Ya know these fired cops are getting their jobs back....

[Gofirstclass]

Yesterday while in the car I was listening to our local talk radio show. They were talking about a cop who got fired about 2 years ago for hiding during the active shooter call at Marjorie Douglas Stoneman High School in Parkland. FL. Video showed the cop hiding behind his patrol car instead of entering the building to look for the shooter.

He was essentially fired for derelection of duty--being a chicken sh!t. Was the firing justified? Absolutely. But now the courts have ruled the department needs to rehire the cop, give him full back pay and full seniority.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...failed-act-shooting-gets-job-back/5194831002/

Why? The department failed to follow their own rules when they fired him. They didn't follow their own due process requirements. When it went to court, the court ruled on that issue so the cop's attorney never even had to present his case over whether or not the firing was justified.

So skip forward two years to what's going on around the country today. Departments are firing cops left and right. Are they following their own due process rules? Not likely when they fire the cops the same day their "illegal actions" came to light.

So, I'm betting that since the precedent has been set in the Parkland, FL case, that there will be a flood of these cases headed to courts and a lot of back pay will be paid out.

Is it fair? I think yes and no. The reasons for the firings are likely justified but the firings are being done in the heat of passion. The departments are caving in to the demands of the BLM protestors and others that the cops be fired.

At the same time, departments MUST follow their own guidelines about the procedures that MUST happen before an employee can be fired.

Time will tell who is right in this. What say you?

 

[Golfman25]

I say they have to placate the mob. In two years when the case gets to court most of the politicians will be gone. The cops get reimbursed without a lot of fanfare.

 

[boatman37]

Agreed. The protestors don't understand the importance of following procedure. They want immediate action and get upset when they don't get it. That case my step-son is working on is a good example. They wanted the kid arrested that night but there was no P.C. for the arrest. My wife just told me today that they have issues a warrant for the kid and his father now. Had they caved and made an arrest that night the charges may not have stuck and the kid might never serve time for it.

 

[JimT]

Different rules in different states, counties, cities. Unions will influences the outcome. The LEO who got fired in Atlanta yesterday will be exonerated. He is spent 30 minutes patiently working with the criminal. When the BAC came back over the limit he finally went to cuff him. Two cops on the ground fighting for their lives. The criminal grabs a taser. It could have been a firearm. The criminal runs then turns around to fire at the officer. Officer returns fire. Dead criminal.

I feel terrible for the officer. That he was fired is BS. He will not get rehired but the city will eventually pay him a settlement for back pay plus future earnings.

 

[boatman37]

The problem is if the bad guy hits the officer with the taser then takes his firearm and finishes him off. Pretty simple defense there.

 

[Creekwood]

Different rules in different states, counties, cities. Unions will influences the outcome. The LEO who got fired in Atlanta yesterday will be exonerated. He is spent 30 minutes patiently working with the criminal. When the BAC came back over the limit he finally went to cuff him. Two cops on the ground fighting for their lives. The criminal grabs a taser. It could have been a firearm. The criminal runs then turns around to fire at the officer. Officer returns fire. Dead criminal.

I feel terrible for the officer. That he was fired is BS. He will not get rehired but the city will eventually pay him a settlement for back pay plus future earnings.

He did not deserve to be shot twice and killed for trying to run away while drunk. He was not trying to kill the cop, he was stupidly (he was drunk) trying to get away. They had his car. They could have just followed him for a while till he fell. There was ZERO need to pull a firearm and shoot dead a drunk running away. Many of you are ex LEO's. Do you all agree that that officer used justified force to kill that man? If you do, then there truly is a major problem with policing in the US.

 

[El Capitan]

I’ve got an idea!

How ‘bout if you’re a black man getting arrested you don’t grab the officers gun/taser and resist arrest then start running.

Maybe, just maybe you won’t get shot.

 

[Golfman25]

He did not deserve to be shot twice and killed for trying to run away while drunk. He was not trying to kill the cop, he was stupidly (he was drunk) trying to get away. They had his car. They could have just followed him for a while till he fell. There was ZERO need to pull a firearm and shoot dead a drunk running away. Many of you are ex LEO's. Do you all agree that that officer used justified force to kill that man? If you do, then there truly is a major problem with policing in the US.

Nor did the officer deserve to be accosted. It's not an easy case and given the environment I am on the record saying let the aholes go and pick them up later. But what is an officer supposed to do when confronted with someone pointing and firing a weapon at them? They are trained to react.

