I want to own a condo along the water with 3 floors - all with balconies - with my boat directly out front. That's what I call a dockiminium. That's my future.

 

I want to own a condo along the water with 3 floors - all with balconies - with my boat directly out front. That's what I call a dockiminium. That's my future.

With you on that one...:thumbsup: actually my goal is no condo, house or land based residence but the admiral isn't there yet.

While I agree with Hampton, a move to the water is a few years down the road for us.

We're actually leasing a "dockominium" slip to try it out before deciding to buy. The only thoughts I have so far is that it does seem to make sound financial sense. However, the associations I have looked at can be just as annoying as the regular condo and community associations. The big difference between the association and the standard marina type approach is that the law almost always seems to fall on the side of the association.

If you manage to elect a board that goes crazy and creates meaningless rules or by-laws, there is really nothing you can do about it. Where we are now, if you want to sell your boat, you can't have a for sale sign on it in the marina because of an agreement with an onsite broker. I have actually watched these people board boats and take signs down. I told the representative that they never have permission to board my boat except in an emergency and they pointed out the by-laws that allow them to board any vessel within the community for just about any purpose they deem necessary.

Apparently they have because I have found filthy footprints all over my boat on more than one occassion- Although I really find the concept appealing, this one may not be the place for us long term.

Ouch that is tough. I'm dealing with that same BS with my FL homeower's association. Being a New Englander this stuff is just outrageous to me. After spending last 4th at your facility Skeetobite, and meeting you, we were impressed with it and plan to return. But this stuff ensures we'll only be a transient there.

Thanks,

 

I think it's a good idea. I bought a 50' stretch of bulkhead along a canal this past year. I have about 20' between the curb line and the water. Plenty of room to store my boat, and keep a shed for storage.
I was getting ready to go for a dockominium if I hadn't come across this deal on a piece of private property.
It's a good idea financially because you will make money on it in the long run, probably at least as much as you'd make parking the money in a secure long term CD, and it will lower your annual costs for dockage.
Knowing that you will have a place to go each year is nice too.

 

While I agree with Hampton, a move to the water is a few years down the road for us.

We're actually leasing a "dockominium" slip to try it out before deciding to buy. The only thoughts I have so far is that it does seem to make sound financial sense. However, the associations I have looked at can be just as annoying as the regular condo and community associations. The big difference between the association and the standard marina type approach is that the law almost always seems to fall on the side of the association.

If you manage to elect a board that goes crazy and creates meaningless rules or by-laws, there is really nothing you can do about it. Where we are now, if you want to sell your boat, you can't have a for sale sign on it in the marina because of an agreement with an onsite broker. I have actually watched these people board boats and take signs down. I told the representative that they never have permission to board my boat except in an emergency and they pointed out the by-laws that allow them to board any vessel within the community for just about any purpose they deem necessary.

Apparently they have because I have found filthy footprints all over my boat on more than one occassion- Although I really find the concept appealing, this one may not be the place for us long term.

 

Mine is a private "yacht club",there are advantages such as 200-600 a year for taxes and association fees ,the higher price is if a fair amount of dredgeing will be needed in the spring'the low if none at all.we dont have a service or sales dept.or gas dock.We do have portable pumpouts ,nice clean showers a tent a party room, picknic tables ,gazebo overlooking the marina and saginaw bay,mast stepper,laundry room electric gated entrances,grills that are always full of propane,adjustable docks made of plastic thatr are two years old,lawn and pesticide services,and a great family atmosphere.We are also the first entrance off the saginaw bay in the saginaw river,so its a quick in and out on the weekends.

 

In my mind. . it depends on the financials and the location.

If the only access to a certain location is to buy in. . .that's what you do.

As for the financial. . .depends on the costs relative to slipping. The association fees and the ability to resell would be key factors. My dockuminium has a three bedroom house on it.

I have looked at the long term cost aspects. Considering taxes and the occassional roof. . . . .its not a slam dunk. As an investment. . it's quite a pill. Sometimes, it is the smartest investment on the planet. Other times. . .my 0.2% money market account beats the pants off of it. Of course. . I have occassionally thought the same of my mutual fund investments.

 

Pros:
investment
knowing that you have a slip each year
rental income if your plans change
savings - $x,xxx X 10 years = more than I paid for my slip

Cons:
assessments

 

Hmmm, very insightful. Thank you all for your input some very good points. My initial thought was that it is a slam dunk. However I could not help but think if it sounds to good to be true.....

Skeetobite brought up a very good point about the association, very important. Leasing, try before you buy, is a great way to approach it. That of course is if you can make an agreement that works for both parties. I assume that the slip owner wanted to sell but will rent until sold. If thats the case, how did you work that?

 

Russ, we rent our slip in a condo.theres no buildings just slips w/ pool, tennis,playground. they are advertising sales/rentals more and more are coming available i guess due to the economy, however the going rate there is around $50,000 to buy i was told, or rent for $100 PER FOOT for the season , if you do the math it would take me many years to break even. If i want to leave i just dont rent again ive had the same slip for 3 yrs and the owner says he has no plans of selling the two slips he has are an investment. I dont see buying doesnt make sense:smt009

 

I know a few people that own their slip, they love it but... They want to move up in size but they can't because it won't fit in the slip they own. They tried putting it up for sale for what they paid for it, but no takers.

