It's Official.....Brunswick is Junk
- Thread starter Nehalennia
- Start date
I don't disagree with the basic unfairness of it.
I also have a fundamental problem with property taxes in general (you know. . the taxes that the states use to fund schools, among other things).
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Woody
Well-Known Member
If they've squeezed the lower and middle class for all they can then there is only one place left. Nobody really needs a boat over 28' do they?
keokie
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2006
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- 496's, Bravo III's, 2.2:1 Gears
Punishing achievement discourages it. Rewarding laziness encourages it. This is how our tax laws and entitlements are set up. I know a lot of politicians on the left do not like that reality, but it is reality nonetheless
keokie
Well-Known Member
- Dec 27, 2006
- 1,505
- Boat Info
- 2002 310 Sundancer, Westerbeke 4.5 Genset
- Engines
- 496's, Bravo III's, 2.2:1 Gears
Comsnark, I respectfully disagree about the diviseveness of our political structure. It has always been this way. Arguably, it was even more fierce at the time of our founding.
McCain has been losing, in my opinion, because until very recently, he was not divisive enough. He made himself out to be a centrist (name the great centrist leaders in history) and only made few distinctions between himself and Obama. Because of this, style became more important. That has helped Obama.
When conservative run as conservatives, they tend to win BIG. Reagan and Gingrich are great examples. They clearly stated their principles and were happy to be partisans. Americans responded very well. I believe this is because most Americans quietly live their lives as conservatives. As soon as someone comes along to validate their beliefs and support their view of America, they show up in droves.
I'm not excited about voting for McCain, either. I live in AZ and know his politics well. He is conservative on spending and defense, but little else. But, since I follow politics and history closely, I know how dangerous Obama can be to what made this country great. I will vote for McCain because he will do far less harm to America than Obama.
I believe Obama will greatly advance the re-distribution of income (I did not say wealth because the primary target of taxes is income, not wealth, which helps to prevent wealth), appoint judges to accomplish what he and like-minded Americans cannot accomplish at the polls, fail to recognize that peace truly is accomplished through strength. Beyond that , I believe he has made great effort to conceal his true political beliefs. This makes me distrust him. I also think it is why he is known for speaking so well while actually saying nothing.
That reminds me, I do not consider him a great orator. To be a great orator, you need content. He has none. The evidence of this is nobody ever quotes him. At least not on positive statements.
Alright, I'll give my soap box back for just minute. But, only for a minute..... because my wife is calling.
McCain has been losing, in my opinion, because until very recently, he was not divisive enough. He made himself out to be a centrist (name the great centrist leaders in history) and only made few distinctions between himself and Obama. Because of this, style became more important. That has helped Obama.
When conservative run as conservatives, they tend to win BIG. Reagan and Gingrich are great examples. They clearly stated their principles and were happy to be partisans. Americans responded very well. I believe this is because most Americans quietly live their lives as conservatives. As soon as someone comes along to validate their beliefs and support their view of America, they show up in droves.
I'm not excited about voting for McCain, either. I live in AZ and know his politics well. He is conservative on spending and defense, but little else. But, since I follow politics and history closely, I know how dangerous Obama can be to what made this country great. I will vote for McCain because he will do far less harm to America than Obama.
I believe Obama will greatly advance the re-distribution of income (I did not say wealth because the primary target of taxes is income, not wealth, which helps to prevent wealth), appoint judges to accomplish what he and like-minded Americans cannot accomplish at the polls, fail to recognize that peace truly is accomplished through strength. Beyond that , I believe he has made great effort to conceal his true political beliefs. This makes me distrust him. I also think it is why he is known for speaking so well while actually saying nothing.
That reminds me, I do not consider him a great orator. To be a great orator, you need content. He has none. The evidence of this is nobody ever quotes him. At least not on positive statements.
Alright, I'll give my soap box back for just minute. But, only for a minute..... because my wife is calling.
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- Oct 3, 2006
- 4,404
- Boat Info
- 280 Sundancer, Westerbeke MPV generator
- Engines
- twin 5.0's w/BIII drives
yeah, they should tax the boats bigger then ours, but leave ours alone. :thumbsup:
Also, :smt115 if your boat's hull is less then 30' you should only pay $1/gallon for fuel.
