Porsche 911 vs. C8 Corvette

Great lakes pirate said:
Not so fast Henry Boyd.

"Overall, General Motors (GM)’s products racked up the highest domestic content score with 70.6 percent of the components making up its vehicles assembled in the U.S. - up from 70 percent last year and 58.2 percent across all models (those made in any country). Ford's domestic content increased from 70 percent to 67.6 percent for its U.S.-produced vehicles compared to 55 percent across its entire lineup. At FCA (Fiat Chrysler Automobiles), the percentage remained virtually unchanged with 64.1 percent interior content for U.S.-assembled vehicles and 55 percent for all other products."

https://www.auto123.com/en/news/vehicles-most-american-content-2020/67416/#:~:text=Overall, General Motors (GM),those made in any country).
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Here's a more recent list. Different parameters, but still interesting info.

American Made Index - Most American Cars 2022 | Cars.com
 
Henry Boyd said:
Interesting outlook. You do know profits go to stockholders right? One can own GM stock as easily as Volkswagen, and soon Porsche, regardless of country. That with the amount of overseas content, sources, and production (BMWs built in the US, for example) makes the notion of an “American” or, “German” car kind of nebulous.
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Not only that, but car dealerships are mostly locally owned and employ lots of Americans in high paying jobs. The brand is mostly secondary when it comes to where the money goes when it comes to service and support. The people who do the ongoing work on your car and see that you have the parts you need shop in your town, not Germany or Japan.
 
sbw1 said:
Not only that, but car dealerships are mostly locally owned and employ lots of Americans in high paying jobs. The brand is mostly secondary when it comes to where the money goes when it comes to service and support. The people who do the ongoing work on your car and see that you have the parts you need shop in your town, not Germany or Japan.
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AND by having the German, Japanese, and Korean made cars competing in quality with the Big 3, it makes the American car makers focus on quality.

I recall the absolute American junk of the 70’s until the Toyotas, Datsuns, and Hondas started stealing away car buyers.
 
I'm a "Big 3" fan boy. The money spent on them stays in the US. The headquarters are here. The executives are here. The brick and mortar is here. All this and the dealerships and related employees.
Yep, the Big 3 didn't react to buyers keeping cars longer. Growing up, my dad bought a new car every year when the new models were released. That was a huge event in itself. Cars covered in the showrooms. It was exciting. But, during that time people, like my dad, didn't even think of holding on to their car long. Even when I got out of college and was managing a bank branch, a 2 year car loan was rare. Most were 12-18 months. Then the oil embargo hit and the Big 3 business plan had to completely change. It made for some pretty forgettable car lines. The foreign car manufacturers didn't bring assembly into the US just to help us out and help the US economy. They did it to eliminate import fees. But, anyway...back to watching nascar race in Homestead that I recorded...
 
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DWABoat said:
AND by having the German, Japanese, and Korean made cars competing in quality with the Big 3, it makes the American car makers focus on quality.

I recall the absolute American junk of the 70’s until the Toyotas, Datsuns, and Hondas started stealing away car buyers.
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It wasn’t just the 70s. In September 99 I bought a new Silverado with all the bells & whistles. In January 00 my wife bought an Audi A6 that was equally embellished. Both cost the same at just under $50k. In 07 I was able to convince a dealer to accept the Silverado as a trade on a newer model. By that time the body was rusting out (rockers were almost completely gone & GM no rust warranty worthless), the brake lines had rotted out in several spots and failed in service twice. The rear brake pads were only lasting 9 months between changes, after having replaced both rotors and calipers twice. The Audi on the other hand my wife drove for another ten years to 175k, only had to replace brake pads and rotors twice and never had a brake failure and body showed no sign of rust. Draw your own conclusions, both cost the same, both lived in the same environment. Both had normal service schedules followed as well as replacement of normal wear items.
 
