State of the pleasure boat cruising economy

Scott, I was going to say glad you asked until I read the rest of your post. You are really quite a mean and nasty person. I hate to take the bait, but rather than let you answer your own questions, with another insult, which I suspect is a trait of pretty extreme narcissism. 'not everything is about you'. No one is saying that every person can earn 6, 7 and 8 figure salaries and I certainly didn't ever say that we should somehow redistribute the wealth to them. We seem to be squeezing the working class for a whole lot of reasons. We're driving many hard working people into poverty, pricing affordable health care out of their reach, and moving towards a 2 class system, rich and labor' where labor will not afford housing or healthcare. The gap is widening. I think they deserve better, and I'm sorry you don't feel that way. Maybe we should just put them in big dorms like Foxcon. But then don't forget the nets! The 'I' and 'Me' in today's society is stiffling! Keep telling yourself your so much better than the person working 60 hours in a factory that they don't deserve health care, or a roof, or 3 meals a day... and keep a big glass of that kool aid close by.

Terri,

Having spent some time with Scott out on his boat, I can tell you that nothing could be further from the truth than you calling him a "mean and nasty person". He was very generous and cordial and couldn't do enough to make my stay welcome and memorable. However, between that visit and reading his posts here on CSR, I do agree with most of his views.

What exactly do you mean "We're driving many hard working people into poverty"? Who is "We're". You? Me? Scott? Because we work hard for our money and want to keep as much as possible of it to spend as we see fit that means we are driving hard working people into poverty? I do not get that logic at all.

You mentioned affordable health care... it isn't the health care industry as much as it is the insurance companies. My mother worked for a doctor office with 3 and 4 doctors practicing her entire career. She handled all of the billing and insurance claims for that office. My current doctor has 3 partners in the practice and 6 office people to handle all of the insurance paperwork. Who pays for all that? We do through insurance or direct exaggerated costs.

Further, a number of years ago my then 20 year old daughter had a bladder infection - it hit her late in the evening - I took her to the 24 hour clinic. They examined her, had her pee in a cup, dipped a strip in the cup, and gave her a prescription and sent her home. I do not even think she wrinkled the paper on the table... and they gave her a bill for $1,700 because she was uninsured. However if she was on my policy it would have been a $35 charge... WHAT? Are you going to tell me that the service was worth $1,700? Or for that matter that is was worth the $35? Probably the real cost was somewhere between $75 and $100 BUT insurance companies drive the pricing now.

It is called life. Some people are dealt a better hand initially, some get a terrible hand and have to fold and some work hard to get a better hand later in the game. Just because a guy folds doesn't mean that I have to give him some of my chips to play with...

Many people today do not want to work - they want everything handed to them. Now - right now! No waiting! For gods sake do not give a kid an "F" or announce that someone is the class valedictorian. Someone's feeling might get hurt. Let's just keep stroking peoples egos so they think that they deserve everything in the world.

I have faced many hardships in my own life to get where I am today. I never took any handouts. I raised my daughter on my own and provided for her. There were times I ate lots of peanut butter sandwiches and lots of macaroni and scrambled eggs. I couldn't afford cable TV and I drove a $500 car. But I worked my way out of it, became very good in my profession and today I earn a very good living. And I want to keep as much of my money as "MY MONEY"! I worked for it. It is mine!

Nobody deserves a 3,600 sq ft house with a pool, a Lexus or Mercedes, a big Sea Ray or a Beechcraft airplane. What they do deserve is a clean, dry, house to protect them from the elements. The ability to acquire healthy food and water. To live in a neighborhood that is relatively crime free. No more, no less.

Hard work and ambitions can provide the nice house and the toys. But even then nothing is guaranteed! There is no free ride nor a perfect world!

What happened to kids being kids. Kids wear helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, gloves etc all to ride around the block using training wheels. What happened to letting kids fall down and learn from their mistakes. Now with all their armor on if something happens it is someone else's fault and they "should pay".

The government says we have to wear seat belts in cars, wear helmets on motorcycles, kids need to be in car booster seats until they are 13. ( I am not against any of those things but they shouldn't be mandated.) Now the Coast Guard wants to mandate life vests at all times - even while at the dock. There are cameras at stop lights, on highways and in places you probably never see. We are closer to George Orwell's "Big Brother" than many people realize. Where does it stop? When we have no free choice at all and we give the government all our money and they give us an allowance each week?.

Do not misunderstand me. I give generously to many organizations and I tithe generously to my church. But it is my decision to spend my money -NOT the governments decision on how to spend my money!

-Steve
 
My wife was a school teacher until this year. Actually, she worked at NASA for 12 years, has a BS and MS in computer science... went and got a teaching degree because it was a dream of hers and has been teaching HS math... Probably the exact type of person we want teaching HS math... she quit this year. I think the tipping point for her was she was not allowed to grade papers in red ink as it would "hurt the student's feelings." They did a study on non-performing students and found that they had more red ink on their papers than performing students... so obviously it is the ink's fault.

'nough said about how the education system (run by liberal nut jobs) now treat people. That whole "No child left behind" thing is a joke. When I grew up, I was scared to death of being "left behind." Now students say "F you. You can't leave me behind so I'm not working."

I personally don't think anyone should be able to vote, let alone decide on "fair share", if they don't pay taxes.

