Dealing with a Dealer - Used Purchasing Advice

jrm005

jrm005

New Member
Aug 5, 2010
72
The Trail
Boat Info
2010 185 Sport
Engines
4.3 Mercruiser
We currently own a 185 Sport, only since August, and we already have the urge to upgrade and are looking at 260 Sundancers. We have found a 2008 260 that is dealer owned that has the options that we are interested in.

We got the dealer starting point offer, both on the 260 and 185 (trade in). And that is where it has stalled. They are not willing to move at all, one penny. Is that normal? We have only bought one boat in our lives and it was new from the dealer and we did multiple offers and counteroffers before we got to a final deal.

Does anyone have any advice on how best to deal with dealers on used boats?
 
Jason, let's hear the numbers than alot of people can Chime in!! I hate to use an anology but it's like dealing with used car salesman! The difference is you "Don't Need a Boat". That being said, I take it your in Florida somewhere. I have never in my life seen so many used boats for sale in that state!! We drove down to the Key's from Miami (Yes I am an Alumni of the U):smt038. The boats for sale were everywhere, in that kind of Market you might be better of selling your boat and then coming into a dealer with CASH!
BTW the noles SUCK!
 
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The numbers aren't pertinent to your question.

Boats are negotiated transactions. Only one-price dealers won't move on price, and there are very few of them around any more.

Whether or not the dealer moves is very much up to you and how you handled your discussions with them. Part of the process is that they must qualify you are a real buyer and not just a looker....i.e. tire kicker. Have you made a firm offer and offered them a deposit or just beat around the price issue with "What can you do on a trade? or Can you do any better? If they negotiate, you will have better luck by telling the salesman that you "like his boat and want to trade, but you just cannot pay that much. You can however give him "$XX and are prepared to write a contract and give him a deposit right now at that price". If that won't move him, then you need to shop elsewhere or pay his price.
 
fwebster said:
The numbers aren't pertinent to your question.

Boats are negotiated transactions. Only one-price dealers won't move on price, and there are very few of them around any more.

Whether or not the dealer moves is very much up to you and how you handled your discussions with them. Part of the process is that they must qualify you are a real buyer and not just a looker....i.e. tire kicker. Have you made a firm offer and offered them a deposit or just beat around the price issue with "What can you do on a trade? or Can you do any better? If they negotiate, you will have better luck by telling the salesman that you "like his boat and want to trade, but you just cannot pay that much. You can however give him "$XX and are prepared to write a contract and give him a deposit right now at that price". If that won't move him, then you need to shop elsewhere or pay his price.
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That was our approach exactly. I countered with what I felt was a fair price based on NADA and prices on BoatTrader and Craigslist, let him know I was willing to put a deposit down immediately and schedule the survey and that I had financing already lined up through my company. He came back with the exact same price as his original offer. I was just a little surprised, I thought there would be a negotiation. His price seems high.
 
Take a look on YachtWorld for the 5-6 states in the area of the country where you live to see how many 260's are listed, and what they're listed for. It may be that the dealer is not interested in taking ANY boat on trade because the boat he's selling may be a brokerage boat (consigned to him).

If you are a serious buyer, put your offer in writing, attach a serious downpayment check (20%-25% of the difference price) and take that to the dealer. On a side note, do you have equity in your 185? If you are upside down the dealer may not want or be able to roll your negative equity into the new boat loan and get financing approved. It's tougher today to get a boat loan than it was a year ago, especially if his boat is priced high (and he knows it) in relation to what it would book out for and if you have negative equity.
 
I was going to say, "Do you think the price is too high?" which is the case. Walk away.

We have a dealer near us that is like that. Basically you have to wait it out and take the chance that someone else will actually pay their higher price. You may want to monitor the current price (if possible) to see if it gets reduced and re-approach. He obviously thinks someone else is likely to pay his asking price - he may be right!

Lots of other boats on the market. I'd keep shopping and you never know, you may come back to this one at a later date if things change.
 
If the dealer just got the 260 in, that may be why they are so firm. They are more likely to deal on boats they've had a while. Also, they may have the impression you think this is the perfect boat and are gambling that won't walk away from it.
 
I think some very sound advice has been offered here. What I'd like to add is that you not fall in love with his boat. Find 2 or three of the same boat and compare them to each other in terms of hours, maintenance records, type of use and things like that. If after that you still want to make it yours then make sure his price is justified, compared to the others, & write the check.
 
Where is most of the price difference in your eyes? Is it on your 185 or is it on the 2008 260DA?

I think the market has changed a lot now and pricing has a lot to do with a dealer's available inventory. If their inventory is cut to the bone (and it is in many cases from what I can see), then don't expect much of a price break on anything you are buying because someone else will buy the boat and pay their price. On a trade in, it may be a similar situation. If they can't make a reasonable profit on the re-sale of yours they may be better off passing on the trade if you won't accept their offer price.
 
David Paul said:
Where is most of the price difference in your eyes? Is it on your 185 or is it on the 2008 260DA?

I think the market has changed a lot now and pricing has a lot to do with a dealer's available inventory. If their inventory is cut to the bone (and it is in many cases from what I can see), then don't expect much of a price break on anything you are buying because someone else will buy the boat and pay their price. On a trade in, it may be a similar situation. If they can't make a reasonable profit on the re-sale of yours they may be better off passing on the trade if you won't accept their offer price.
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I see more of an issue on price difference on the 160, I am closer to OK on the trade offer on the 185 (we are negotiating them separately).