Henry Boyd said:
It wasn’t just the 70s. In September 99 I bought a new Silverado with all the bells & whistles. In January 00 my wife bought an Audi A6 that was equally embellished. Both cost the same at just under $50k. In 07 I was able to convince a dealer to accept the Silverado as a trade on a newer model. By that time the body was rusting out (rockers were almost completely gone & GM no rust warranty worthless), the brake lines had rotted out in several spots and failed in service twice. The rear brake pads were only lasting 9 months between changes, after having replaced both rotors and calipers twice. The Audi on the other hand my wife drove for another ten years to 175k, only had to replace brake pads and rotors twice and never had a brake failure and body showed no sign of rust. Draw your own conclusions, both cost the same, both lived in the same environment. Both had normal service schedules followed as well as replacement of normal wear items.
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I stopped buying American junk years ago….. back then my wife was in love with suburbans. We flipped them every year with her GM discount….. we swapped new engines for a couple years, a trani and one year a rear end….. then enough …..the discount wasn’t worth the pain
 
So, I've been traveling since my original post last week and haven't had sufficient time to respond, but I have read through all of the posts, and as I expected, I certainly got a lot of perspectives and thoughts from the CSR family. I'm going to go back and try to reply to each post, where appropriate, but I thought I'd leave this link on the ZO6 issue. Mind you this is one of the largest Corvette dealers in the Northeast. At the very least I intend on having another discussion with my dealer.

https://www.cioccacorvette.com/z06-reservation.htm
 
I hear/read about how great the Jap cars dependability is and then I drive by Honda, Toyota, whatever dealerships and the service lots are full of cars waiting for what? Oil changes? I don't think so..... And there's this....
Screenshot_20221024-143025_Chrome.jpg
 
I guess I got lucky with my Chevy and GMC trucks. No complaints except for the '99 Chev. Still have my '06, it's a plow truck only now, over 250K miles on it. Rocker panels are gone, mice have moved in but I also found a snake skin shed on the floor so I probably won't have to set traps.:)

My new truck is more a car than a truck, '20 Denali. I like it so far, 50% better mileage than the '06. I'm getting use to not being able to haul much in the little short box. They using more aluminum now, I just found out that big acorns are able to dent my hood.

My wife is on her 3rd Yukon now a '22, only complaint is some things don't work because of lack of chips, I'm told some day we'll get a letter telling us to bring it in for the chips, we'll see I guess. She doesn't want a small vehicle, she travels 100 miles each day for work, she feels the bigger vehicle gives her more protection in an accident. We get 200K at least out of our GM vehicles, I'm satisfied.

The only lemon I had was a 1981 Pontiac T-1000, engine/tranny problems, rear coil springs would break over and over.
 
Henry Boyd said:
It wasn’t just the 70s. In September 99 I bought a new Silverado with all the bells & whistles. In January 00 my wife bought an Audi A6 that was equally embellished. Both cost the same at just under $50k. In 07 I was able to convince a dealer to accept the Silverado as a trade on a newer model. By that time the body was rusting out (rockers were almost completely gone & GM no rust warranty worthless), the brake lines had rotted out in several spots and failed in service twice. The rear brake pads were only lasting 9 months between changes, after having replaced both rotors and calipers twice. The Audi on the other hand my wife drove for another ten years to 175k, only had to replace brake pads and rotors twice and never had a brake failure and body showed no sign of rust. Draw your own conclusions, both cost the same, both lived in the same environment. Both had normal service schedules followed as well as replacement of normal wear items.
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It was the warped rotors and other minor issues with GM cars that caused me to switch to Japanese and German brands. Rotors were shot by 18,000 miles along with the cruise controls that would fail at around 21,000 miles. Had a transmission fail on a Toronado that was 800 miles beyond warranty in two years with no support from the company. These happened on cars that I traded every two years with just 50,000 miles on them. Nothing too major, but the hassle factor and depreciation finally got to me. After the switch it was oil changes and rotate the tires. That was about it. Even the tires still looked great at 50,000 miles.
 
