This is very situational... if you're tying up to a fuel dock or launch ramp (i.e. temporary) then I would agree to put the looped end on the boat and the bitter end on the dock. In my permanent slip, I do it the other way around so I can make any needed adjustments from the boat. The lines are taped to mark their ideal starting position.

As far as running the line through the hole in the cleat... I see no need for that and don't do that in practice. Instead, I put a wrap around the cleat before beginning the alternating wraps around the horns. Also, I don't wrap the entire length of the line around the cleat, just enough to secure the boat and then I coil the remainder. This habit is probably a hold-over from my sailing days where constant adjustment is needed to lines, so the ease of adjustment (while insuring the line is secure) is paramount.

Lastly, the one thing that cheeses me off is when people do not secure the last wrap properly so it makes a true figure 8, like this:

All of this, of course, is just opinion. The bottom line is if the boat doesn't float away, and you can undo or adjust what you did quickly and easily, then pick a method that works for you and be able to do it without thinking.

 

.....................
Lastly, the one thing that cheeses me off is when people do not secure the last wrap properly so it makes a true figure 8, like this:

.......

Tim:

I agree with the way you illustrated and I do the same. However, in the link by B-fitting, it says that the 'ragboaters' and 'professionals' condemm the use of the locking hitch on a last turn....


No Locking Hitch: Several Skippers have written to say that when towing, and on professionally crewed sailing vessels, a final locking hitch is never used. Omitting this locking hitch: 1) reduces the chance of a jam; 2) facilitates undoing a line in a hurry; and 3) enhances uniformity of practice. However, on small yachts loads are smaller, jams are rare, and the locking turn is in widespread use. Nevertheless, if professional experience condemns the use of a locking turn, it suggests that the rest of us would be wise to learn to cleat a rope without it too!

 

I got this on line, I didn't know how to put it in my own words.
Illustration www.animatedknots.com/cleat/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Step1

Loop a line strong enough to hold your boat around the base of the boat cleat. If the line is not strong enough, you may return to the dock to find a stretch of water where your boat used to float.
Step2
Bring the line up around one end, or horn, of the cleat. Pass it across the top of the cleat and back toward the other horn.
Step3
Pass the line under the second horn. Bring it back across the cleat in the opposite direction from the last cross you made. You should now have a figure eight on top of the cleat.
Step4
Carry the line around the first horn a second time, and then back toward the second horn, crossing the cleat again.
Step5
Make a loop with the end of the line. Roll the end of the line under and loop it over the second horn, pulling the end of the line parallel with the figure eight.
Step6
Pull the line taught.

 

I can see that when towing that line is going to be really tight. But tying up to a dock is far from towing a 20,000 pound 40' cruiser.

Best regards,
Frank

 

The only time I run the line through the eye of the cleat is when we are closing the boat up for the weekend and it will be staying on the mooring unattended. The rest of the time I'm with Scott, the line should be set on the cleat whether dock, or boat so that it can be removed as quickly and cleanly as possible.

Henry

 

The illustrated line to cleat diagram as posted by Festivius is THE only manner acceptable. Some additional requiremnets should also be noted.

1. The standing end of the line should be run "fair" from the dock or piling to the cleat. This will typically mean the line will wrap around the base of the cleat from the back of the cleat ... from the outside of the boat. This allows the line to experience the least amount of chafe from the gunnel.

2. The finish on the line, once cleated, is best accompished by wrapping the bitter end around the base of the cleat to shorten the bitter end so as to allow the drape of the last 18-24 inchs over the gunnel and allowed it to hang free below the deck level. Looks a little less tidy, yes, but for one really great reason is worth the affront. The line will allow any water from boat washing and rain that gets in to the line to drip overboard by means of capillary action (siphon). Water and the dirt in it run down the line and into the water. The effect of this is to keep the decks clean. Thats right, leave the lines so tied and when you remove them a week or a month later, the deck is perfectly clean under the line. Yes it will be clean, no black ring of industrial waste left under the cleated line. Shazaam. Try it you'll thank me!

Do this and the Old Salts will give you a quiet nob for being in the know.

