I was at the boat show here in Stockholm and most boat manufacturers said they almost did not sell a single new open boat in the Nordic region 30-45ft. It's quite a difference between the weather in Stockholm and Miami. I look to trade up to and will not buy any more open boats. In Scandinavia is a hard top the best option. But if I had lived in Miami, I probably would not have chosen a hard top.

 

We moved up from a 30' Chaparral Signature 300 to a 2010 Sea Ray 450 Sundancer. Our Chaparral had a canvas Bimini top and front, side and aft canvas/isinglass panels. Although we live in Seattle, it still gets quite hot in the summer and in the past I have even gotten heat stroke when we cruised all day with the Bimini top down. Over time we realized that even if we took most of the canvas off, I needed the Bimini top to stay up to protect me from the sun. Over time as the boat got older and the isinglass panels started deteriorating, we were having issues with trying to cruise when it was raining because we would get pelted in the face with wind and rain where the isinglass panels met the windshield.

Now with the Sea Ray with a fully enclosed hard top and windshield, it's like night and day. When it's hot, we can either open the front vents and let air flow through the cabin or we can run the generator and turn on the AC. When it's cold out, we run the gen and run the heat. We're always comfortable now and it's almost like a different type of boating. Previously we felt like we were roughing it - more like camping in our 30'. In the new boat it's pure luxury and comfort. At this point and with our previous experience we would not consider going back to a boat without a hard top and enclosed windshield. If you really want the experience of running with the wind/sun, etc, then get a runabout to do that but for longer range cruising, we absolutely love our 450 for the comfort, the practicality, the look and style of it. We also have a sunroof (sky hatch) which we can use when it's not too hot.

Best of luck in your search! There are a few 450 DAs available in your area. If it's in your budget, I highly recommend this layout. The cockpit and salon are so well designed and the living space feels very open with tons of storage. Feel free to PM me if you need more information on our boat!

Sandy

 

We bought our boat in part because of the enclosed helm. Sun exposure is a real killer over time. We go boating in 40 degrees and rain as well as hot, humid and brutally hot weather. We could not do this in comfort with canvas. We enjoy this boat more than any others we have owned.

 

I was back and forth before I bought my boat if I would miss the wind in my hair and the sun beating down on me..

Now i couldn't be any happier...

Enclosed helm is the bomb diggity!!


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All due respect to my friends from the North but, I couldn't imagine having a completely enclosed bridge (even though I've never owned one). I've been on one and it just didn't seem like I was boating. I love the wind and sun. I live in Florida as well. We boat all year long. In my opinion, a hard top, Isinglass, and an A/C'd bridge is ideal.

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about...nice boat Reelsly. Our first choices right now are the 47 sedan bridge and the Meridian 441...both would have the hardtop with Isinglass with smiley screens and bridge ac. Our choices are still evolving as well.

I really appreciate the comments so far. A couple of comments seem to suggest open air means no cover, so for clarity....I like the hardtop, don't like the hard glass enclosure. Some earlier DA models have smaller openings than others. My 340 opening is huge....thus so is the canvas. I can always put smiley screens in an isinglass enclosure.

Along with the question about enclosed helm, we are still considering DA v DB. I do like the layout of the 2010 450 DA, and it has another tough to find feature on many DA's....the captain sits on one side, the mate on the other. We don't like the single doublewide seat.

Sandydlc...pm coming.

 

Our 420 has the "smaller openings" in the upper windshield that you mention. One key issue for me was that on our 360 the windshield was about 50/50 glass (lower) and Makrolon (upper) and the SST horizontal frame was directly in my line of sight when I was seated. On our 420 the lower glass is 75% and the horizontal frame is higher so I can see easier. In the Seattle area I still like the ability to take out the vinyl windshield pieces in the summer when its really hot. We don't have A/C in the cockpit like Sandy does on their newer 450.

 

Thanks Larry. Your model is the very one I'm speaking of. I love that. Wife and I realize we need to get on the water in a model like yours and like Sandy's. I also look at the older 54 DA's.