 

That's just a matter of moving up in a down market. It makes sense if you can get the bigger item (boat, house, condo, slip...) at a simiar discount (by percentage).

 

How about being "stuck" in one place......I love the freedom of being to able to keep my boat anywhere - last year I was actually at 4 different marinas during the season - I've even considered shipping the boat Fla, rack storing it and flying down regularly to explore the keys/bahamas - I probably wouldn't consider/do these things if I had layed out cash and/or had a mortgage on a slip along with assesments/taxes/fees - you can say rent it out but easier said then done in this economy - It's not for me but as they say whatever floats your boat!

 

At my marina people paid 55,000.00 in 1988. In 2000-2006 they resold for 22,000.00 to 27,000.00. Now when one comes up for sale they are 30-35 ish. One guy wants 55k and is holding out for it...for years. It was/is a "good investment for the guys who bought in 2002, not so much for the ones who did in 1988.

 

Ours have appreciated 20-25% since I bought mine....of course that was prior to the shed collapse.:smt089

 

It all depends on supply and demand. Everything else is moot.

 

Slips in west michigan are not good investments. They do not go up in value and can be hard to sell. What with taxes and repairs they are a net loss. Buying a nice piece of lake front property with a good deep water dock is the way to go here. Great investment.

 

We are in the Newport, RI area. Up here slips are expensive and the yearly fees are high. It doesn't seem to make sense except for the piece of mind of having a slip every year The math doesn't seem to work.

We bought a dock in Hilton Head. The fees are reasonable. The idea was to bring the boat south and use it as a place in the winter. We did that the first year. Subsequently, we sold the boat and were out of boating for a few years. It has been rented most of that time. The ROI has been very good (much better than the market). I keep my rates below the marina rates. There is a website that works fine for renting it.

We are back into boating with our Sea Ray and may winter down there next year.

 

We are in the Newport, RI area. Up here slips are expensive and the yearly fees are high. It doesn't seem to make sense except for the piece of mind of having a slip every year The math doesn't seem to work.

We bought a dock in Hilton Head. The fees are reasonable. The idea was to bring the boat south and use it as a place in the winter. We did that the first year. Subsequently, we sold the boat and were out of boating for a few years. It has been rented most of that time. The ROI has been very good (much better than the market). I keep my rates below the marina rates. There is a website that works fine for renting it.

We are back into boating with our Sea Ray and may winter down there next year.[/quote]

 

I am not sure I undertand why the financial aspect would not make sense. Let me give you all my scenerio.

Right now I pay a total of about $12k a year for dock, winter storage, shrink wrap and winterization. I could knock down a couple thousand dollars by going to a cheaper place but for the most part prices are pretty close in my area and the price will reflect location and/or ammenities. If I do not do the work on the boat myself I have to pay the yard - no other choice.
The dockaminium I am looking at has an asking price of $25k and its $800 a year for winter storage. I am at liberty to contract any outside labor for any work. I know there is a small assesment on the horizon for an environmental catch basin. I am still waiting to see what other fees are involved.
Now, location is good for both. The docks are fixed at the dockominium and I rent and prefer a floater. The grounds and faicilities are nicer at the dockominium. However the dockaminium is exposed to daily passanger ferry wakes that are disruptive at best and certainly a concern. Not a deal breaker unless there is not a financial benefit.

Even taking a conservative number, say $8k a year for rental.
Say $2400 for winterization and storage plus a fee or dues and $25k financed over 5 years for purchase.

5 years - $40k rental
5 years - $40k (includes interest) plus fee or dues? to own
So break even in 6 or 7 years? How could you not break even at some point?? Eventually the purchase cost drops out of the equation and ownership becomes an asset. Your dues or fees plus contracting labor outside and discounted storage will always be cheaper than renting and paying a marina. What am i missing?

 

Lessee...

$12,000 per year for dockage and storage....holy cow...

I pay $18,000/year for my waterfront home (2800 sf) incl. property taxes, 55' of deep water Gulf access waterfront, and have the convenience of having my boat floating in my backyard. And, of course, it's all tax deductible...

I cannot in any way- see the sense of someone that boats close to where they reside to do anything other than purchasing a waterfront home. It just doesn't make financial sense.

Of course, if you need to live an hour from the water for work, school, etc. it's a different story. But for the guys that live fifteen minutes from their marina... WHY??

 

If you buy the slip, can you later lease it if you get out of boating?