 

Do this and the Old Salts will give you a quiet nob for being in the know.

Chad, I think I would rather have a quite NOD from an Old Salt........."not that there's anything wrong with that"

 

Good thread on a simple thing. I agree with the Festivus illustration. It makes me nuts when due to wind, waves or just being shorthanded you want to get away from a dock quick and you find the last line was cleated with 3 locking hitches.

 

I am with Festivus on the hitch. NO need for any more at least as far as I am concerned.... Also HATE if its not like that, have the crew trained to the correct method of a hitch... Must stem from my sailing period that I am currently seeking help with.... I am guessing that Festivus also coils the rope and hangs the coil over the bow rail... Another sailing thing that I found myself doing yesterday also....

As for permanent dock lines I was on the fence. As we just spent the day yesterday reversing our lines from having the bitter end on the boat cleat to having the eye on the cleat and the bitter end on the piling. Since its our home dock lines that don't come off until the end of the season I wanted a no questions asked on where to start the wrap on the bow... I though of going the tape route as a guide... But with the tides only being a bit over a ft. on the sissy part of the Bay I reversed the line...

I might change it back once the crew get comfortable with it... I do like the freedom of ease of adjustment directly...

 

My permanent dock lines have the bitter end on the dock cleat. It makes launching and docking far easier.

 

I have heard that one should never cast the loop end to someone on a dock when face docking, always give them the bitter end. The reason I was told was they might hook the loop on the cleat, and ... I did not get the rest of the logic behind this...any comments about this logic?

 

Pseudomind...I thought it was never cast an unsecured line to the dock. Use the loop end on the boat first, then throw the bitter end which should be easier to cleat on the dock anyway.

 

Both ways make sense, so I guess one needs to look at the current situation.

The way that I have always practiced was to give the person on shore the loop, that way should things get out of hand (current sends you screaming in a direction you did not wish to go, etc) you can cut loose easier than trying to convey to the shore handler to let you go. The added benefit is that your deckhand, or you have the bitter end looped around the cleat and can control how much line you take in and how fast.

The absolute worst thing that can occur is that either your deckhand or the person on shore does not secure the line in some fashion and tries to hold the line with his/her arms and body weight. Someone will go swimming if things go south, and with spinning props.....you get the picture.

I remember guidance on this at one time, but like my high school German, that waved bye bye to me long ago....

 

For my home dock (boathouse) I attach the loop end to boat's cleats. Leaving other attached all the time.... Easy off and when returning... quick and easy on. :thumbsup:

 

The diagram from Festivus is absolutely the only way!

 

Here's a question: the majority of our local lakes have done away with cleats entirely. Most of the docks here have a rail an inch or two off the dock, supported by blocks every 8' or so.

The bow line my dealer supplied with the boat is looped at both ends for attachment (or so he showed us) to the bow & stern cleats on the boat, creating a big loop. Now, securing that "loop" to a cleat is no problem, but how would you all suggest attaching to a smooth rail with no ends to wrap around?

We only tie up after unloading at the ramp while we warm the engine up and upon returning while I run off to get the truck, so it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I must admit to being stumped. So far, we haven't tied up at all, just run the line under the rail for leverage and then had someone hold the rope to keep the boat against the dock. It's a pain. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

Here's a question: the majority of our local lakes have done away with cleats entirely. Most of the docks here have a rail an inch or two off the dock, supported by blocks every 8' or so.

View attachment 5337

The bow line my dealer supplied with the boat is looped at both ends for attachment (or so he showed us) to the bow & stern cleats on the boat, creating a big loop. Now, securing that "loop" to a cleat is no problem, but how would you all suggest attaching to a smooth rail with no ends to wrap around?

We only tie up after unloading at the ramp while we warm the engine up and upon returning while I run off to get the truck, so it's not the biggest deal in the world, but I must admit to being stumped. So far, we haven't tied up at all, just run the line under the rail for leverage and then had someone hold the rope to keep the boat against the dock. It's a pain. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

I'm not sure what the dock masters are thinking here. I'd avoid the "Big Loop" tie up in favor of a clove hitch set tight when the strain is 90 degrees from the hitch. To protect the hitch from being kicked free, be sure to finish the clove hitch with the bitter end turned in to a half hitch. In the case where you have a angle from the hitch of less than 70 degrees, use a Rolling Hitch set hand tight.