 

The choice of iesenglass vs. real glass needs to be made in the context of where you boat. We do a lot of running miles offshore for hours at a time. It can be cold more often than hot. It is often windy with spray hitting the windshield. These conditions make real glass an attractive choice. The ability to keep sight lines free of spray with good wipers and the cockpit dry and temperature controlled when things get sloppy add safety and enjoyment to the experience of cruising. I remember our canvas days when a string of rainy days meant almost all of our clothing was damp with no way to dry it out. Tight air conditioned spaces keep you more comfortable. We still get too much sun on vacations but having the space to get away from it is important to us.

 

I like your boat. Tiara is so strong.

Your post emphasizes my original post which mentions I boat in south and southwest Florida. Beautiful water... lots of sun. Give me the air and the water, block the sun. I don't need or want a glassed in helm.

My wife and I enjoy the minimal shade provided by the 340 canvas. My fishing boat walkaround has a better hardtop for shade. I've commented elsewhere that shade is something Sea Ray seems to ignore in favor of looks. Even the sedan bridge hardtop favors the angles of the lower boat, leaving a major portion of the bridge both fore and aft open to the sun. For reference, look at the Meridian 441 and 541. Both look great and cover the entire bridge.

The newer larger DA's are great except they want me to sit inside and pilot the boat. I don't want to sit inside. I don't want to be forced to get a sedan bridge just to get a fresh air cruise.

For clarity.... South Florida, Southwest Florida.... that's where I boat. Open air means overhead cover with isinglass... enclosed means overhead cover and glass all around.

 

My hard top was a custom job out of Carolina. I wouldn't own a larger boat without one. The difference is night and day in hot and cold weather when compared to the same boat with canvas.

 

I don't ever want to mess with zippers, snaps, isinglass, or leaks again. I love the glass. The essential keys are a strong AC unit and ceramic window tint. On the hottest, oppressive summer days, I drop the aft curtains and crank the AC, keeping it at 75 inside the cockpit at worst. The season starts sooner and ends later. Cockpit AC is a season extender.

 

All responders with glass.... are you still feeling the water? On my 340 I look starboard and there's the water. Not looking through a window.

As I responded to a return pm from Sandy I realized my bias is based on being on a 400 motor yacht, the wedge edition... full glass on the bridge complimented with full isinglass. I was in a room on the bridge of the boat. Who wants that unless it's a trawler.

 

Just ran my new to me 48da 30 hours over 3 days from vt to Long Island. Hit every type of weather - cold, hot, fog, drizzle, pouring rain. Combo of enclosed windshield design and ability to run with aft canvas on in rain and cold was a complete game changer over my 44da, even with the cockpit air / heat on the 44 with ez2cy front panels. Not sure what my next boat may be, but it will not have canvas facing forward!


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shinsr....does it still feel and sound like you're on the water? I just mentioned to my wife it could feel like a covertible... she said yes but you can't roll down the windows. Good point.

Also, can the passenger sit facing forward comfortably on your new boat?

 

No roll down windows....No problem!!!!! Tell her...."OK...That settles it. I'll go get us a Palm Beach Avalon 50." Problem solved.

 

I love my cockpit a/c with Isenglass. Extends both seasons but when not needed open her up !

 

I love the 2000 54'. I know the boat well. The one I know does the same thing...isinglass and ac. the HUGE cockpit is so nice. It is also on my shortlist.

 

Yes - my boat feels no difft than my 44 - keep in mind I never removed my front vinyl panels, so never had the full wind in my hair experience (nor do I want it!). Key is that both boats have vent windows in the front windshield, and this boat has independent vents on each side of windshield. Those small vents let a large amount of air in, more than enough to keep my wife happy - she must have air movement in cars and boats! Yes, my boat has both a companion seat as well as a full port side lounger on the upper helm. Even with windshield and hardtop, if you sit in lower cockpit you def get the open boat feel.


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Yes - my boat feels no difft than my 44 - keep in mind I never removed my front vinyl panels, so never had the full wind in my hair experience (nor do I want it!). Key is that both boats have vent windows in the front windshield, and this boat has independent vents on each side of windshield. Those small vents let a large amount of air in,

Are you saying there are 2 additional vents to the bigger center windshield vents to allow in fresh air? Are these vents on the earlier 2005+ 48DA's as well. I've never noticed them.

