State of the pleasure boat cruising economy

chuck1 said:

Can we please get back on the boating topic, before this thread is moved.

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Move it Chuck! This needs talked about and everything said here is "on topic" with the first post talking about the state of the economy...IMHO

My boat is a gas guzzler so I hate having to fill her up. There, boat talk.

Now, as a earlier poster said, we are pawns in the game. An unintended consequence of our current two system is that is makes all this finger pointing possible. The point of the two party system was to ensure no one party had full control of government. The scary thing is that it is broken, and the two parties are just about one, with either bending toward the middle to get their way on one thing or another, but neither getting what they really need, what the country needs that is. Couple that with corruption and greed and kickbacks and it gets really easy to see how things could get out of hand. These people arent stupid, they know exactly what they are doing. They have been doing it for decades and while we finger point back and forth about what team is better, it always just gets a little worse every 4 years despite the party in control. They know it and we should too. What is really clever about how this situation has fallen into place, perhaps by accident or intentionally, is that with this system in place, it controls what some countries cannot, which is a revolution. As long as the people BELIEVE they can make it better if they can just hold on for 4 more years and vote in a Rep or Dem next time, they will not go to such drastic measures as revolution. Some leaders dont have that luxury as they are obviously in total control, so blame goes totally to them and them alone. Our 2 party system has everyone running around thinking their guy will save the day. Fact is, it'll get worse every time as it has for decades, not years. A third party shake-up of the good 'ol boy club is needed ASAFP.

Down in South Georgia, my marina seems to be doing very well. At least since they started selling Bayliners. There are a great deal more of the bowriders and runabouts. Not so much for the 30 foot and up crowd. On our barrier islands, they are still just as full as a few years ago. We did however take the boat up to Charleston 2 months ago and noticed that the Charleston Harbor Marina was about 3/4 full and we did not need a reservation.
FYI, I just skipped from the first page to the last on this thread. I'm looking forward to all of the boating information, as I know no one would have hijacked Gary's thread to start talking about politics...

jrock1062 said:

What part of they get that money back in the form of a pension do you not understand :smt021

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Don't talk smarta$$ to an elder:smt101....now would some one please fill up my gas tank so I can go boating this weekend.:lol:

gregkjones said:

My boat is a gas guzzler so I hate having to fill her up. There, boat talk.

Now, as a earlier poster said, we are pawns in the game. An unintended consequence of our current two system is that is makes all this finger pointing possible. The point of the two party system was to ensure no one party had full control of government. The scary thing is that it is broken, and the two parties are just about one, with either bending toward the middle to get their way on one thing or another, but neither getting what they really need, what the country needs that is. Couple that with corruption and greed and kickbacks and it gets really easy to see how things could get out of hand. These people arent stupid, they know exactly what they are doing. They have been doing it for decades and while we finger point back and forth about what team is better, it always just gets a little worse every 4 years despite the party in control. They know it and we should too. What is really clever about how this situation has fallen into place, perhaps by accident or intentionally, is that with this system in place, it controls what some countries cannot, which is a revolution. As long as the people BELIEVE they can make it better if they can just hold on for 4 more years and vote in a Rep or Dem next time, they will not go to such drastic measures as revolution. Some leaders dont have that luxury as they are obviously in total control, so blame goes totally to them and them alone. Our 2 party system has everyone running around thinking their guy will save the day. Fact is, it'll get worse every time as it has for decades, not years. A third party shake-up of the good 'ol boy club is needed ASAFP.

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Wow! I actually agree with someone from the left coast!!! Here...here...

jrock1062 said:

They deserve all of that they just should not expect someone else to pay for it. wealth redisrtabution is just not rite, the government doesnt have money they take it from the people

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Not sure why you think I or those hard working people are looking for handouts? You and a lot of other people here. I think most people want a job where they can be productive, make a difference, and be happy. Of course there are people abusing the system, it's a problem that needs to be fixed. I don't think anyone disagrees other than those scamming the system. Don't portray lower income people working 3 jobs as looking for your handouts, I think that's the last think they want.

sfergson727 said:

...I knew it also would not provide the kind of lifestyle that I wanted for myself and future family.
So I worked hard, did well in school and pursued my dream to all of my ability, and eventually, after much sweat and tears, my hard work paid off. I paid my dues, and obtained my goals. I respect everyone who does that. However, certain jobs pay more than others, and that it just the way it is, as it always has been. As an adult, you get a job, if you don't make enough at your current job, you get another one and so on and so forth.