Hence... I have to wonder with the way the world operates if the boating industry, especially for larger boats, will ever come back. It seems that the under-performers in life find they are symbols of evil and greed now and not something to work/aspire to...
 
MY SWEAT EQUITY MY TIME EQUITY MY BLOOD EQUITY IS NOT TRANSFERABLE TO SOME ONE ELSE I SPENT THE TIME MONEY AND EFFORT TO GET WHERE I AM
I should not have to worry about what someone can afford, who went through life not caring about life and watching American idol


AMEN!!!!!

Of all the posts this is by far the most intelligent, eye opening, truthful words I have read! Thank you.

To Dems capitalism is evil, socialism is good. Stop holding your hand out and help America!

I know I haven’t seen Packdad post in awhile. But he and a friend were looking for a good boat mechanic. They found this kid in southern Oregon who was just awesome and knew boats inside and out. He wanted to start his own business but didn't have the start up capital. Well Packdad and his friend helped him out. Moved him to the Tacoma area, got him started in a shop and now he is so busy this kid may have to hire his first employee! This guy is now a small busienss owner and Packdad and his friend gets a return on their investment.

Morale of the story. Dems if you want to change the road America is going down stop complaining about it and do something as Packdad did. Stop electing these no good for American elitist who don't give a rat ass about anything but power and themselves. Start leading by example!!

Rant done. My apologies Gary.
 
Terri,

Having spent some time with Scott out on his boat, I can tell you that nothing could be further from the truth than you calling him a "mean and nasty person". He was very generous and cordial and couldn't do enough to make my stay welcome and memorable. However, between that visit and reading his posts here on CSR, I do agree with most of his views.

What exactly do you mean "We're driving many hard working people into poverty"? Who is "We're". You? Me? Scott? Because we work hard for our money and want to keep as much as possible of it to spend as we see fit that means we are driving hard working people into poverty? I do not get that logic at all.

You mentioned affordable health care... it isn't the health care industry as much as it is the insurance companies. My mother worked for a doctor office with 3 and 4 doctors practicing her entire career. She handled all of the billing and insurance claims for that office. My current doctor has 3 partners in the practice and 6 office people to handle all of the insurance paperwork. Who pays for all that? We do through insurance or direct exaggerated costs.

Further, a number of years ago my then 20 year old daughter had a bladder infection - it hit her late in the evening - I took her to the 24 hour clinic. They examined her, had her pee in a cup, dipped a strip in the cup, and gave her a prescription and sent her home. I do not even think she wrinkled the paper on the table... and they gave her a bill for $1,700 because she was uninsured. However if she was on my policy it would have been a $35 charge... WHAT? Are you going to tell me that the service was worth $1,700? Or for that matter that is was worth the $35? Probably the real cost was somewhere between $75 and $100 BUT insurance companies drive the pricing now.

It is called life. Some people are dealt a better hand initially, some get a terrible hand and have to fold and some work hard to get a better hand later in the game. Just because a guy folds doesn't mean that I have to give him some of my chips to play with...

Many people today do not want to work - they want everything handed to them. Now - right now! No waiting! For gods sake do not give a kid an "F" or announce that someone is the class valedictorian. Someone's feeling might get hurt. Let's just keep stroking peoples egos so they think that they deserve everything in the world.

I have faced many hardships in my own life to get where I am today. I never took any handouts. I raised my daughter on my own and provided for her. There were times I ate lots of peanut butter sandwiches and lots of macaroni and scrambled eggs. I couldn't afford cable TV and I drove a $500 car. But I worked my way out of it, became very good in my profession and today I earn a very good living. And I want to keep as much of my money as "MY MONEY"! I worked for it. It is mine!

Nobody deserves a 3,600 sq ft house with a pool, a Lexus or Mercedes, a big Sea Ray or a Beechcraft airplane. What they do deserve is a clean, dry, house to protect them from the elements. The ability to acquire healthy food and water. To live in a neighborhood that is relatively crime free. No more, no less.

Hard work and ambitions can provide the nice house and the toys. But even then nothing is guaranteed! There is no free ride nor a perfect world!

What happened to kids being kids. Kids wear helmets, knee pads, elbow pads, gloves etc all to ride around the block using training wheels. What happened to letting kids fall down and learn from their mistakes. Now with all their armor on if something happens it is someone else's fault and they "should pay".

The government says we have to wear seat belts in cars, wear helmets on motorcycles, kids need to be in car booster seats until they are 13. ( I am not against any of those things but they shouldn't be mandated.) Now the Coast Guard wants to mandate life vests at all times - even while at the dock. There are cameras at stop lights, on highways and in places you probably never see. We are closer to George Orwell's "Big Brother" than many people realize. Where does it stop? When we have no free choice at all and we give the government all our money and they give us an allowance each week?.

Do not misunderstand me. I give generously to many organizations and I tithe generously to my church. But it is my decision to spend my money -NOT the governments decision on how to spend my money!

-Steve

AMEN...What he said!
 
My wife was a school teacher until this year. Actually, she worked at NASA for 12 years, has a BS and MS in computer science... went and got a teaching degree because it was a dream of hers and has been teaching HS math... Probably the exact type of person we want teaching HS math... she quit this year. I think the tipping point for her was she was not allowed to grade papers in red ink as it would "hurt the student's feelings." They did a study on non-performing students and found that they had more red ink on their papers than performing students... so obviously it is the ink's fault.