 

I agree with above post... Windows vents open and plenty on wind in your hair...

We were running back from Fire Island yesterday and the weather went from fantastic to cold... Was able to press a button, closed everything up.. I don't miss my canvas windows at all...


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There is no doubt now that we need to spend some time on an enclosed helm boat. The responses are compelling. No one who responded who has made the move regrets the move.

 

I think you're right. You need to test drive a couple of boats. Even a video won't help you to feel what it's like to ride with an enclosed windshield and hard top.

Have you seen this video review? http://on.aol.com/video/sea-ray-450-sundancer-boat-review-517380260

Good luck!

 

If we go with a Sundancer I want the open helm of the 2004 44 Sundancer, and the helm and cockpit layout of the 2010 450 Sundancer. The 44 has a smaller opening so canvas isn't as bulky. The 450 has the companion seat on the port side... I need my space. Wife likes the 450 aft cockpit seating being on the port side so she can see me and not be behind me...she's a sweetheart that way. She also says the cabin of the 450 looks nice, especially the media room. We like the separate head and shower.

I haven't seen any 450's online that have enclosed the aft cockpit with screened canvas. My 340 has that, black mesh, surprisingly private and bug free.

We are a year away, maybe 18 months... it's fun looking and making as many errors and discoveries in my head before I start sea-trialing and make a mistake with my wallet.

 

We like the separate head and shower.

We love this feature about our boat however it looks like Sea Ray's getting away from this layout for some reason.

 

Just went from a 2005 420Da to a 2010 540DA. The sunroof along with side windows that roll up and the center window (that rolls up as well), will give you the convertible feeling you are looking for. We just ran the boat for 3 days crossing 285 Nautical miles. We had all kinds of weather (sunny and warm, pouring rain and extensive fog). The cockpit adapts to all these conditions thanks to the features mentioned above.
This has been the best boating experience so far.....

 

Just went from a 2005 420Da to a 2010 540DA. The sunroof along with side windows that roll up and the center window that rolls up as well will give you the convertible feeling you are looking for. We just ran the boat for 3 days crossing 285 Nautical miles. We had all kinds of weather (sunny and warm, pouring rain and extensive fog). The cockpit adapts to all these conditions thanks to the features mentioned above.
This has been the best boating experience so far.....

Your post is a nice testament given the open air feel of the 420, a model I have ridden on with friends. I mostly think I want to stay with the Sundancer versus Sedan Bridge because I think it's a sexier look and it will have fewer bridge restrictions. My wife prefers the sedan bridge because we plan to spend weeks to months on board, yet might be coming around to the new dancers because of the larger windows below, Knowing the 540 has the windows as you described...this could be a game changer. Thanks for posting Steve. Your description is right on the money.

 

I love the Sundancer/Express style boat, but even with the new bigger hull side windows I'd get a little cabin fever after 8 weeks. You're not going to want to be sweating in the cockpit every time you want to look out the windows. Even with cockpit AC (i have it) it can only do so much to ward of the S. Florida heat.

 

My 340 canvas doesn't leak, fits well...it's just cumbersome. In southwest florida I would never be without a bimini or hardtop for extending cruising. We cruise 8-10 hours a day at 8mph...with some spurts at 20 to exercise the engines. Lending to the feeling of dissociation from the water on the motoryacht could also have been the height above the water. I'm sure one gets used to the height and it becomes a non-factor. We have cruised short periods with the canvas in place. It just doesn't feel the same. Granted, the 340 has a single power vent on the windshield, no side vents...so when the windshield glass is up...that's all the outside you get. It isn't about airflow, it's about being connected with the water. The 540 could be a remedy... or the older 48... or a bridge boat. Or, like height of the water, maybe it's something one gets used to. Maybe over time the advantages of no canvas (as stated in some posts here) far outweigh the open air feel. Maybe...say on a 450...while underway...one can get enough of the feel of the water abaft of the helm.

 

Perspective is everything...does anyone say that besides me?