 

Yes

 

It sounds like you worked the numbers and it worked out for you. I'd say it makes sense.
I was paying $2150 for a summer slip in a working boatyard with no amenities. It was a realtive bargain. Winter storage which had to include everything involved in winterization, covering, bottom painting, haul, and re-launch was about another $3900.
The owner of the boatyard was pretty good about letting me do other maintenance or small repairs, which is unusual for around here, but anything else had to go through him. Anything that required an outside contractor had to be one of the people he uses. They were all good people, but charged extra becuase they had to kick back to the boatyard for coming in there.
I bought a piece of property last year for $60,000. The taxes are $700. The water and electric bills will be about $300 for the year. It cost me $270 for shrinkwrap, $270 for a crane to pick the boat up and block it up on the property, and another $270 to put it back in the water.
I figure the cost of all the supplies for winterization, bottom painting, and zincs to be about $400. I do the labor, which I wasn't allowed to do in the boatyard.
Figure in other incidentals and I'm looking at about $2500 a year to dock, winter store, and maintain the boat. That's a savings of about $3500 a year.
Not a bad rate of return on a pretty secure investment. Much better than I could get anyplace else.
If the property increases in value during the time that I own it, the return increases. Chances are good that it will increase because they aren't making any more waterfront property around here, and many marinas/boatyards have already sold off to residential developers over the years, with more likely to do so in the coming years.
If the boat needs any repairs that I can't handle, I can use anyone I want to do them. That increases the savings.
I had been looking for a piece of property on this particular canal for a few years and jumped on this one as soon as I got word of it. In all likelyhood, if I wanted to sell, someone would jump on it just like I did.
Had I not come across it, I was ready to by a dockominium in a local place.
The initial purchase price was lower for the dockominium, but the annual expenses were just slightly higher. They also let you bring in people from the outside for repairs or maintenance, but they have to be approved. Not a big deal, and probably a good thing so you make sure that competent insured trustworthy people are walking around in the marina. Overall, the numbers still worked out to be much better in there as an owner than anyplace else around here as a tenant.
It probaly varies from one region to the next, it sounds like price and availability of dock space and storage is very different in different areas of the country, but if you sharpened your pencil and the numbers worked out, then go for it.

 

JVM225 - thanks for your insight. Sounds like you got a great deal, you would never find any waterfront property like that here and certainly not for that price.

I think I just need to confirm the numbers and I liked an earlier idea about leasing for a year first if possible.

 

It's a very unique situation for here too. Thats why they go fast when they come up.
Generally the canals are located behind the houses in residential areas. This is one of just a couple of spots in the area where the canal is across the street from the house. Over the years, some of the houses sold off the piece across the street for one reason or another. They aren't buildable lots, thats why they don't command a crazy price, but they're great for docking a boat.
Mine is 50' long by 20' wide. The 50' is along the canal. The canal is not wide enough to allow backing in against the bulkhead, but perfect for tieing up along side. You can even tie up a smaller boat alongside yours if you really want.
Plenty of room on the property for a shed to store stuff in, and a nice picnic table to hang out at.

 

One issue that has come up in discussions with friends is the concept of "marina comraderie" that doesn't exist in the waterfront home. I'd be interested to hear what you guys think about that.

Most marinas have a rule that you cannot post a FOR SALE sign on your boat, even if they don't house a brokerage (check the fine print of your contract). OR, they let you post a sign but you have to fork over 10% if you make a sale. At first glance, it seems sort of MAFIA but it's their property and you have to play by their rules.

Personally, I'd much prefer to have my boat docked neatly behind my house. Unless your situation specifically calls for it, renting makes little sense but we all do it. As long as I've owned a boat, I've been paying rent. 12 years and tens of thousands of dollars later, I have nothing to show for it but fond memories!

 

Thats a great point!! The friendships we have made and kept would have never happened. That was worth every penny. Thanks.

 

We spend a few nights a year in neighboring marinas just so we don't have to go home late at night following a dinner party. Usually there is some local gossip which reminds us why the piece and quiet of a private slip is better than having a disagreeable neighbor 5' away from you who enjoys listening to music that is not your style. We get all the fellowship we want in a month of cruising on Lake Michigan and enjoy the solitude when we are home. Property taxes are limited in Michigan so our taxes are less than slip fees. The guy who buys our house next will get rebased for taxes and it won't be pretty.

 

Thats also a good point, there are folks that we didnt get along with also. Our solitude is usually when we leave the dock and drop a hook somewhere. But a lot of those friends were not made at one marina and we re-visit during rafting functions or meets at transient marinas and the occasional winter function (boat shows). Still a good point.
Taxes got us too when we bought our house 7 years ago and I cant even get a large boat in here but I do love the water. We have actually taken the CC to the marina as transport or launch - just like the rich folk :lol:

 

Back to ownership of a house/condo on water. I have a house on Mobile Bay about 3 miles from Ft Morgan and the pass into the Gulf. I live 4 hours away and don't mind that time frame for having my boats on lifts. The southern weather means winterization is usually not an issue. And owning the property means that eventually it will be paid for and or can be sold for at least break even or hopefully make money. Due to the current economy, there are several nice 2 BR condos in a complex next door that come with a boat slip for $210K to $280. That means that these could be bought for about $2000 a month including taxes and maybe even the property fees. This is not far off from some of you are paying for a slip alone and with this money, you get a condo too!

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