 

Frome;

Umm, yeah, what the dealer suggested can work, but can be unwieldy. Using a standard mooring line with a loop on one end and a no loop on the other (the "bitter end") is much more flexible.

Check out this site for some basic knots: http://www.animatedknots.com/indexboating.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

When

 

I do the Festivus routine with a "cool mod". I use several wraps of the bitter end around the dock cleat to build up about one inch of elevation. I know---looks like hell. However, we live on a lake and are not protected by no wake zones. It's not unusual to see our boat go up and down by two feet. The extra space under the figure eight prevents the lines from chaffing on the dock. Our lines look good after six months of goof balls going by our dock at law breaking speeds. The sherrif is one of the big offenders.

 

.......... The sherrif is one of the big offenders.

Here's a pic of one of the NJ State Police patrol boats leaving their base just accross (actually inside) Farleys state marina....'Through Farley's State Marina'...right past the H DOCK!!!!

Bounced the crap out of every boat in the marina.

What was the emergency you ask? they were balls to the wall to chase a jetskier for going through the basin making a wake....:smt021.....I'm not making this up!!!!!

Uh...wait a minute....they might be reading this....I know....that pic was taken' by some of the bigger fuddy duddy's on the F Dock and I just borrowed the pic...yeah that's it....:grin:

 

3 pages on how to secure to a cleat?

My favorite was a volunteer at a boat show booth teaching my daughter the proper way. This lady in uniform had her putting her fingers in between the loops to hold them while she finished the knots. I said, "don't put your fingers there unless you want to have them pinched off when 20,000 pounds of boat starts pulling away in the wind." Amazing.

 

Yup - and that's why it takes three pages! I have been cinching my cleats with at least three times, but I think I will start with only one, like you guys mentioned, it is easier to take off, and it's not going anywhere either way.

 

I do mine as Tim outlined but I do add an extra hitch..

 

I have always tied my lines up in the manner the Festivus44 describes. The loop end is on the stern boat cleats and the bitter end on the dock. The bow has the loop on the piling slider and the bitter end tied to the boat cleat. The boat sits all winter like that and I have not had a problem with lines. Going into a transient marina stern lines are tied as festivus44 describes bow lines and spring lines vary depending on what we are tieing up to. If we are tieing to a piling, the line is past through the loop and placed over the pilining with the bitter end tied to the boat cleat (makes for easy get away); if we are on a T-Head loop on boat cleat and then bitter end tied to dock cleat.

Putting the bitter end through the hole in the dock cleat seems to make it difficult to pull it back on to the boat if you are leaving without on dock assistance.

 

Mr. Salt - what you mention makes sense to me. I always keep the bitter end on a cleat and the loop cinched on a pole - in the rare transient for my size boat that has poles off the bow. Also, if there are two cleats, I keep the bitter end on the side that's easier to access - that being the dock side for my stern lines.

I also started not running the line through the middle of the cleat first last night and again today when I was out, and it's much easier to take off. Thanks for the advice / discussion everyone. Such a simple issue, but I see it done wrong a lot.

 

Pppfttt...why remember all of these useless knots when you only need to learn one phrase:

"If you cant tie a knot, tie a lot."

Works infallibly.:thumbsup:

 

You can see in this picture, from this last weekend, many docks have the rail setup.

I'll loop the bitter end through the loop and to the aft cleat, then spring it forward keeping the ass end in tight to the dock. On the bitter end attaching to the forward end of that to the dock I'll create a 4' loop that gets clove hitched around the rail.

 

As for the first question.... when tying up to a cleat, I use the method as described in the 2nd or third post (whichever it was).

The one thing that some may do incorrectly is when initially tying the line to the cleat, make sure the load side of the line passes in front of the entire cleat first before wrapping around the cleat for the first turn. Some may take the load side of the line and wrap it behind the cleat first instead of passing the line in front of the cleat.

See here - http://www.animatedknots.com/cleat/index.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com

Doug