I’ll be honest, I had two brand new GM pickups in the early 2000’s. First one I had some serious issues with it electrically, like it would randomly be in 4wd on start up with no indicators or switch position changes, alarm would go off parked in my garage, unlocked. Final straw was when I offered to leave it at the dealer and let them drive it until it acted up and I was told NO, picked it up and found out they didn’t even fix the recall it was in for. I had that truck 7 months. #2 was a beautiful truck, and was good until the rear differential spider gear pin sheared and destroyed it. The dealer rebuilt the front differential, transfer case, and then listened to me when I told them again that it drive like it had a spool in the rear end. Found chunks and the axle tube was nearly worn in two from parts spinning around in it. It had piston slap that sounded like it was coming apart starting at 17k miles. Never did though and GM offered 100k mile transferable power train coverage for me.
It rusted through in the bed wheel well and cab corners at 3 years old.

I did buy a Ford F150 for my first truck in 15 years and I do like it. Nitpicks a few, sunroof failure I fixed with parts online, water leak from third brake light that I fixed, and shocks that are done at 7 years old. It’s not abused but it is a truck so I probably shouldn’t be too upset, but still disappointing for a $70k vehicle. I won’t buy a new vehicle ever again……
 
Jus Cruisin said:
I hear/read about how great the Jap cars dependability is and then I drive by Honda, Toyota, whatever dealerships and the service lots are full of cars waiting for what? Oil changes? I don't think so..... And there's this.... View attachment 135795
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Your chart looks reasonable to me, but I wonder.

The other day I saw a similar 2022 chart and the Koreans hit the top of the chart.

I wonder which chart was correct?
 
GypsmJim said:
Your chart looks reasonable to me, but I wonder.

The other day I saw a similar 2022 chart and the Koreans hit the top of the chart.

I wonder which chart was correct?
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Something else to understand about charts like JD Power’s Initial Quality Survey is that is based off customers actually bringing their cars in for repairs, and if vehicles are just used like work vehicles, rentals, or just people who don’t care as long as it starts, it is not a useful data point. What vehicles are commonly rentals? Buicks, Dodge, and Chevy are all common rentals and company vehicles. Genesis are that good, and they are a subsidiary of Hyundai (as is Kia).
 
GypsmJim said:
Your chart looks reasonable to me, but I wonder.

The other day I saw a similar 2022 chart and the Koreans hit the top of the chart.

I wonder which chart was correct?
Click to expand...
Look at the title of the chart. It's about INITAL quality. This data is about how things look when the vehicle leaves the show room. My issue with GM is the lack of durability at 18,000 plus miles. My experience with initial quality of GM cars was pretty good. Also have had no initial quality issues with Honda, Porsche and Audi. Most of these have had zero warranty claims over the years of ownership.
 
sbw1 said:
Look at the title of the chart. It's about INITAL quality. This data is about how things look when the vehicle leaves the show room. My issue with GM is the lack of durability at 18,000 plus miles. My experience with initial quality of GM cars was pretty good. Also have had no initial quality issues with Honda, Porsche and Audi. Most of these have had zero warranty claims over the years of ownership.
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Ok, here's 3 years of ownership.....
Screenshot_20221025-093749_Chrome.jpg
 
Ram surprises me. I've been going back and forth with F150 and Ram for 20 years or so and I never had any significant issues with Ram. My current F150 did have a major warranty repair earlier this year. The electric drive unit was replaced. An $8,000 warranty claim. But that's really the only dependability issue I've had since 1999. In 99 I flew up to Detroit to buy a Lightning pickup that was just released and no one in Florida would deal. It was worth the flight. But the truck engine had piston slap at start up. Forged pistons. Decided to take it anyway and drove straight through to my home in Florida and the engine was replaced down there. Sounded like a diesel clatter for about 30 seconds until the piston expanded.
 
I'm a bit of a Ford truck fan and am on my 5th straight F150. I've had incredible reliability until the current one. It's an 18 Raptor with the 3.5L Ecoboost HO motor with 450hp. I've had the cam phasers replaced twice and one, dead on the side of the road, repair due to dealer incompetence. All times were under warranty but each time they had the truck for some time. I'm really not a fan of that drivetrain. Hate the turbo lag.

My prior truck was a limited with the 6.2L engine. Never in for repairs other than maintenance for 128k miles. Wish that drivetrain was still available.

I'm glad to see porsche ranked so high. Mine has been incredible considering the abuse it endures.
 
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