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I almost mentioned the same thing as I was also getting that vibe. I killed myself in my 20's in school and training. I remember so many many times friends calling me up asking if I wanted to go do this or that, but I was busting my ass at school and working full time. I honestly feel like I sacrificed most of my 20s and it was a whirlwind of tests and struggles and letdowns and yes, a few good times but I looked in the mirror one day and realized I hadnt stopped to really look in the mirror for almost 10 years, and the hard work showed on my face. I remember that shock, the very moment I realized how all consuming it was to make the goal. Now alot of those friends have ok jobs that pay somewhat low wages and they say how lucky I am. I am lucky, alot of people even with hard work dont make it or give up or both, but it isnt ONLY luck, it is hard work and sacrifice to get out of the trenches and at least be comfortable, not rich by any means, just comfortable. And even now I could lose it all in a heartbeat, one bad physical and its all gone, everything. That is alot of work and risk. Alot of people would never work that hard to get what they want, they feel it is owed to them. I think many of the people that are sick and tired of being taxed to death and feel that they are being held responsible for other's lack of education or motivation. People goof off and party until they wake up 40 years old living at mom and dad's house and then they are PO'd at the guy across the street with a nice car and a boat and want to tax everyone to pay for their new career training or whatever. Its BS. The government needs people on the take, preferably 51% of them because then they can always catch some easy votes by just promising some new social services. This process has been written about in many books. In one book it refers to this situation in capitalism called "the doomsday mechanism", when more people need the government than dont. At that point, only the needy's vote matters; the takers, not the revenue generators. We may be there already, if not we are real close.

sfergson727 said:

So I'm curious about something. When I was a lad, looking at career possibilities, I set my goals to doctor, airline pilot or a lawyer. Okay, garbage man too. I worked at Hardee's and Marsh groceries as well as had a paper route while I was in junior high and high school. I didn't want to work at Hardee's for a career. Why? Because in addition to not being what I dreamed of doing, I knew it also would not provide the kind of lifestyle that I wanted for myself and future family. (Not to disparage anyone working in the fast food industry, grocery or even sanitation, as once you climb the ladder, emphasis on climb the ladder, you can make a good living)

So I worked hard, did well in school and pursued my dream to all of my ability, and eventually, after much sweat and tears, my hard work paid off. I paid my dues, and obtained my goals. I respect everyone who does that. However, certain jobs pay more than others, and that it just the way it is, as it always has been. As an adult, you get a job, if you don't make enough at your current job, you get another one and so on and so forth.

However, I am getting at vibe from certain posters here, that it's somehow unfair that people are working in low paying jobs. Am I'm I way off base, Terri and others, that you feel this way? I hope so, because the type of utopia where everyone makes great money no matter the job or abilities does not exist, and cannot exist in a successful, capitalistic economy. For those who desire a utopia based on "fairness" I suggest you move to Russia, or start your own kingdom somewhere....Antartica comes to mind.

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I don't get that vibe but I can see how you might. There are some posts that show an understanding and support for those less economically blessed, like the lower 50%. You know who I mean, dem guys who don't pay no taxes and others have to support. I believe the idea that 1/2 the tax returns in this country represent a group that does nothing of value, let alone work, has drawn commentary from those more willing to look at the whole picture. Perhaps the term 'deserve' shouldn't have been used but in any case I think you misunderstand what they meant.

sfergson727 said:

So I'm curious about something. When I was a lad, looking at career possibilities, I set my goals to doctor, airline pilot or a lawyer. Okay, garbage man too. I worked at Hardee's and Marsh groceries as well as had a paper route while I was in junior high and high school. I didn't want to work at Hardee's for a career. Why? Because in addition to not being what I dreamed of doing, I knew it also would not provide the kind of lifestyle that I wanted for myself and future family. (Not to disparage anyone working in the fast food industry, grocery or even sanitation, as once you climb the ladder, emphasis on climb the ladder, you can make a good living)

So I worked hard, did well in school and pursued my dream to all of my ability, and eventually, after much sweat and tears, my hard work paid off. I paid my dues, and obtained my goals. I respect everyone who does that. However, certain jobs pay more than others, and that it just the way it is, as it always has been. As an adult, you get a job, if you don't make enough at your current job, you get another one and so on and so forth.

However, I am getting at vibe from certain posters here, that it's somehow unfair that people are working in low paying jobs. Am I'm I way off base, Terri and others, that you feel this way? I hope so, because the type of utopia where everyone makes great money no matter the job or abilities does not exist, and cannot exist in a successful, capitalistic economy. For those who desire a utopia based on "fairness" I suggest you move to Russia, or start your own kingdom somewhere....Antartica comes to mind.