'nough said about how the education system (run by liberal nut jobs) now treat people. That whole "No child left behind" thing is a joke. When I grew up, I was scared to death of being "left behind." Now students say "F you. You can't leave me behind so I'm not working."

I personally don't think anyone should be able to vote, let alone decide on "fair share", if they don't pay taxes.

Hence... I have to wonder with the way the world operates if the boating industry, especially for larger boats, will ever come back. It seems that the under-performers in life find they are symbols of evil and greed now and not something to work/aspire to...
I think I would start with a job being a requirement to vote.
 
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I think I would start with a job being a requirement too vote.
I like the "tax payer" idea! People who don't pay taxes get to vote for people who will "hand out" the "tax payers" money! That don't seem right!!
 
Steve S, I've been vilified because of my beliefs, and don't believe I've vilified anyone here for anything other than what they're saying or how nasty they're saying it. I seem (and liberals in general) to be getting tied to all kinds of fantasy about what it means to be liberal. Read what I say and don't read more into it. If you want to defend someone who throws someone else under the bus, that they don't know other than that person defends others right to a good life if they work hard, then i guess it's your right. My beliefs being fiscal conservatism and social liberalism (which i've said more than once). When I say the word 'we're', I mean the country and its policies, not you, scott or anyone else on the thread.

There is a clear violent response to 'social liberal', which I'll add that Scott started with a 'cram it' comment, without really taking the time to understand what it means. In my book, that's not a very nice person. I'm glad he has friends, but suspect that just maybe you share views. A social liberal doesn't discriminate against others, for race/religion/orientation, and especially not the down trodden, sick, elderly, less fortunate. Which doesn't equal those scamming the system! But it doesn't mean that I want to support them directly either (where did i say that... or that you should). And I have lots of conservative friends, but we can debate intelligently, without getting nasty and throwing each other under the bus. I try to treat everyone the same, and don't base who I'm nice to based on their religion, race, orientation, politics, or the size of their paycheck, boat or car. I feel I'm far into the minority here on that treatment. Heck, I don't like paying my tax rate, and I pay a ton, and want less 'fat', but you guys vilify me like I'm promoting that all of you double your taxes, I don't think I've written this anywhere.

And what I find really sad, those that have the opportunity to be leaders, and focus the masses on the real issues, instead want to stir up and promote hatred. And the less intelligent follow behind like sheep. Everyone loves a scapegoat for all of their own misery.

Steve, I guess I've said all I can say and with that last sentence you have on religion, I'll bow out. I can only imagine the turn this will take.
 
I'm another one who wants my money to remain MY MONEY. I'm also one who brought myself up out of poverty to be able to retire comfortably. I left home at 15, finished high school and college, spent 7.5 years in the USAF during the Vietnam era, went through a few career changes to better myself and am now enjoying the fruits of my labors. For most of my younger life I worked two jobs, ate lots of Mac and Cheese, Hamburger Helper and peanut butter sandwiches. Not once did I ever ask for or receive any handouts, welfare or government assistance of any kind and I'm proud of that.

I don't want to have to support some lazy b*stard who wants to sit around watching porn on his computer or play video games all day. I also don't give money to the guy who stands on the street corner begging. If he can stand on his feet all day to beg, he can stand on his feet to flip burgers, bag groceries, mow lawns, or do something productive to earn a damn living. I'm tired of seeing second and third generation welfare people at the grocery store using MY money to buy their TV dinners and other prepared foods, then getting cash back from their welfare cards so they can use that to buy their tobacco and booze.

Our government needs to drastically trim spending if we ever want to get out of this hole we've dug ourselves into. Raising taxes is not the way and I know that from when I was broke. If I didn't have the money to eat at McDonalds I ate PBJ's or Mac & Cheese. If I didn't have the money to go to a movie or out for a drink I stayed home. The bottom line....I CUT MY SPENDING.

Why is it so hard for our legislators from both parties to understand that. California is the perfect example. They're probably the state that's in the worst financial position of any state. One only has to look at the list below of state-level organizations to see why they're broke and to see lots of opportunities to cut spending. Here's a list of CA agencies that receive state funding. Can you see a pattern that needs to be changed?