Those rich people with bigger boats should have to subsidize our gas. :smt038
(yes - I am kidding)
Woody
Well-Known Member
Pres you do understand that this would make us big boat folk even though we don't have diesels. Can you handle that?
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
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- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
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Stuffing all of my money in a mattress is looking more appealing the closer this election gets.
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Bridog
Well-Known Member
Dude, anchor rollers and bolt on swim platforms dont count. Your fine @ 28'6" :grin:
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
who knows the statistics of how much the boating industry fell during the luxury tax era? I can't seem to find any numbers.
- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
found this in the NY times
"It's hard to be elated when our own government activity created a loss of 30,000 American jobs and destroyed dozens of companies in the process," Mr. Napier said. "And the revenues weren't there. For every dollar that was collected on the luxury tax, we estimated the Federal Government paid out $5 for each dollar collected in unemployment benefits and other costs caused by layoffs. Then, too, a contracting economy brought sales that were subject to the tax to a virtual standstill, causing unemployment, plant closings and foreclosures in the marine industry."
"It's hard to be elated when our own government activity created a loss of 30,000 American jobs and destroyed dozens of companies in the process," Mr. Napier said. "And the revenues weren't there. For every dollar that was collected on the luxury tax, we estimated the Federal Government paid out $5 for each dollar collected in unemployment benefits and other costs caused by layoffs. Then, too, a contracting economy brought sales that were subject to the tax to a virtual standstill, causing unemployment, plant closings and foreclosures in the marine industry."
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dpvandy01
Well-Known Member
- Sep 6, 2007
- 2,535
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- 2007 38 Sundancer
&
2014 Sea Fox 256 Commander
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- Twin 8.1L Close Cooled V-Drives & 300 Yamaha OB
Just my .02
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- Feb 4, 2007
- 7,251
- Boat Info
- 1996 450DA, TNT, Caribe dink w/15hp OB.
- Engines
- 3126 427HP TD transmissions
Oh, I forgot to tell everyone. Some slime ball tree hugger keyed my truck and stuck a gas hog sticker on it. What's the best way to run 10,000 volts to the exterior of a truck?
Pirate
New Member
You can get a spark plug coil from an old car like a model T (look in Hemmings Motor News for suppliers) and connect it to the frame. You can hide a switch or connect it to a relay on a remote. It makes the entire car (at least anything metal) shock you like a spark plug. It worked beautifully on my Jeep. It's illegal, but :huh:....
Although it will be blamed on me it was not:huh:
Well. . .I think you are behaving. Stirring, but behaving. Which is fine.
- - - - - -
There are LOTS of things wrong with the way tax code is implemented right now. I concur that raising taxes is NOT the answer. But at the same time, the high levels of spending at all levels of government is also NOT the answer.
And certainly, the current practice of cutting taxes while increasing spending is flatley irresponsible. Under the current administration, we are simultaneously fighting a war, increasing domestic spending, AND cutting tax rates. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why Government deficits are soaring.
Somehow. . .I don't think increasing Government deficit burdens in a time of prosperity is a good move. For example. . you might decide you need to nationalize the banking system for pennies on the dollar (probably 250 pennies on the dollar) during times of economic turmoil. . .
On this basis alone, there is ample cause to punish the Republican party. The punishing began in 2006. They have not yet fully learned their lesson. IMHO, a Republican win in 2008 will be a validation of current Republican economic policy.
Will the Democrats be better? I dunno. But in 2010, they can be punished if they don't behave. Then we can have a Democrat as President, with a Republican house. That was a successful formula during the Clinton years. . .and I suspect it can be a successful formula once again.
- - - - - - -
[soapbox]
As to the form of taxation. . .I despise much of what is done now. I am strongly against all forms of "value added" and "sales taxes" because of their regressive nature. A rich person can chose not to spend on many things. . but a poor person cannot chose not to spend for the things they buy (like. .. food and heat)
I am not in favor of property taxes of any form. Unless you are making income from it, in which case you should pay appropriate *income* taxes.
