Need advice on replacing my Polk Momo speakers with JL M770-CCS

ChuckW · Apr 6, 2010

To all you audio experts I see out there...

So I have the SR premium stereo system in my 260. First, let me say that I am so underimpressed, no dissappointed, with the lousy installation that SR did with this system. From the cutouts being hacked to speakers coming lose, to wiring being a mess behind the "curtain". Enough said.

My cockpit speakers are Polk Momo's woofers with 1" tweeters and a subwoofer. They died after 1 year, had them replaced under warranty. They died again. Rather than go after warranty on it just to get the same POS speakers, I went out and bought JL M770-CCS to replace them with. I'll leave the functioning stuff in place until such time as it needs replacing. So I'll have 2 new woofers, 2 new tweeters and the same old Polk subwoofer and crossovers off the Clarion amp.

My goal, drop in the new speakers and "adjust/tune" the system to get the best sound I can. I'm not looking to dump money into upgrading stuff that is still working.

So here is my question(s). Will I have to do anything special in terms of wiring to hook up the M770s? As I understand it the M770s have cross-over built in, you feed the tweeters right off the woofer and the woofer from the amp. My current wiring has a separate Polk crossover component with separate feeds out to the woofers and tweeters.

Should I just plug in the M770s as is?
Do I have to do anything special to the M770s in this config?
Am I better off dropping the Polk crossover component and running the amp feed out to the M770s?
What else should I be looking at in way of tuning the amp and other components to get the best sound out of it?

I've attached my current wiring diagram per SR for reference, along with the JL M770 wiring diagram.

Thanks,

Kreole Kid · Apr 6, 2010

Chuck, I would definitely take the Polk crossovers out and replace them with the new J.L. crossovers and tune the system from that point.

Good Luck

ChuckW · Apr 6, 2010

Bel_Mar_Pointe said:
Connect the amp out wiring directly to the M770s, bypassing the old crossovers. Not sure of the speaker efficiency comparrison so you may need to tweak the amp gain or filters if so equipped.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. Regarding the tuning of the amp gain and filters (the amp has them) how best to zero in on the "right" spot?

Bel_Mar_Pointe · Apr 6, 2010

Connect the amp out wiring directly to the M770s, bypassing the old crossovers. Not sure of the speaker efficiency comparrison so you may need to tweak the amp gain or filters if so equipped.

Cincy Aquaholic · Apr 6, 2010

Is it possible your Polks are dying because of the crappy clarion amp?? That would be my guess. Or a horrible tune of the amp. The polks are decent to good speaker. Not as good ss the JL but should last. I think your amp is the weak link and I sure as heck wouldn't run those great new speakers off it. Btw, I did huge all JL audio install on my previous boat. Tuned the amps with my laptop by playing a sign wave cd and a voltage gauge. Its about as "dialed in" as you can get.

Here is a pic of the JL amps. I'll post of pic of my laptop hook up later.

ChuckW · Apr 6, 2010

Cincy Aquaholic said:
Is it possible your Polks are dying because of the crappy clarion amp?? That would be my guess. Or a horrible tune of the amp. The polks are decent to good speaker. Not as good ss the JL but should last. I think your amp is the weak link and I sure as heck wouldn't run those great new speakers off it. Btw, I did huge all JL audio install on my previous boat. Tuned the amps with my laptop by playing a sign wave cd and a voltage gauge. Its about as "dialed in" as you can get.

Here is a pic of the JL amps. I'll post of pic of my laptop hook up later.

I suppose that's possible, but I wouldn't know how to diagnose that. This time around I had one blown woofer and one blown tweeter (opposite channels). When I pull them there was corrosion on the back sides so I assumed they were the sole source of failure.

How can I be sure?

Where can I get that CD you mention and what software do I need to run on my laptop?

Thanks,

Cincy Aquaholic · Apr 6, 2010

If you look on JL's website check out the pdf's for their amps. The ones I had gave instructions on how to do this. You basically burn a wave file on a cd of that "signal". Google it and you'll find it. It's just a constant tone that should play for about a minute. Or put it on an iPod. You just want to be able to play the file through your head unit. Then you use a voltage gauge at the out puts on the amps to adjust the gains. The JL specs will give an optimal range of output voltage.

PS it's a sine wave. My bad.