California Academic Performance Index (API) * California Access for Infants and Mothers * California Acupuncture Board * California Administrative Office of the Courts * California Adoptions Branch * California African American Museum * California Agricultural Export Program * California Agricultural Labor Relations Board * California Agricultural Statistics Service * California Air Resources Board (CARB) * California Allocation Board * California Alternative Energy and Advanced Transportation Financing Authority * California Animal Health and Food Safety Services * California Anti-Terrorism Information Center * California Apprenticeship Council * California Arbitration Certification Program * California Architects Board * California Area VI Developmental Disabilities Board * California Arts Council * California Asian Pacific Islander Legislative Caucus * California Assembly Democratic Caucus * California Assembly Republican Caucus * California Athletic Commission * California Attorney General * California Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California Bay-Delta Authority * California Bay-Delta Office * California Biodiversity Council * California Board for Geologists and Geophysicists * California Board for Professional Engineers and Land Surveyors * California Board of Accountancy * California Board of Barbering and Cosmetology * California Board of Behavioral Sciences * California Board of Chiropractic Examiners * California Board of Equalization (BOE) * California Board of Forestry and Fire Protection * California Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind * California Board of Occupational Therapy * California Board of Optometry * California Board of Pharmacy * California Board of Podiatric Medicine * California Board of Prison Terms * California Board of Psychology * California Board of Registered Nursing * California Board of Trustees * California Board of Vocational Nursing and Psychiatric Technicians * California Braille and Talking Book Library * California Building Standards Commission * California Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education * California Bureau of Automotive Repair * California Bureau of Electronic and Appliance Repair * California Bureau of Home Furnishings and Thermal Insulation * California Bureau of Naturopathic Medicine * California Bureau of Security and Investigative Services * California Bureau of State Audits * California Business Agency * California Business Investment Services (CalBIS) * California Business Permit Information (CalGOLD) * California Business Portal * California Business, Transportation and Housing Agency * California Cal Grants * California CalJOBS * California Cal-Learn Program * California CalVet Home Loan Program * California Career Resource Network * California Cemetery and Funeral Bureau * California Center for Analytical Chemistry * California Center for Distributed Learning * California Center for Teaching Careers (Teach California) * California Chancellors Office * California Charter Schools * California Children and Families Commission * California Children and Family Services Division * California Citizens Compensation Commission * California Civil Rights Bureau * California Coastal Commission * California Coastal Conservancy * California Code of Regulations * California Collaborative Projects with UC Davis * California Commission for Jobs and Economic Growth * California Commission on Aging * California Commission on Health and Safety and Workers Compensation * California Commission on Judicial Performance * California Commission on State Mandates * California Commission on Status of Women * California Commission on Teacher Credentialing * California Committee on Dental Auxiliaries * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office, Junior Colleges * California Community Colleges Chancellors Office * California Complaint Mediation Program * California Conservation Corps * California Constitution Revision Commission * California Consumer Hotline * California Consumer Information Center * California Consumer Information * California Consumer Services Division * California Consumers and Families Agency * California Contractors State License Board * California Corrections Standards Authority * California Council for the Humanities * California Council on Criminal Justice * California Council on Developmental Disabilities * California Court Reporters Board * California Courts of Appeal * California Crime and Violence Prevention Center * California Criminal Justice Statistics Center * California Criminalist Institute Forensic Library * California CSGnet Network Management * California Cultural and Historical Endowment * California Cultural Resources Division * California Curriculum and Instructional Leadership Branch * California Data Exchange Center * California Data Management Division * California Debt and Investment Advisory Commission * California Delta Protection Commission * California Democratic Caucus * California Demographic Research Unit * California Dental Auxiliaries * California Department of Aging * California Department of Alcohol and Drug Programs * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control Appeals Board * California Department of Alcoholic Beverage Control * California Department of Boating and Waterways (Cal Boating) * California Department of Child Support Services (CDCSS) * California Department of Community Services and Development * California Department of Conservation * California Department of Consumer Affairs * California Department of Corporations * California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation * California Department of Developmental Services * California Department of Education * California Department of Fair Employment and Housing * California Department of Finance * California Department of Financial Institutions * California Department of Fish and Game * California Department of Food and Agriculture * California Department of Forestry and Fire Protection (CDF) * California Department of General Services * California Department of General Services, Office of State Publishing * California Department of Health Care Services * California Department of Housing and Community Development * California Department of Industrial Relations (DIR) * California Department of Insurance * California Department of Justice Firearms Division * California Department of Justice Opinion Unit * California Department of Justice, Consumer Information, Public Inquiry Unit * California Department of Justice * California Department of Managed Health Care * California Department of Mental Health * California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) * California Department of Personnel Administration * California Department of Pesticide Regulation * California Department of Public Health * California Department of Real Estate * California Department of Rehabilitation * California Department of Social Services Adoptions Branch * California Department of Social Services * California Department of Technology Services Training Center (DTSTC) * California Department of Technology Services (DTS) * California Department of Toxic Substances Control * California Department of Transportation (Caltrans) * California Department of Veterans Affairs (CalVets) * California Department of Water Resources * California Departmento de Vehiculos Motorizados * California Digital Library * California Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Division of Apprenticeship Standards * California Division of Codes and Standards * California