Whatever, it occurred to me... someone said they live in Seattle where "it gets quite hot in the summer." Yeah, okay. I don't think so, relative to Florida, so I checked. That this person boated without a bimini on the Chaparral was odd to me. It's not odd when you live and boat in Seattle, But, it's Seattle, the PNW. I checked the average temp for Seattle...annually... 52 degrees! Average annual high 58!!! Average high temp in July and August... 72.5. It rains nearly 50% of the time. If I want to boat a lot, and my average annual temp is cold, and my summer avg high temp is cool and the low borders on cold.... you're damn straight I'd want a fully enclosed helm. Heck I might have to get a pilothouse-style....brrrrr!

Edit: My apologies to those who saw this post earlier. I'm taking allergy med and fell asleep at the keyboard, hence the crazy repeated letters and numbers. :smt101

 

Perspective is everything...does anyone say that besides me?

Whatever, it occurred to me... someone said they live in Seattle where "it gets quite hot in the summer." Yeah, okay. I don't think so, relative to Florida, so I checked. That this person boated without a bimini on the Chaparral was odd to me. It's not odd when you live and boat in Seattle, But, it's Seattle, the PNW. I checked the average temp for Seattle...annually... 52 degrees! Average annual high 58!!! Average high temp in July and August... 72.5. It rains nearly 50% of the time. If I want to boat a lot, and my average annual temp is cold, and my summer avg high temp is cool and the low borders on cold.... you're damn straight w

That someone was me. I travel frequently and I know that we don't get "Florida" hot but we do have days where we're in the high 80's and with the highs in the 90's (see weather history for last summer here...) https://www.wunderground.com/histor...ory.html?req_city=&req_state=&req_statename=&reqdb.zip=&reqdb.magic=&reqdb.wmo=

I will be the first to admit that my body does not and has never tolerated prolonged heat very well. When we first got our Chaparral we traveled without the bimini top regularly until the summer I got heatstroke (I don't recommend it for anyone) after which we decided that traveling without the bimini simply wasn't worth the risk to my health. In the Pacific Northwest we boat year-round so our boats need to be able to handle the temperatures and weather conditions when it's hot and when it's cold and drizzly. All I can say is that we're immensely more comfortable in our Sea Ray than we ever were in the Chaparral. The Chaparral had no AC and a sad cabin heater that pretty much only took the edge off on very cold days.

The beauty of our Sea Ray configuration on the 450 is that you can take off the aft canvas and still run the AC for the captain and those who want the fresh air and sun can also have that in the aft seating. Regardless of whether you consider our weather worthy enough to be considered "hot", the 450 keeps you comfortable in several different configurations and in all types of weather.

Sandy

 

We've actually had several days of 85 degree weather in Seattle in April and May already this year. Averages aside, we usually have very clear weather from early July through September, with many days in the 80's. That's when we take the vinyl windshield windows out since it gets so hot at the helm. It may be that more Sundancers in the Pac NW don't have A/C which sounds like a must in the southern states.

 

I admire the look of enclosed hard tops and enclosed fly bridge boats but wouldn't want one. Sorry guys, but I'm another who boats in all kinds of temps and who likes the feel of the wind and the sound of the water.

We live on the east side of WA in a desert. We boat all year so it's not uncommon for us to be out in below freezing temps and we're often out when it's 105* to 110*. When it's cold we have all the eisenglass installed. When it's hot they're all removed and we enjoy the feeling of the wind.

One thing I don't like about having all the windows installed is that I can't feel the force and direction of the wind when I'm docking. I don't think I could ever go to a completely enclosed fly bridge. It would feel too much like being in a car with the windows rolled up.

 

I admire the look of enclosed hard tops and enclosed fly bridge boats but wouldn't want one. Sorry guys, but I'm another who boats in all kinds of temps and who likes the feel of the wind and the sound of the water....

My sentiments exactly, especially the sound of the water. GFC it's nice to know you can still hear the water from your height.

...One thing I don't like about having all the windows installed is that I can't feel the force and direction of the wind when I'm docking. I don't think I could ever go to a completely enclosed fly bridge. It would feel too much like being in a car with the windows rolled up.

Had not thought of that but I do the same thing. Maybe the fully enclosed helms all have joystick docking. Great call GFC...another box to check.