power (ignition) it will shut right back off when you release that switch.

The Monoplex is specific to the diesel generators; it is a timing circuit for the glow plugs.

I still think there is something amiss with respect to the switching from the solon power panel. You should be able to start, run, and stop the generator from that panel.

 

[Fred Freitag]

At the gen i flip the switch on the rear of the gen switch panel to on and then start the gen from the panel on the gen.. it will run all day until I press the stop switch. If i flip the switch on the rear of the rear of the gen to off it will start from the salon panel if I go through the start sequence. It runs for a few seconds then dies. I am still questioning the correct position of the rocker switch after the generator starts from the salon. I don't understand why it springs to the down position which I believe should be the off position.