Division of Communicable Disease Control * California Division of Engineering * California Division of Environmental and Occupational Disease Control * California Division of Gambling Control * California Division of Housing Policy Development * California Division of Labor Standards Enforcement * California Division of Labor Statistics and Research * California Division of Land and Right of Way * California Division of Land Resource Protection * California Division of Law Enforcement General Library * California Division of Measurement Standards * California Division of Mines and Geology * California Division of Occupational Safety and Health (Cal/OSHA) * California Division of Oil, Gas and Geothermal Resources * California Division of Planning and Local Assistance * California Division of Recycling * California Division of Safety of Dams * California Division of the State Architect * California Division of Tourism * California Division of Workers Compensation Medical Unit * California Division of Workers Compensation * California Economic Assistance, Business and Community Resources * California Economic Strategy Panel * California Education and Training Agency * California Education Audit Appeals Panel * California Educational Facilities Authority * California Elections Division * California Electricity Oversight Board * California Emergency Management Agency * California Emergency Medical Services Authority * California Employment Development Department (EDD) * California Employment Information State Jobs * California Employment Training Panel * California Energy Commission * California Environment and Natural Resources Agency * California Environmental Protection Agency (Cal/EPA) * California Environmental Resources Evaluation System (CERES) * California Executive Office * California Export Laboratory Services * California Exposition and State Fair (Cal Expo) * California Fair Political Practices Commission * California Fairs and Expositions Division * California Film Commission * California Fire and Resource Assessment Program * California Firearms Division * California Fiscal Services * California Fish and Game Commission * California Fisheries Program Branch * California Floodplain Management * California Foster Youth Help * California Franchise Tax Board (FTB) * California Fraud Division * California Gambling Control Commission * California Geographic Information Systems Council (GIS) * California Geological Survey * California Government Claims and Victim Compensation Board * California Governors Committee for Employment of Disabled Persons * California Governors Mentoring Partnership * California Governors Office of Emergency Services * California Governors Office of Homeland Security * California Governors Office of Planning and Research * California Governors Office * California Grant and Enterprise Zone Programs HCD Loan * California Health and Human Services Agency * California Health and Safety Agency * California Healthy Families Program * California Hearing Aid Dispensers Bureau * California High-Speed Rail Authority * California Highway Patrol (CHP) * California History and Culture Agency * California Horse Racing Board * California Housing Finance Agency * California Indoor Air Quality Program * California Industrial Development Financing Advisory Commission * California Industrial Welfare Commission * California InFoPeople * California Information Center for the Environment * California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank (I-Bank) * California Inspection Services * California Institute for County Government * California Institute for Education Reform * California Integrated Waste Management Board * California Interagency Ecological Program * California Job Service * California Junta Estatal de Personal * California Labor and Employment Agency * California Labor and Workforce Development Agency * California Labor Market Information Division * California Land Use Planning Information Network (LUPIN) * California Lands Commission * California Landscape Architects Technical Committee * California Latino Legislative Caucus * California Law Enforcement Branch * California Law Enforcement General Library * California Law Revision Commission * California Legislative Analyst's Office * California Legislative Black Caucus * California Legislative Counsel * California Legislative Division * California Legislative Information * California Legislative Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender (LGBT) Caucus * California Legislature Internet Caucus * California Library Development Services * California License and Revenue Branch * California Major Risk Medical Insurance Program * California Managed Risk Medical Insurance Board * California Maritime Academy * California Marketing Services * California Measurement Standards * California Medical Assistance Commission * California Medical Care Services * California Military Department * California Mining and Geology Board * California Museum for History, Women, and the Arts * California Museum Resource Center * California National Guard * California Native American Heritage Commission * California Natural Community Conservation Planning Program * California New Motor Vehicle Board * California Nursing Home Administrator Program * California Occupational Safety and Health Appeals Board * California Occupational Safety and Health Standards Board * California Ocean Resources Management Program * California Office of Administrative Hearings * California Office of Administrative Law * California Office of AIDS * California Office of Binational Border Health * California Office of Child Abuse Prevention * California Office of Deaf Access * California Office of Emergency Services (OES) * California Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment * California Office of Fiscal Services * California Office of Fleet Administration * California Office of Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Implementation (CalOHI) * California Office of Historic Preservation * California Office of Homeland Security * California Office of Human Resources * California Office of Legal Services * California Office of Legislation * California Office of Lieutenant Governor * California Office of Military and Aerospace Support * California Office of Mine Reclamation * California Office of Natural Resource Education * California Office of Privacy Protection * California Office of Public School Construction * California Office of Real Estate Appraisers * California Office of Risk and Insurance Management * California Office of Services to the Blind * California Office of Spill Prevention and Response * California Office of State Publishing (OSP) * California Office of Statewide Health Planning and Development * California Office of Systems Integration * California Office of the Inspector General * California Office of the Ombudsman * California Office of the Patient Advocate * California Office of the President * California Office of the Secretary for Education * California Office of the State Fire Marshal * California Office of the State Public Defender * California Office of Traffic Safety * California Office of Vital Records * California Online Directory * California Operations Control Office * California Opinion Unit * California Outreach and Technical Assistance Network (OTAN) * California Park and Recreation Commission * California Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST) * California Performance Review (CPR) * California Permit Information for Business (CalGOLD) * California Physical Therapy