I am in favor of a progressive income tax system. Speaking as someone who EARNS well above the national mean income, I honestly don't have a problem paying % wise more than someone on skid row. Similarly, I think someone making $10M a year can readily afford a 50% incremental tax rate.
For all of you who advocate flat taxes, I have three letters for you: AMT.
Eliminating tax deductions would be a good thing overall. I cannot fathom why the 1040 form can't be two pages, including instructions. Even with progressive tax rates.
Having both "income" taxes and "sales taxes" is simple double dipping robbery.
Deficit spending should come out of lawmakers personal pockets. Not mine.
I believe that Social Security has it's place. If you pay taxes. . you should be able to get something back in retirement. If you become disabled at age 45. . . and you have done your bit to support the economy. .. then you should be able to get something back.
There would be no "social security crisis" if the wage tax went ONLY to social security as required by law, and not "general revenue" as is general practice. See my comment about deficit spending above.
I am NOT in favor most of the "welfare" system. If you can't get your act together enough to get yourself fed when you are healthy and young . .. . starvation is a traditional means to limit both animal and human populations.
As for "health care". There are SO many things wrong in health care, we can discuss it elsewhere. I personally am willing to pay my own medical bills. All I need is to get the same health care pricing as my insurance company (it isn't even close!).
[/soapbox]
- - - - - -
There are LOTS of things wrong with the way tax code is implemented right now. I concur that raising taxes is NOT the answer. But at the same time, the high levels of spending at all levels of government is also NOT the answer.
And certainly, the current practice of cutting taxes while increasing spending is flatley irresponsible. Under the current administration, we are simultaneously fighting a war, increasing domestic spending, AND cutting tax rates. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out why Government deficits are soaring.
Somehow. . .I don't think increasing Government deficit burdens in a time of prosperity is a good move. For example. . you might decide you need to nationalize the banking system for pennies on the dollar (probably 250 pennies on the dollar) during times of economic turmoil. . .
On this basis alone, there is ample cause to punish the Republican party. The punishing began in 2006. They have not yet fully learned their lesson. IMHO, a Republican win in 2008 will be a validation of current Republican economic policy.
Will the Democrats be better? I dunno. But in 2010, they can be punished if they don't behave. Then we can have a Democrat as President, with a Republican house. That was a successful formula during the Clinton years. . .and I suspect it can be a successful formula once again.
- - - - - - -
[soapbox]
As to the form of taxation. . .I despise much of what is done now. I am strongly against all forms of "value added" and "sales taxes" because of their regressive nature. A rich person can chose not to spend on many things. . but a poor person cannot chose not to spend for the things they buy (like. .. food and heat)
I am not in favor of property taxes of any form. Unless you are making income from it, in which case you should pay appropriate *income* taxes.
I am in favor of a progressive income tax system. Speaking as someone who EARNS well above the national mean income, I honestly don't have a problem paying % wise more than someone on skid row. Similarly, I think someone making $10M a year can readily afford a 50% incremental tax rate.
For all of you who advocate flat taxes, I have three letters for you: AMT.
Eliminating tax deductions would be a good thing overall. I cannot fathom why the 1040 form can't be two pages, including instructions. Even with progressive tax rates.
Having both "income" taxes and "sales taxes" is simple double dipping robbery.
Deficit spending should come out of lawmakers personal pockets. Not mine.
I believe that Social Security has it's place. If you pay taxes. . you should be able to get something back in retirement. If you become disabled at age 45. . . and you have done your bit to support the economy. .. then you should be able to get something back.
There would be no "social security crisis" if the wage tax went ONLY to social security as required by law, and not "general revenue" as is general practice. See my comment about deficit spending above.
I am NOT in favor most of the "welfare" system. If you can't get your act together enough to get yourself fed when you are healthy and young . .. . starvation is a traditional means to limit both animal and human populations.
As for "health care". There are SO many things wrong in health care, we can discuss it elsewhere. I personally am willing to pay my own medical bills. All I need is to get the same health care pricing as my insurance company (it isn't even close!).
[/soapbox]
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