ChuckW · Apr 6, 2010

Cincy Aquaholic said:
If you look on JL's website check out the pdf's for their amps. The ones I had gave instructions on how to do this. You basically burn a wave file on a cd of that "signal". Google it and you'll find it. It's just a constant tone that should play for about a minute. Or put it on an iPod. You just want to be able to play the file through your head unit. Then you use a voltage gauge at the out puts on the amps to adjust the gains. The JL specs will give an optimal range of output voltage.

PS it's a sine wave. My bad.

Cool, thanks :thumbsup:

Hampton · Apr 6, 2010

I have the 770's in the bullet shaped enclosures. They are very impressive with a good amp. They'll handle some bass too.

Cincy Aquaholic · Apr 6, 2010

I have no idea what happened to the size of this pic but this is all I can come up with. You can at least see I have it hooked up to the amp and I was dialing in the voltage with the gain control.

Cincy Aquaholic · Apr 6, 2010

Here's the section from the JL amp manual I was referring to. I have no idea if this will work as expected with the Clarions.

Input Sensitivity Level Setting
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]JL Audio amplifiers utilizing the Regulated Intelligent Power Supply (R.I.P.S.) allow delivery of their rated power when connected to any load impedance from 1.5 - 4Ω per channel and when connected to a charging system with any voltage from 11 - 14.5V. This design is beneficial for many reasons. One of these reasons is ease of setup. Because each JL Audio amplifier will always deliver the same amount of power within its operational range of impedances and supply voltages, the maximum, unclipped output is very predictable.
This makes setting the gain structure via the input sensitivity controls very simple. Following the directions below will allow the user to adjust the input sensitivity of the amplifier(s) simply and easily in just a few minutes using equipment which is commonly available in installation bays.
[/FONT][/FONT]Necessary Equipment
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]• Digital AC Voltmeter
• CD with a sine-wave test tone recorded at 0 dB reference level in the frequency range to be amplified for that set of channels (50 Hz for subwoofer channels, 1 kHz for a midrange application). The CleanSweep® Calibration Disc contains the appropriate test tones and is available for sale at http://store.jlaudio.com Do not use attenuated test tones (-10 dB, -20 dB, etc.).
[/FONT][/FONT]The Nine-Step Procedure[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro](follow this procedure for each pair of channels)
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]1) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Disconnect the speaker(s) from the amplifier’s "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Front Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Rear Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" connectors.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]2) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Turn off all processing on the source unit (bass/treble, loudness, EQ, etc.). Set fader control to center position and subwoofer level control to 3/4 of maximum (if used to drive the 300/4v2).
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]3) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Switch the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Voltage[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" to "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Low[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and turn the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" control on both sets of channels all the way down.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]4) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Set the source unit volume to 3/4 of full volume. If either set of channels is being driven by a source unit’s dedicated subwoofer output, also adjust the source unit’s subwoofer level control to 3/4 of maximum output. This will allow for reasonable gain overlap with moderate clipping at full volume.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]5) [/FONT][/FONT]Using the listings on pages 16 & 17, find the [FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]configuration that matches your specific speaker impedance as connected to the 300/4v2. Note whether your channels are in stereo or bridged and use the appropriate listing section. Once you have found your configuration, note the target voltage for input sensitivity adjustment for each channel section. This target voltage is listed in parentheses as "(set to "x" volts)".
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]6) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Verify that you have disconnected the speakers before proceeding. Play a track with an appropriate sine wave (within the frequency range to be amplified by each set of channels) at 3/4 source unit volume.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]7) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Connect the AC voltmeter to the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Front Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" or "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Rear Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" connectors of the amplifier. If the channel pair is operating in stereo, it is only necessary to measure one channel. If bridged, make sure you test the voltage at the correct connectors (L+ and R–).
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]8) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Increase the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" control until the target voltage is delivered for that set of channels.If excessive voltage is read on either set of channels with the control at minimum (full counterclockwise), switch the appropriate "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Voltage[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" switch to "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]High[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and re-adjust.
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]9) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Once you have adjusted each set of channels to its maximum low-distortion output level, reconnect the speaker(s). The "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" controls can now be adjusted downward if either or both sets of channels requires attenuation to achieve the desired system balance.
[/FONT][/FONT]

ChuckW · Apr 6, 2010

Cincy Aquaholic said:
Here's the section from the JL amp manual I was referring to. I have no idea if this will work as expected with the Clarions.