Board * California Physician Assistant Committee * California Plant Health and Pest Prevention Services * California Policy and Evaluation Division * California Political Reform Division * California Pollution Control Financing Authority * California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo * California Postsecondary Education Commission * California Prevention Services * California Primary Care and Family Health * California Prison Industry Authority * California Procurement Division * California Public Employees Retirement System (CalPERS) * California Public Employment Relations Board (PERB) * California Public Utilities Commission (PUC) * California Real Estate Services Division * California Refugee Programs Branch * California Regional Water Quality Control Boards * California Registered Veterinary Technician Committee * California Registrar of Charitable Trusts * California Republican Caucus * California Research and Development Division * California Research Bureau * California Resources Agency * California Respiratory Care Board * California Rivers Assessment * California Rural Health Policy Council * California Safe Schools * California San Francisco Bay Conservation and Development Commission * California San Gabriel and Lower Los Angeles Rivers and Mountains Conservancy * California San Joaquin River Conservancy * California School to Career * California Science Center * California Scripps Institution of Oceanography * California Secretary of State Business Portal * California Secretary of State * California Seismic Safety Commission * California Self Insurance Plans (SIP) * California Senate Office of Research * California Small Business and Disabled Veteran Business Enterprise Certification Program * California Small Business Development Center Program * California Smart Growth Caucus * California Smog Check Information Center * California Spatial Information Library * California Special Education Division * California Speech-Language Pathology and Audiology Board * California Standardized Testing and Reporting (STAR) * California Standards and Assessment Division * California State Administrative Manual (SAM) * California State Allocation Board * California State and Consumer Services Agency * California State Architect * California State Archives * California State Assembly * California State Association of Counties (CSAC) * California State Board of Education * California State Board of Food and Agriculture *California Office of the Chief Information Officer (OCIO) * California State Children's Trust Fund * California State Compensation Insurance Fund * California State Contracts Register Program * California State Contracts Register * California State Controller * California State Council on Developmental Disabilities (SCDD) * California State Disability Insurance (SDI) * California State Fair (Cal Expo) * California State Jobs Employment Information * California State Lands Commission * California State Legislative Portal * California State Legislature * California State Library Catalog * California State Library Services Bureau * California State Library * California State Lottery * California State Mediation and Conciliation Service * California State Mining and Geology Board * California State Park and Recreation Commission * California State Parks * California State Personnel Board * California State Polytechnic University, Pomona * California State Railroad Museum * California State Science Fair * California State Senate * California State Summer School for Mathematics and Science (COSMOS) * California State Summer School for the Arts * California State Superintendent of Public Instruction * California State Teachers Retirement System (CalSTRS) * California State Treasurer * California State University Center for Distributed Learning * California State University, Bakersfield * California State University, Channel Islands * California State University, Chico * California State University, Dominguez Hills * California State University, East Bay * California State University, Fresno * California State University, Fullerton * California State University, Long Beach * California State University, Los Angeles * California State University, Monterey Bay * California State University, Northridge * California State University, Sacramento * California State University, San Bernardino * California State University, San Marcos * California State University, Stanislaus * California State University (CSU) * California State Water Project Analysis Office * California State Water Project * California State Water Resources Control Board * California Structural Pest Control Board * California Student Aid Commission * California Superintendent of Public Instruction * California Superior Courts * California Tahoe Conservancy * California Task Force on Culturally and Linguistically Competent Physicians and Dentists * California Tax Information Center * California Technology and Administration Branch Finance * California Telecommunications Division * California Telephone Medical Advice Services (TAMS) * California Transportation Commission * California Travel and Transportation Agency * California Unclaimed Property Program * California Unemployment Insurance Appeals Board * California Unemployment Insurance Program * California Uniform Construction Cost Accounting Commission * California Veterans Board * California Veterans Memorial * California Veterinary Medical Board and Registered Veterinary Technician Examining Committee * California Veterinary Medical Board * California Victim Compensation and Government Claims Board * California Volunteers * California Voter Registration * California Water Commission * California Water Environment Association (COWPEA) * California Water Resources Control Board * California Welfare to Work Division * California Wetlands Information System * California Wildlife and Habitat Data Analysis Branch * California Wildlife Conservation Board * California Wildlife Programs Branch * California Work Opportunity and Responsibility to Kids (CalWORKs) * California Workers Compensation Appeals Board * California Workforce and Labor Development Agency * California Workforce Investment Board * California Youth Authority (CYA) * Central Valley Flood Protection Board * Center for California Studies * Colorado River Board of California * Counting California * Dental Board of California * Health Insurance Plan of California (PacAdvantage) * Humboldt State University * Jobs with the State of California * Judicial Council of California * Learn California * Library of California * Lieutenant Governors Commission for One California * Little Hoover Commission (on California State Government Organization and Economy) * Medical Board of California * Medi-Cal * Osteopathic Medical Board of California * Physical Therapy Board of California * Regents of the University of California * San Diego State University * San Francisco State University * San Jose State University * Santa Monica Mountains Conservancy * State Bar of California * Supreme Court of California * Teach California * University of California * University of California, Berkeley * University of California, Davis * University of California, Hastings College of the Law * University of California, Irvine * University of California, Los Angeles * University of California, Merced * University of California, Riverside * University of California, San Diego * University of California, San Francisco * University of California, Santa Barbara * University of California, Santa Cruz * Veterans Home of California
 