You do bring up a good point, the dealer's inventory on 260 is very low, especially with these options. And, of course, they are in the middle of boat show season with lots of lookers out there.

My wife always says I am stubborn, so although this boat meets all my qualifications, it doesn't meet price, so I just can't give in. And like I said, they are not budging one inch.

I am not looking for giveaway pricing, just for pricing that accurately reflects the market pricing. Has anyone here paid the original asking price for a boat or a car, especially a used one? From all my reading on CSR, the asking price is the starting price of the negotiation and both parties work from there.
 
Another thing to consider is the price of the 260DA's replacement, namely the current 280DA. The price of those boats is so much higher than the 260DA that dealers really hold a trump card when they have a used 260DA in terms of being able to offer a customer a much cheaper option if the customer is looking for a small cruiser. You can probably get a used 2008 260DA for half what it would cost you to buy a similarly equipped new 280DA. I really think the dealers and the market in general is finally starting to wake up to this fact. I almost expect that the market prices on a lot of different models as well as used 260DAs will go up in the next few years because of that.
 
I am willing to bet that if you came in and made an offer without the trade they would deal. Dealers around here want NOTHING to do with a trade unless they are profiting 15-20% on the sale of your trade.

I for one know first hand that the days of offering 25% less on a boat are over. In the past week I know of 5 different boat deals that are coming together within 2,000-10,000 of asking price.
 
Carver370 said:
I am willing to bet that if you came in and made an offer without the trade they would deal. Dealers around here want NOTHING to do with a trade unless they are profiting 15-20% on the sale of your trade.

I for one know first hand that the days of offering 25% less on a boat are over. In the past week I know of 5 different boat deals that are coming together within 2,000-10,000 of asking price.
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And therein lies the problem, we have not been able to sell our boat. But I can see your point on that.

We offered 8% less than the asking price. Like I mentioned, we were not trying to steal the boat, just offer what we thought was a fair price. We don't want to pay more then what the boat is worth. I don't feel the need to negotiate, but I also don't feel the need to pay more.
 
When I bought my 280, the dealer would barely budge at all either. Probably because I was on a waiting list for one to come in that I liked, and partly because someone had put an offer to pay full price for it sight unseen. I only got it because the first guys financing fell through.
 
jrm005 said:
And therein lies the problem, we have not been able to sell our boat.
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There's the root of the problem. IMHO (and I don't blame you) you're looking to get close to a retail price on your trade and wanting to buy the new one at below retail, or even close to wholesale.

Ya can't make a deal work when one party is dealing on one end at wholesale and the other end at retail. Somebody is gonna get screwed.

I look at it like this....you have had your boat for sale for awhile and it's not selling. That tells me your asking price might be too high. Boats ARE selling, but only if they're priced right.

A dealer in FL who wants to know if I'm interested in selling Beachcomber sent me a sheet that lists 118 Sea Rays 38' and larger that sold in Q4, 2010. There are some interesting statistics in that list if one bothers to sort them out:
45% (53 of the 118) sold in the SE states.

57% (67) had been on the market 1-6 months
19% (22) had been on the market 7-12 months
18% (21) 1-2 years
7% (8) over 2 years

I realize there may be zero correlation between this size range and your used boat, but what this suggests to me is that boats are selling if they're priced right. In looking at the list of the 118 boats that sold, I would guess that most were sold within 5%-10% of their original price.

So, it may be time to take a hard look at the boat you own and, considering how long it's been on the market, ask yourself if it's priced right.

Then look at what the dealer owns....he has it priced high, but now is the time when boaters start shopping and plunking down money. (You are in that same boat, right???). There's no reason why he should be willing to come down on the boat at this time. If he's still sitting on the boat after Memorial Day weekend, then he might consider a lower offer but right now I think he's smart to hold his price.
 
Jason,
Having seen your boat up close I know that you want the best price as it is a very sweet boat. One thing I was thinking about was how this DA is equipped. Does it have something that makes it more appealing to a buyer than newer models? What options are included that you may pay more for on another DA? :huh:

Of course the biggest question is, will you be able to tow it to Keowee for next years raft up? That would be a deal breaker for me.:lol::lol:
 
OldSkool said:
Jason,
Having seen your boat up close I know that you want the best price as it is a very sweet boat. One thing I was thinking about was how this DA is equipped. Does it have something that makes it more appealing to a buyer than newer models? What options are included that you may pay more for on another DA? :huh:

Of course the biggest question is, will you be able to tow it to Keowee for next years raft up? That would be a deal breaker for me.:lol::lol:
Click to expand...

It does have the genset, windlass, camper canvas, bottom paint. But base engine.

And no, could not tow this one...
 
Well, I was in the car business for two years, and I learned that THE best way to "Do A Deal" is to negotiate the absolute bottom line price for the purchase without ANY mention of a "trade in" and then when both parties have agreed on the selling price, THEN you throw the trade in:thumbsup:

Just remember, you can go wholesale to wholesale or retail to retail when trading.:thumbsup:
 
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