You will get a lot of feedback I am sure. The stringers midships may not hold the engines, but they are the entire structure for the hull. That cost estimate may actually be low. Cruisers are very hard to completely rebuild stringers. One of the CSR members here did a full rebuild of stringers and transom on his 268 I think. So he may have some idea of his costs. This may be a situation of cutting losses, depending on what he paid for the boat. Not good.

 

First I think I might throw up - after that I don't know what he could do, you almost certainly have to fix it, no way to sell it at this point, at least not for any real $$. Obviously the survey missed this, or at least missed the extent of the rot. Have a conversation with Marine Max, maybe they can help with fixing it. You can bet the previous owner knew about it and that is why he got rid of it - you wonder if Marina Max knew how bad it is.

Some how fix it and enjoy the boat or take an unbelievable hit on selling it.

 

Chances are very good, the cost to repair will exceed the value of the boat. If that is the case then the unfortunate truth is that he is going to have to walk away with whatever he can get from salvage.

It does look like there may have been some fraud but I am not equipped to advise on any legal recourse. A lawyer might be in his future but do not discuss the particulars of that on an open forum, at least until after the matter is settled.

 

Make sure they are not calling the white foam under the floor in the mid cabin mold. I discovered the hard way what a leaking ice maker line can do over a period of years, where it was leaking between the outer hull and the inner hull, which feeds to...... the floor under the mid cabin, which is normally filled with flotation foam from the engine bulkhead to the keel to the front bulkhead. I discovered mine when unscrewing the water heater under the aft settee, and had a 3 inch head of water coming out of the screw holes. Took a while to figure out the the water was coming from such a large and non-accessible space.
I wound up removing the mid cabin table leg mount, and cut a hole to the keel through the foam. Vacuumed out water for days. It also rotted the cockpit flooring in the coaming lockers behind the ice maker where Sea Ray had neglected to completely wrap the plywood with fiberglass. I cut all that out, and replaced with 3/4 marine ply SATURATED with resin and glass mat. I then ripped all the carpeting out of those coaming lockers, and painted the entire space with bilge paint. no more standing water, no more mold, no more rot.

 

Did you have stringer involvement?

 

Could the source be the fresh water tank leak? Not familiar with the location on the 370.

 

The water tank is under the forward Vee berth. It could leak into the mid bilge via the holes cut for the air conditioner hoses. I think there would be a lot of wet carpet before it damaged the mid bilge.

 

after peeling back all the rot, do you know where the water is coming from?
I have a 1996 370DA and mine has water in the same area and I can't seem to find where its coming from. no rot (yet). looks like i need to get this fixed before it rots!

 

I would certainly have your buddy contact the surveyor and possibly make a claim on his errors and omissions insurance if he has it. That is certainly a major problem to have missed.

 

Per the OP the surveyor found the rot. Guy should have had the seller fix before purchase.

 

It’s a total loss. Make sure it’s insured then sink it.

“Where there’s smoke there’s fire.”

Where there’s one rotten stringer...

 

Captain,

I realize you are only joking about the insurance thing... ....but, even if someone was planning a nefarious scheme like that (sinking, burning, theft, etc), insurance companies would require a survey prior to coverage. Oh well...Plan B?

BTW...I completely agree on the total loss issue. Buying used boats is such a pain in the arse for “non-wealthy” people like me that really love boating. We always end up getting someone else’s rubbish. I am very frustrated that some schmuck out there sold his boat knowing it was trashed and knowing some poor soul would buy it not knowing it was trashed.

Ski, please make sure your bud understands I feel his pain. Probably all of us do. I have been in his position before on a lesser scale and it feels terrible. Took me 12 years to repair the rotted boat. Remind him that a pleasure boat will never be a good financial investment - it will always cost lots of money. Sometimes a lot up front and sometimes a lot over a long time. In his case, the expense is coming up front.

 

I have dealt with hidden rot, although on a much smaller boat (24ft).

It is amazing how water can wick through plywood to the other side of the boat. You can bet the farm that rotten wood permeates that boat in all directions.

Considering the money involved with that type of purchase, I would go ahead and consult with an attorney. If no legal options were available, sell it as a project boat and cut losses.

 

I get the "total loss" thing.......but this guy likely paid 50-60k for this boat - what if he blew an engine on the first cruise? sink it? No, put a new 10k (likely more) motor in it and move on......same thing here - fix it right and move on - as he is finding out, problems like this get more involved as you dig, but I assure you, there is an end - and its not "every piece of wood in the boat" I know its too late, but the BIG mistake here was accepting the boat in the first place - plenty of used boats for sale - it seems people get "vested" in a boat after paying for a survey. As for the repainted bilge, its common to freshen up the paint on an older boat so it shows better - that doesn't necessarily prove any ill intent on the part of the PO.

 

He paid $81,000...the seller than took $4000 off to fix it

 

The first estimate of $4000 to fix a stringer was incorrect. The second estimate of $10k-$20k to repair will prove incorrect again IMO.

Ive seen estimates for stringer, mounts, deck, or transom rot combinations that start at $30k and up as high as $75k.

When total cost exceeds the value insurance appraisals deem the vehicle as a total loss. I assumed the owner had insurance.

 

The first estimate of $4000 to fix a stringer was incorrect. The second estimate of $10k-$20k to repair will prove incorrect again IMO.

Ive seen estimates for stringer, mounts, deck, or transom rot combinations that start at $30k and up as high as $75k.