There are several million tax returns in the upper 50% that have no tax liability, they're not going to be happy about this.
How is there no tax liability? Didn't they pay some where/how? Even still, they probably employ folks!
 
Deleted as during edit I had a double posting, posted again below
 
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A handsome young man, I'm sure you're very proud of him as I am of my son. I wish the military treated him better. I'm sure your son has told you the same stories about how every little thing that they use, touch, eat is extracted from their small paychecks. I was astonished for the risk these kids take, how little they're paid. One good thing is the new GI bill that my son wants to take advantage of when he gets out next year.

Before you get something in a wad about the quote, this is not a dig at you.

This I can agree with, "A handsome young man, I'm sure you're very proud of him as I am of my son." but the rest I find quite humorous. :smt043

One states the average salary is $38,000.00 a year, I would be more interested in the "mode." And I would guess at even at the mode level it is not a bad starting salary for many...let me see there is not a draft anymore or gee at least since 1972? No! And then there is not any medical or dental bills plus the GI bill contribution?

And here is a big one "Personal responsibility" traits obtained by many.

This term "Entitlement," perplexes me, entitled by whom? Makes me think of the excuse used by politico's for the reason for "unearned income tax credit."

Part of the problem being associated with this 50% number is that in some part there is a large part who actually have no ambition or desire as long as there is a teat to feed from.

There have been many good comments posted in this thread. I particularly liked Steves, and many of Sfergusons comments, but here again too many I believe are taken to literally by too many.

I will say from my own short time on the planet and experiences I have come to observe these few things

1. Ignorance is bliss
2. Mental and physical laziness is in abundance
3. "A mind is indeed a terrible thing to waste, " This is a paraphrase of a black college slogan I believe.
4. Yes I am 100% American, but for the most part many Americans are just fat and lazy
5. Having income tax withheld does not mean one is actually an income tax payer, many are just a free withholding tax loaners
6. When the "entitled folks," folks get finished there will no longer be a nation, but so far no one has told me how one maintains these "Entitlements" without some form of sovereignty as a nation.

Oh,I know we will just have a law passed, sort of like the gun control zealots would have one believe. Hey stop! You cannot have a gun it is against the law> WOW! I know I will sleep better. Where did the term "Criminal " arise?

Lets see I am a criminal, but I will not use a gun, it is against the law, for it is written. :smt043:smt043

Just sign me as I was "RA" when it was not popular with the "US" or "NG's."

Other then that I had a normal life, mother dead at six, lived in foster homes, more verbal and physical abuse then I care to remember, fists, beatings with mop/broom handles, slaps, kicks, also as a kid, I worked mostly digging dirt by shovel, clearing land with an axe, raking straw by hand, yada, yada etc. high school drop out, (left home at 17 to escape the abuse), alcoholic parents, one, the step parent started me drinking at age 12, thought it was "cute"

So no I for one do not buy into this "Entitlement" crapola or the pablum of a utopia.

You can add this to the list above, ain't no such thing as a 'Utopia" or "Socialistic environ.",

There will always be; Those who have to shovel sh!t and those who tell them to shovel it.

Just my whole nickel:wow:
 
Steve S, I've been vilified because of my beliefs, and don't believe I've vilified anyone here for anything other than what they're saying or how nasty they're saying it. I seem (and liberals in general) to be getting tied to all kinds of fantasy about what it means to be liberal. Read what I say and don't read more into it. If you want to defend someone who throws someone else under the bus, that they don't know other than that person defends others right to a good life if they work hard, then i guess it's your right. My beliefs being fiscal conservatism and social liberalism (which i've said more than once). When I say the word 'we're', I mean the country and its policies, not you, scott or anyone else on the thread.

There is a clear violent response to 'social liberal', which I'll add that Scott started with a 'cram it' comment, without really taking the time to understand what it means. In my book, that's not a very nice person. I'm glad he has friends, but suspect that just maybe you share views. A social liberal doesn't discriminate against others, for race/religion/orientation, and especially not the down trodden, sick, elderly, less fortunate. Which doesn't equal those scamming the system! But it doesn't mean that I want to support them directly either (where did i say that... or that you should). And I have lots of conservative friends, but we can debate intelligently, without getting nasty and throwing each other under the bus. I try to treat everyone the same, and don't base who I'm nice to based on their religion, race, orientation, politics, or the size of their paycheck, boat or car. I feel I'm far into the minority here on that treatment. Heck, I don't like paying my tax rate, and I pay a ton, and want less 'fat', but you guys vilify me like I'm promoting that all of you double your taxes, I don't think I've written this anywhere.

And what I find really sad, those that have the opportunity to be leaders, and focus the masses on the real issues, instead want to stir up and promote hatred. And the less intelligent follow behind like sheep. Everyone loves a scapegoat for all of their own misery.

Steve, I guess I've said all I can say and with that last sentence you have on religion, I'll bow out. I can only imagine the turn this will take.
How is it possible to be a "social liberal" and a "fiscal conservative" at the same time and figure out who to vote for:huh: Democrats today swing way to far to the left for that to even be possible...IMHO
 
Wow. Go out of the country for a few days, and then the bilge pumps fail in the holding tank. . . .

. . what a mess of a thread!

I just came home, and I am busy catching up on how the immature "leaders" we have in Washington are so blinded by ideology that they can't authorize payment for credit card bill they have been running up. Sad, actually.
 
$167B (minus the revenue from the 400K people that Obama will put out of work this month) will be collected in August, so the $29B needed to pay the interest on the debt is going to be there. So will enough to pay for SS, and Medicare.

The only real question is where to stop spending the rest. The EPA, Dept. of Education, and the Commerce Department could use about 50% less in their budgets, and not a single one of us or the people we know will be impacted (except for the people that make bunny slippers, people won't need to buy new ones for work after they lose their government jobs).
 
Oh here we go . . . .

. . .my understanding of the numbers is you need to cut about 40% out of not just these "low hanging fruit" departments. . but ALSO medicare, ALSO SS AND defence to do what you are proposing.

Considering that we are well into the fiscal year, I suspect the short term cuts will need to be MUCH deeper if you no longer have a credit line to float the business of Goobermint. Oh. . . and what cuts are being planned in the Fiscal 2012 budget?
 
. . .my understanding of the numbers is you need to cut about 40% out of not just these "low hanging fruit" departments. . but ALSO medicare, ALSO SS AND defence to do what you are proposing.