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Scott, I was going to say glad you asked until I read the rest of your post. You are really quite a mean and nasty person. I hate to take the bait, but rather than let you answer your own questions, with another insult, which I suspect is a trait of pretty extreme narcissism. 'not everything is about you'. No one is saying that every person can earn 6, 7 and 8 figure salaries and I certainly didn't ever say that we should somehow redistribute the wealth to them. We seem to be squeezing the working class for a whole lot of reasons. We're driving many hard working people into poverty, pricing affordable health care out of their reach, and moving towards a 2 class system, rich and labor' where labor will not afford housing or healthcare. The gap is widening. I think they deserve better, and I'm sorry you don't feel that way. Maybe we should just put them in big dorms like Foxcon. But then don't forget the nets! The 'I' and 'Me' in today's society is stiffling! Keep telling yourself your so much better than the person working 60 hours in a factory that they don't deserve health care, or a roof, or 3 meals a day... and keep a big glass of that kool aid close by.

JediJD said:

... I think we all want to pay for roads and help our elders but for quite some time our elders are going to get less, and get it later and we are not going to have as many roads because all of the money for roads and elders was already spent on great societies, and bureaucracies, and military presences, and housing bubbles, and stupid "investments" in foreign countries. It wasn't Republicans or Democrats...it was both of them and all of us. ..

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This echoes my sentiment.
The housing bubble is a microcosm of the feeding frenzy mentality that got us in deeper than we already were.
Growth is good, it helps support many sectors in an economy, but we need controls to stop the kind of baseless growth that resulted in the collapse of that industry.
When I bought my first house, it was 100-year old place needing a LOT of work, which I was able to do, which was good because I didn't have a down payment.
The bank took a hard look at me, and allowed me to do a 'sweat equity'. I stayed in that place for 15 years, and finally had a house built 10 years ago.
This time around, I had a substantial down payment, and certainly didn't need any "no-doc" loan to finagle my way into a house that I really couldn't afford.

Sadly, that has not been the case with some of my neighbors, many of whom are gone after a few years of living here. They and many others were allowed to get in over their heads by a banking industry that has largely resisted the kind of regulation that would have made it more difficult for them to do so.
It was all about the profits of lending, and damn the regulations.
Now those folks taking those loans need to take some of the blame too- they should know better and should really read the fine print, but many people looked around and saw "everybody" was doing it, and so "why not me too?".

The fallout from that has caused that value of our homes to drop anywhere from 5 - 20%. I'm ok b/c we don't plan on selling anytime soon, but I know some people who got hurt by this, due to job transfers, retirement goals, etc.

This is not an example of a need for a "nanny state", this is an example of a need to curb reckless behaviour on the part of the corporate mentality that allows such things to flourish (e.g., no-doc loans), and for us as a whole to adjust our cultural values that allow us to say "I don't care if I can't really afford it, they'll give it to me, so I'll take it now & the h3ll with the consequences!".

In fairness, I also realize that some of these folks lost their jobs, and unfortunately lost their homes as well, and I don't mean to lump anyone in that position as "irresponsible".

This is just about applying some common sense to how we do things, and I know that's easier said than done.

twyant said:

View attachment 20785
!Salary of the US President. ..$400,000
Salary of retired US Presidents ...$180,000
Salary of House/Senate...$174,000
Salary of Speaker of the House.. .$223,500
Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders... $193,400
Average Salary of Soldier DEPLOYED IN IRAQ $38,000
I think we found where the cuts should be made. My son could use a little more

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A handsome young man, I'm sure you're very proud of him as I am of my son. I wish the military treated him better. I'm sure your son has told you the same stories about how every little thing that they use, touch, eat is extracted from their small paychecks. I was astonished for the risk these kids take, how little they're paid. One good thing is the new GI bill that my son wants to take advantage of when he gets out next year.

Soooooooo......, hmmm........crazy weather huh?

Theresamarie11 said:

Not sure why you think I or those hard working people are looking for handouts? You and a lot of other people here. I think most people want a job where they can be productive, make a difference, and be happy. Of course there are people abusing the system, it's a problem that needs to be fixed. I don't think anyone disagrees other than those scamming the system. Don't portray lower income people working 3 jobs as looking for your handouts, I think that's the last think they want.

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No one said anything about scams or people working 3 jobs or lower or higher incomes ALL I said is in this country you have choices you make choices and they have consequences, if you don't get a position that affords you things I understand but it is NOT my responsibility to make sure you have ac ? or health care or affordable housing

We all want life to be fair but to me fair is giving everyone the opportunity to achieve and were you take that is up to you as an individual, if you dont achieve it is your fault not societies ..