 

[Golfman25]

Here is an eye opening video

If you don't want to watch the whole thing, fast forward to the 3:30 mark for the admission.

 

[Creekwood]

Nor did the officer deserve to be accosted. It's not an easy case and given the environment I am on the record saying let the aholes go and pick them up later. But what is an officer supposed to do when confronted with someone pointing and firing a weapon at them? They are trained to react.

They should react as they are trained. I would hope they are not trained to fire a lethal weapon if their life or the life of others is in immediate danger.

 

[Creekwood]

I’ve got an idea!

How ‘bout if you’re a black man getting arrested you don’t grab the officers gun/taser and resist arrest then start running.

Maybe, just maybe you won’t get shot.

And maybe don't get drunk and fall asleep in a Wendy's drive thru. LOTS of reasons why people end up involved with police. Usually it is not because they did nothing. That is the whole point of police. They are dealing with crime and criminals or suspected criminals.

But there are laws that are supposed to protect citizens from unlawful police activity. That is why I was asking if ex LEO's think that was a justified use of lethal force/

I don't care what you say, he did not deserve to die for trying to run away.

I can tell you that if I was drunk and the police for some reason fired a taser at me, in my drunken stupor, I might try to run away and defend myself from them. That LEO knew he was drunk and still made a trained decision to draw his firearm and use lethal force on a suspect that was running away.

If that cop gets away with that murder, god help you all. Talk about sheep.

 

[firecadet613]

And maybe don't get drunk and fall asleep in a Wendy's drive thru. LOTS of reasons why people end up involved with police. Usually it is not because they did nothing. That is the whole point of police. They are dealing with crime and criminals or suspected criminals.

But there are laws that are supposed to protect citizens from unlawful police activity. That is why I was asking if ex LEO's think that was a justified use of lethal force/

I don't care what you say, he did not deserve to die for trying to run away.

I can tell you that if I was drunk and the police for some reason fired a taser at me, in my drunken stupor, I might try to run away and defend myself from them. That LEO knew he was drunk and still made a trained decision to draw his firearm and use lethal force on a suspect that was running away.

If that cop gets away with that murder, god help you all. Talk about sheep.

He was drunk and resisting arrest. He punched the cop. If you were the cop, what would you do? Let him get away? Let's say he fired the taser and it hit the cop. Once the cop is incapacitated on the ground - the officers firearm is easy pickings....

 

[Creekwood]

He was drunk and resisting arrest. He punched the cop. If you were the cop, what would you do? Let him get away? Let's say he fired the taser and it hit the cop. Once the cop is incapacitated on the ground - the officers firearm is easy pickings....

So you can be shot and killed for resisting arrest by trying to get away? What if that was your teenage son that decided he was really going to be in trouble and didn't want to get caught? Same situation. Drunk and doing something stupid. Play that exact scenario out and tell me if that cop was justified shooting and killing.

 

[firecadet613]

So you can be shot and killed for resisting arrest by trying to get away? What if that was your teenage son that decided he was really going to be in trouble and didn't want to get caught? Same situation. Drunk and doing something stupid. Play that exact scenario out and tell me if that cop was justified shooting and killing.

You left out the part where he had stolen the taser and was pointing it at them, while running away. In all of these cases - had they decided to NOT resist arrest - none of this would have happened. I've taught all my children, yes sir, no sir, etc. Showing respect to many officers will get you far!

These officers spent over 30 minutes speaking with him. There was no reason for it to escalate the way it did and I fear there will be many more just like this over the coming weeks as more and more people feel they do not need to listen to authority figures.

 

[Carpediem44DB]

He was drunk and resisting arrest. He punched the cop. If you were the cop, what would you do? Let him get away? Let's say he fired the taser and it hit the cop. Once the cop is incapacitated on the ground - the officers firearm is easy pickings....

Did I read or hear correctly that Brooks died from two gun shot wounds in the back? I'm pretty sure standard operating procedures do not in include shooting fleeing suspects in the back. We can all argue until the cows come home what should or should not have happened in the Brooks case. Bottom line though is times they are a changing and police work needs to evolve to meet the new realities. Back in the day it a posse was formed to go find a perp, he was tracked down and summarily hung from a sturdy branch, easy peasy. Things have changed and continue to change with technology out pacing the ability of policing to keep up. Funny how the technological advances designed to make our lives better, in actuality are responsible for destroying our beloved way of life. Buying a big boat with no TV or internet and plying the coastal waters is looking more and more justifiable every news cycle.
Carpe Diem

 

[Gofirstclass]

They should react as they are trained. I would hope they are not trained to fire a lethal weapon if their life or the life of others is in immediate danger.