Input Sensitivity Level Setting
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]JL Audio amplifiers utilizing the Regulated Intelligent Power Supply (R.I.P.S.) allow delivery of their rated power when connected to any load impedance from 1.5 - 4Ω per channel and when connected to a charging system with any voltage from 11 - 14.5V. This design is beneficial for many reasons. One of these reasons is ease of setup. Because each JL Audio amplifier will always deliver the same amount of power within its operational range of impedances and supply voltages, the maximum, unclipped output is very predictable. [/FONT]
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]This makes setting the gain structure via the input sensitivity controls very simple. Following the directions below will allow the user to adjust the input sensitivity of the amplifier(s) simply and easily in just a few minutes using equipment which is commonly available in installation bays.[/FONT]
[/FONT]Necessary Equipment
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]• Digital AC Voltmeter[/FONT]
[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]• CD with a sine-wave test tone recorded at 0 dB reference level in the frequency range to be amplified for that set of channels (50 Hz for subwoofer channels, 1 kHz for a midrange application). The CleanSweep® Calibration Disc contains the appropriate test tones and is available for sale at http://store.jlaudio.com Do not use attenuated test tones (-10 dB, -20 dB, etc.).[/FONT]
[/FONT]The Nine-Step Procedure[FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro](follow this procedure for each pair of channels)[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]1) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Disconnect the speaker(s) from the amplifier’s "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Front Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Rear Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" connectors.[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]2) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Turn off all processing on the source unit (bass/treble, loudness, EQ, etc.). Set fader control to center position and subwoofer level control to 3/4 of maximum (if used to drive the 300/4v2).[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]3) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Switch the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Voltage[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" to "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Low[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and turn the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" control on both sets of channels all the way down.[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]4) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Set the source unit volume to 3/4 of full volume. If either set of channels is being driven by a source unit’s dedicated subwoofer output, also adjust the source unit’s subwoofer level control to 3/4 of maximum output. This will allow for reasonable gain overlap with moderate clipping at full volume.[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]5) [/FONT][/FONT]Using the listings on pages 16 & 17, find the [FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]configuration that matches your specific speaker impedance as connected to the 300/4v2. Note whether your channels are in stereo or bridged and use the appropriate listing section. Once you have found your configuration, note the target voltage for input sensitivity adjustment for each channel section. This target voltage is listed in parentheses as "(set to "x" volts)".[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]6) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Verify that you have disconnected the speakers before proceeding. Play a track with an appropriate sine wave (within the frequency range to be amplified by each set of channels) at 3/4 source unit volume.[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]7) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Connect the AC voltmeter to the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Front Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" or "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Rear Speaker Outputs[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" connectors of the amplifier. If the channel pair is operating in stereo, it is only necessary to measure one channel. If bridged, make sure you test the voltage at the correct connectors (L+ and R–).[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]8) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Increase the "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" control until the target voltage is delivered for that set of channels.If excessive voltage is read on either set of channels with the control at minimum (full counterclockwise), switch the appropriate "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Voltage[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" switch to "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]High[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" and re-adjust.[/FONT]
[/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]9) [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Once you have adjusted each set of channels to its maximum low-distortion output level, reconnect the speaker(s). The "[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]Input Sens.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro][FONT=Minion Pro,Minion Pro]" controls can now be adjusted downward if either or both sets of channels requires attenuation to achieve the desired system balance. [/FONT]
[/FONT]

Thanks for all the help. I'll let you know how I make out, once the speakers arrive (waiting for shipment).

ChuckW · Apr 14, 2010

Well, the speakers arrived and today I went about putting them in. Regarding the wiring, I chose to use the existing wiring as is and leave the Polk Crossovers in line for now. The reason being, when I opened up the location in my boat where the AMP is, there was no way to get at the speaker wiring to re-do the connections without major dismantling of the compartment it's housed in. Easily a 1 to 2 day job just to do that. So I'll save that for another day.

The M770s are a bit bigger than the Polk Momos I replaced, so I had to do some work to open up the holes. The tweeters, however, were a bit smaller than the Polk's so that required some futzing as well.

Once I got the holes sorted out, the units plugged in, and cranked up nicely. They do sound better than what I had, and I'm sure if I rip out the Polk Crossovers and AMP and go with a JL AMP I could get it really humming, but I'm happy with the way it worked out for now.

Thanks everyone!

Need advice on replacing my Polk Momo speakers with JL M770-CCS

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