Woody said:

I don't get that vibe but I can see how you might. There are some posts that show an understanding and support for those less economically blessed, like the lower 50%. You know who I mean, dem guys who don't pay no taxes and others have to support. I believe the idea that 1/2 the tax returns in this country represent a group that does nothing of value, let alone work, has drawn commentary from those more willing to look at the whole picture. Perhaps the term 'deserve' shouldn't have been used but in any case I think you misunderstand what they meant.

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I am assuming you are directing this at me so I will respond

You all on the left keep saying... you need to pay your fair share, well I ask the question whats fair ? is it fair that 50% pay nothing ? is it fair that you ask me to pay 50% is that enough or maybe thats not enough.. you want more ?? see here is what you dont understand so I will say it in caps for you

MY SWEAT EQUITY MY TIME EQUITY MY BLOOD EQUITY IS NOT TRANSFERABLE TO SOME ONE ELSE I SPENT THE TIME MONEY AND EFFORT TO GET WHERE I AM
I should not have to worry about what someone can afford, who went through life not caring about life and watching American idol

oh my god all these people complaining, yet doing nothing but complaining, well instead of sitting on this board complaining all day I went oout and took control of MY OWN WORLD and got a new customer..Ow wow another 20K a year in profit... more money for more Fuel..Oh and tomorrow, I'm going to go out and get more customers and I'm not going to complain, like a lot of you on this board, not all of you , but most of you, and gheez all gary wanted to talk about was how he'd noticed that there wasn't many boats out his way... Go figure...
ok that's all for me on this thread, so let the complaining begin once again... carry on all.....

Theresamarie11 said:

When my effective tax rate is higher than someone making a 10's or 100's of millions of dollars a year (or more as in my example of the top 400) I find that inconsistent with a progressive and graduated tax rate.

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I agree. So let's lower BOTH your taxes, and the rich guy's taxes, and you'll BOTH be happy, right? All we gotta do is make the government spend less money.

And once again, a straight percentage IS progressive... Takin it from the top... again...

Assume 10% flat tax

Make $1,000,000 - pay $100,000
Make $100,000 - pay $10,000
Make $10,000 - pay $1,000
Make $1,000 - pay $100

Uh... How is that not "progressive"

Final note: What is progressive from the government's perspective is regressive from the people's perspective.

Theresamarie11 said:

A handsome young man, I'm sure you're very proud of him as I am of my son. I wish the military treated him better. I'm sure your son has told you the same stories about how every little thing that they use, touch, eat is extracted from their small paychecks. I was astonished for the risk these kids take, how little they're paid. One good thing is the new GI bill that my son wants to take advantage of when he gets out next year.

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Thanks Hope when all the young men and women get out the military safe and take advantage of all that the government has to offer them .After all they did put there life on the line for this nation without them we would have a lot more to gripe about than the government that they put there life on the line for.

boltman said:

oh my god all these people complaining, yet doing nothing but complaining, well instead of sitting on this board complaining all day I went oout and took control of MY OWN WORLD and got a new customer..Ow wow another 20K a year in profit... more money for more Fuel..Oh and tomorrow, I'm going to go out and get more customers and I'm not going to complain, like a lot of you on this board, not all of you , but most of you, and gheez all gary wanted to talk about was how he'd noticed that there wasn't many boats out his way... Go figure...
ok that's all for me on this thread, so let the complaining begin once again... carry on all.....

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Gary knew exactly what he was doing when he started this thread!

jrock1062 said:

I am assuming you are directing this at me so I will respond

You all on the left keep saying... you need to pay your fair share, well I ask the question whats fair ? is it fair that 50% pay nothing ? is it fair that you ask me to pay 50% is that enough or maybe thats not enough.. you want more ?? see here is what you dont understand so I will say it in caps for you

MY SWEAT EQUITY MY TIME EQUITY MY BLOOD EQUITY IS NOT TRANSFERABLE TO SOME ONE ELSE I SPENT THE TIME MONEY AND EFFORT TO GET WHERE I AM
I should not have to worry about what someone can afford, who went through life not caring about life and watching American idol

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You don’t really think you’re living in this country without receiving the benefit of some one elses tax dollar, do you? You keep bringing up that 50% thing, do you know who is in that group?

I quoted sfergson727's post and replied to it. What your talking about I don’t know and I've come to the conclusion that neither do you.

This country historically was known as the "land of opportunity", equal oportunity, not equal outcomes provided by the government that some seem to crave.