Creekwood, therein lies the conumdrum in this case. They are definitely not trained to fire if their life or the life of another is not in immediate danger.

But defending yourself from the use of a taser? That could be articulated that he felt his life was in danger. With his partner still on the ground and if he was disabled by the taser and the bad guy grabbed his gun, who's to say he felt his life was in danger.

I think most cops and retired cops on here can easily see both sides of this situation. Would I have fired? Likely no. Right up to the point where the bad guy turned and fired the taser (you can see the flash on the taser when it's deployed).

I don't know the length of the leads on the taser but at the moment it was fired I doubt I would have been looking for my tape measure to determine if I was safe.

I likely would have done the same thing this poor cop did. It's sad because it's going to cost him a lot. Not only in terms of loss of income but the embarassment of constantly having his name and face in the media , knowing that all your friends and neighbors know what you did, not to mention the psychological trauma that comes from taking a person's life.

I don't give a crap about the dead guy but I do feel for the cop.

 

[Steve S]

Did I read or hear correctly that Brooks died from two gun shot wounds in the back? I'm pretty sure standard operating procedures do not in include shooting fleeing suspects in the back. We can all argue until the cows come home what should or should not have happened in the Brooks case. Bottom line though is times they are a changing and police work needs to evolve to meet the new realities. Back in the day it a posse was formed to go find a perp, he was tracked down and summarily hung from a sturdy branch, easy peasy. Things have changed and continue to change with technology out pacing the ability of policing to keep up. Funny how the technological advances designed to make our lives better, in actuality are responsible for destroying our beloved way of life. Buying a big boat with no TV or internet and plying the coastal waters is looking more and more justifiable every news cycle.
Carpe Diem

CD.

Here is the bodycam footage of the incident. It is edited for time purposes. Summary - He was cooperative UNTIL they went to arrest him for DUI. Then he resisted, fought the officers, grab a taser and ran... turned, fired the taser to which the officer responded with his weapon as Brooks turned back to run - hence hitting him in the back. Happened in a second. The officer did not fire on Brooks as he was simply running away.

 

[JimT]

And maybe don't get drunk and fall asleep in a Wendy's drive thru. LOTS of reasons why people end up involved with police. Usually it is not because they did nothing. That is the whole point of police. They are dealing with crime and criminals or suspected criminals.

But there are laws that are supposed to protect citizens from unlawful police activity. That is why I was asking if ex LEO's think that was a justified use of lethal force/

I don't care what you say, he did not deserve to die for trying to run away.

I can tell you that if I was drunk and the police for some reason fired a taser at me, in my drunken stupor, I might try to run away and defend myself from them. That LEO knew he was drunk and still made a trained decision to draw his firearm and use lethal force on a suspect that was running away.

If that cop gets away with that murder, god help you all. Talk about sheep.

The LEO drew his weapon and fired when the criminal aimed and fired the tazer at him. If the LEO was hit with the tazer the criminal could have taken his firearm and killed him.

 

[boatman37]

We had a similar scenario here in Pittsburgh a few years ago. Google Antwon Rose. Rose was a passenger in a car that matched the description of a car involved in a drive by shooting (that was caught on camera). Officer sees the car with the back window shattered and initiates a felony stop. Passengers jump out and run. Officer shoots Rose in the back and kills him. Officer claims he thought he saw a weapon in his hand. A fleeing felon with a weapon is a threat to the public. Rose did not have a gun when he was shot but the officer was still found to be justified by a jury.

Should this officer had fired? Maybe. He had a split second to react and like I said earlier and GFC reiterated, had he been hit by that taser his gun could have easily been taken and used against him.

Here is another one for you. Google Officer Brian Shaw. Another Pittsburgh area officer shooting. Very similarly Shaw was in a foot pursuit of a suspect and the suspect turned and shot and killed Shaw. Maybe this Atlanta officer should have waited and maybe ended up buried beside Officer Shaw? Monday morning quarterbacking is easy!

 

[Golfman25]

Monday morning quarterbacking is easy!

Extremely easy. You should hear us after the Superbowl.