Hey! We agree on the numbers! That's a first. Yeah, I figured an extra 10% can't hurt for these 3 agencies. We simply should not cut defense unless they can voluntarily eliminate a few unnecessary weapons systems or $100 toilet seats. There are too many Muslins that want to kill us. We need to stay ready to kill them when its time.

comsnark said:
Considering that we are well into the fiscal year, I suspect the short term cuts will need to be MUCH deeper if you no longer have a credit line to float the business of Goobermint. Oh. . . and what cuts are being planned in the Fiscal 2012 budget?

We could start cutting in 2012 by eliminating everything slated to go to Obamacare. 60% of the people never wanted it, 70% want it repealled, and none of it is in effect today, so nobody would even notice that it is gone.


BTW: Thanks for starting this mess up, Gary. You DID know what you were doing, didn't you?
 
I enjoy our chats.

Reread my post, then your post. Once you do that, then let's talk again!"

Hey! We agree on the numbers! That's a first.

Ok. . .starting at that basis. . . recognize how serious the problem is, and let's move on. . .

We simply should not cut defense unless they can voluntarily eliminate a few unnecessary weapons systems or $100 toilet seats. There are too many Muslins that want to kill us. We need to stay ready to kill them when its time.

THINK HARDER HOMER!

I think we are not talking about eliminating a few unnecessary weapons systems. . .I think we are talking about eliminating ALL of them. OR you are talking about a truely RADICAL reduction in active troop levels. 40% is not cutting off the edges. . .its cutting at the hips.

Eliminating Foreign Aid ain't gonna get you there.

Let's not get started on healthcare. Just remember that Obamacare included a pile of medicare cuts. If you simply REPEAL, that means the deficit goes up. And you have to stand down more troops.
 
I think you misunderstood. I said that there should be NO defense cuts at all unless the Joint Chiefs say "Well... we can do without this.". Completely off the table unless the military voluntarily wants to give something up because it it not necessary for the purpose of defending the country.

Eliminating foreign aid... Good idea. Cut every last nickle of that. I don't hear the EU talking about bailing us out, so obviously they don't care. They will when we stop giving them money.

Restore the half trilliion of Medicare cuts that Obama took out of it, back into Medicare. Remember, we are still going to leave the defense budget alone as it is a necessity. Lets look at the National Endowment for the Arts.... Cut that. Artists are supposed to be starving. I say we help them out. Let them get real jobs like the rest of us. Abolish the income tax, and scrap the code. Businesses should pay a flat 5% of revenue (not profit) tax when they sell to a consumer, 0% for business to business (as in raw materials, partial assemblies, etc.) sales unless the buying business IS the consumer for that product, then back to 5%.

The real piece of this puzzle is to GROW the economy by taking the handcuffs off. We should have a corporate jet subsidy. Make it so companies can depreciate the damn things 100% every 5 years. Do you know how many companies and people it takes to build all of the components in a Gulfstream? Tons. Shoot. The payroll taxes alone (at lower rate than they are now) would easily exceed the amount of revenue that we would take in by taxing them. We pay for tax increases with job and productivity losses. You don't (can't) pay for a tax cut because it is money that the government never had.

Social Security... The ponzi scheme of all ponzi schemes... Gotta be fixed. First and foremost, stop putting people on the program. Everyone 16 years old this year will never see a FICA deduction. Institute a 10% import tax on all imported goods. Drop that 10% into a REAL trust fund. You know, the kind where the money goes in, and stays put until needed for its intended. designated, purpose. Face it, every year, some senior citizens die. As time goes on, there will be less of them on SS. If we stop putting people on it, the benefits to be paid will continually decline. Now... Hollywood made $567B in one day on the new Harry Potter movie. They spent $125B to make it. We could tax movie box office revenues at 75%, which would bring in about $100B, and the studio would still make a 100% profit (in just that 1 day). We'll be nice, and let them keep the rest of the year's profits at their current tax rates. So, 75% tax on EVERY new movie release day 1 box office profit. I keep seeing the Hollywood folks supporting tax increases, time to put their money where their mouths are.

I think the Republicans screwed up on the Cut, Cap & Balance bill. Allowing the government to have 1/5 (20% for the public school graduates) of the GDP to spend is outrageous. They need to get that down to about 12%. Obama proved all of Keynes' theory to be wrong. He spent nearly $1T on "stimulus" and according to Keynes. we should be in tall cotton. Instead, we're in deep do do. All that spending bought not one single burger flipping job, nada. Nor did it raise any government revenues. Its just gone... Keynes was wrong, and we saw him proven to be so right in front of our eyes. Time to abandon that ship. Bilge pumps don't come super sized that big.

You know what, we are going to have to have our kids pay to get us out of this mess. That will mean taxing them in order to pay Medicare, and SS benefits that they will never receive. Unfortunately, paying for our mistakes just has to happen, but the #1 priority is to STOP MAKING MISTAKES THAT WE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR LATER.

Ooops... forgot a big one. Impose a 50% transfer fee on all wire transfers of money outside of the US made from within the US by illegal aliens. They come here illegally, take union jobs (go find an American carpenter on a job site - I dare you), get paid under the table, and then wire the money that they earn back to their families in Mexico. None of it gets spent here, so it is just gone. Take 50% of that away, and use 10% of it to transport the illegals to the border. 40% goes straight to SS.

That's all for now. As you were...
 
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