When total cost exceeds the value insurance appraisals deem the vehicle as a total loss. I assumed the owner had insurance.

yes, he is starting this all by putting a claim in on his insurance.

 

Malpractice in my view vs dishonesty.

 

I agree with unlikely insurance coverage since the water intrusion/rot was known prior to purchase. The extent of rot was the unknown. Also think legal action is unlikely going to be of help. The surveyor would likely say he brought the rot/water damage to the potential buyer’s attention, which was his job. Marine Max would likely say they took the boat on good faith from the original owner and no problems appeared on their inspection. The original owner would likely say they had no clue the rot was there when they “freshened up” the bilge area.

That is why my initial recommendation was to consult with an attorney just to see what the state laws are. Maybe a certain seller buy-back period or something. If that washes out, the new owner has to determine, from a professional boat repair service (not a surveyor), whether it is financially viable to fix the boat, sell it to someone as a project/fixer upper, or as a salvage for motors, drives, electronics, etc.
I still think, with the little information we have here, this is the best course of action. Either way, it really sucks for the buyer, and I wish him the best of luck with this terrible situation.

 

This is the cold hard truth.

 

Insurance will not cover an existing condition. Read the first paragraph in your survey; only visible issues are noted and they do not disassemble anything during a survey.
So, this is not a total loss by any stretch.
Peel back the onion, expose and remove any damaged material then build it back. Even if stringers and bulkheads are impacted it's fixable and simple work. This is only wood work and fiberglass layup. In the end correct the issue that caused the problem.

 

ttmott,
Completely agree with you on this one. Anything built can be rebuilt. Fiberglassing is not super technical but it is very labor intensive. If the new owner can do the work himself, certainly financially viable - been there done that myself. If labor cost is involved, different story!!!

 

Had a boat surveyed in the late 90s was looking at a 1980’s 31 foot vanguard express which appear to have a soft area that the surveyor noticed on the cabin floor during the sea trial he requested that the owner and yard peel the carpet back and drill an access hole big enough to see what was going on underneath turned out to be completely rotted out stringers from a leaking water tank.Had he only “noted “ rot in what he’s saw, this would’ve been the same situation for me... Got my deposit back and walked away from the boat but I heard later on that it was $25,000 to repair all the rot on that boat .My surveyor was top notch and went the extra mile and made them investigate exactly what was going on ,that to me is a thorough survey ,so I don’t necessarily agree with the above statements that they won’t rip into or disassemble a suspect area .The right surveyor knows how to have this accomplished. Surveyor (Frank Abbey)

 

Standard Language (get out of jail free card) in all of the surveys I've had View attachment 80034 :

 

Here is the wording in my survey on our Crownline:
LIMITATIONS OF SURVEY

This vessel was surveyed without removals of any parts, including fittings, tacked carpet, screwed or nailed boards, anchors and chain, fixed partitions, instruments, clothing, spare parts and miscellaneous materials in the bilges and lockers, or other fixed or semi-fixed items. Locked compartments or otherwise inaccessible areas that would also preclude inspection.

This survey contains opinions and observations based on the surveyor’s skill, experience and training as a marine surveyor. Under no circumstances shall this report be understood to constitute a guarantee, warranty, expressed or implied, of any kind. Hull soundings and moisture meter readings on a fiberglass hull, structure, stringers are a partial analysis and it is not construed to be a final evaluation. Often, limited access is afforded to the internal hull laminate composite and framing of the vessel, thus making it very difficult to arrive at a definitive all-encompassing statement regarding the condition of the hull. Where suspect areas exist, core testing, which is considered to be destructive testing, should be considered and is not included in the scope of the survey.

 

Anymore updates?

 

my friend met with another surveyor sent by his insurance company. The surveyor said who ever did the original survey should have told him to run. I guess the person who did the original survey has only been doing it for less than two years and does not have much experience. He said the boat is safe to use for another year...so my buddy is gonna save up, bite bullet and fix it next winter. Surveyor said it might have been that way for years. Lesson learned is if something needs fixing, make sure YOU get to pick who fixes and it have the seller pay for it all.

 

Well that stinks for sure. Maybe he can try fixing it himself?

 

Sounds like buying a house...the appraisal always seem to come in right around the sale price then the loan gets approved! Voila! Everyone gets paid! Realtor, Closing Agent, Title Attorney, and Lending Bank.

 

Its like the years before 2008 all over again! I wonder if one of the banks is packaging up the boat loans and turning them into a high yield investment vehicle.

 

Chill down. No portable generators here or Dems vs GOP. Just a lot of sympathy or empathy for the OPs buddy.

 

If you chuck a spear, expect one to be thrown back, perhaps with a grenade tied to it. I'm not sure when this site got to judging decision quality over decision guidance. but it's happening on all threads. Have a cocktail, and help someone out.
I'm going to work on the boat (or go for a ride, which ever happens first)

 

Any update?

 

Funny you ask....I just got a call from my buddy and he states the insurance is going to cover it 100%!! Crazy!!!!! He is very relieved!

 

Wow! That's awesome!

 

By cover it do you mean insurance will cover repairs or total it?

 

They will pay for all the repairs and he has State Farm Insurance

 

Funny, I have State Farm for auto and home and just received a quote for the boat. It's 20% less than my current premium but this story really helps my decision

 

I had State Farm but they don't offer freeze coverage of any kind, and I store outside in freezing weather.