Winter blend gas, vapor lock and thunderstorms

BillK2632

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2009
2,919
Lake Norman, NC
Boat Info
2014 Cobalt R5
Engines
Volvo Penta V8-300 DPS
So I have never given much thought to the winter vs summer blend fuel - until now. I do know that winter blend has butane mixed in to give it a lower vaporization / flash point, but I'm not a chemist, so that is about all I know. I have not had any problems with vapor lock since I owned the 290da, it vapor locked a few times in the sprint when we first got into warm weather.

So fast forward to Sunday, been a busy spring and have not been to the lake since the last week in April, I also fueled up that weekend. Daughter is home for a few weeks and Sunday was nice but forecast storms in the afternoon. We headed out early, took a nice long ride then anchored in one of our favorite spots. It's between two islands and the sky to the west is blocked by trees. I knew storms were coming, but I guess I started relaxing and lost track - usually pretty good about paying attention, I don't care for thunderstorms on the lake. Next thing I know I big thunderstorm is bearing down. Decided we had enough time to get back to the marina so we pull up the anchor and head out. When I throttled up the engine bogged down and stalled, then cranked again, sputtered and stalled. It finally started back and after tenderly applying throttle we were off and it ran fine. Got away from the storm, but looking back, that would have been no fun stuck out there in that storm. We would have anchored, but it's a small boat so your going to get wet. Using the nautical term "any port in a storm", I am not against pulling into an open boat slip at a private dock on Lake Norman - I've done it once or twice and have yet to have someone come out in a thunderstorm and ask me to leave. plus, the good thing is around here most afternoon thunderstorms pass in 20 min or so.

So back to the winter fuel and vapor lock. This spring, the boat has started "running on" when I shut it down. This is a common problem on carburetor boat engines, since unlike fuel injection the fully doesn't get cut off when you shut down the engine, it's possible for fuel to continue to go through the intake, and fire off in the hot cylinders - hence run on. I have the correct spark plugs and have verified idle timing etc, all is at spec. I am starting to think my "run on" and now what seems like a vapor lock incident is related to still having winter blend fuel in the tank.

Will be filling up again in the next week or two with what I know will be summer blend, so we will see if that solves it.

I know my boat inside and out, and have done all the work on it for years, but it still caused a bit of excitement to have it just quit like that, in not a good spot with a storm coming. If I had not gotten it started, I only had a few hundred feet before I would have been on the beach, we had just come around the island into the wind!
 
I think the problem is the stereo upgrade you did over the winter......

cliff
 
Same thing happened to me once last yr and again 2 weeks ago, both times on a warm spring day running winter gas, anchored out with the genset running. Last spring both motors locked, 2 weeks ago starboard only. I was curious if anyone else had the same issue
 
I think the problem is the stereo upgrade you did over the winter......

cliff

Well, the new stereo was the reason I was distracted and didn't see the storm coming. It really does sound good, I ended up going with 4 Polk Audio speakers, 2 5.25" up in the bow and 2 6.5" in the cockpit. Good deal on the Polk recommendation - thank you.
 
How long has it been since you changed your fuel/water separator filters? Or your fuel filters? That would be the first place I'd look.
 
Replaced the fuel filter in March when I took the boat out of storage. Other than the run on and this stalling / vapor lock thing on Sunday, boat has been running good. I was about to start looking at timing, idle etc to correct the run on (again, checked all that back in March). But with the issue Sunday, the winter blend fuel makes more sense (at least to me) now. According to the Mercruiser tech bulletins on vapor lock and run on, winter blend / formula fuel is the first on the list. I'm down to about 1/2 tank now, so will top off with what I know is summer blend.
 
My filters recently replaced also. Last spring it was a panic moment. When it happened 2 weeks ago I shut off the generator opened the hatch and hung out for another 20 minutes and it started right up with no problems heading back to the dock. Has to be vapor lock... but I've heard it shouldn't happen with fuel injection?


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Well, the new stereo was the reason I was distracted and didn't see the storm coming. It really does sound good, I ended up going with 4 Polk Audio speakers, 2 5.25" up in the bow and 2 6.5" in the cockpit. Good deal on the Polk recommendation - thank you.

by the way we got caught in the same storm.....we were at the swimming hole and was watching the radar closely.....that storm just developed right on top on us and exploded in size quickly.....by the time we got back in the boat and the floats stowed and retrieved the anchor we were in the middle of some heavy rain....luckily we were just a short distance to the marina....put the boat on plane at WOT and ran out ahead of the storm and got docked just before it hit the marina.....since I had taken down the camper canvas last WE the entire inside the boat was soaked....oh well....at least we have the woven vinyl carpet that dries quickly.....

cliff
 
Are you guys sure you're getting different blends of fuel in the south? My understanding was that generally us northerners will get different mixes throughout the year but that southern states/warmer climates don't?

I guess I'd be surprised if Dallas is getting a winter blend unleaded? Similar for NC? Hmmm....
 
Are you guys sure you're getting different blends of fuel in the south? My understanding was that generally us northerners will get different mixes throughout the year but that southern states/warmer climates don't?

I guess I'd be surprised if Dallas is getting a winter blend unleaded? Similar for NC? Hmmm....

I don't think there are refineries dedicated to just the southern states.....so if a refinery is making a 'blended fuel' it would be distributed to all of its customers regardless of geographical location......I believe the gas pipe lines originate from the Gulf Coast and spread throughout the continental US........distributors pull fuel off of these main lines as needed....

cliff
 
From what I know, Cliff is correct, there is winter blend and summer blend and they are the same for the entire country. So in Oct everyone starts getting winter blend and in Apr everyone starts getting summer blend. Hence the problem when warm states (like NC) still have summer blend fuel around when the weather warns in April/May. It was 90* in Charlotte on Saturday.
 
I would think there is no difference with ethanol free gas, summer or winter.
 
Interesting. I found an article earlier today indicating there are no fewer than 20 blends of gas produced for the United States based on different states having 1.) different climates and 2.) different laws and regulations for VOC's. I'll have to see if I can dig that back up.
 
Considering it's happened 2 springs in a row I'm a little surprised there's not more related topics on the forum....my 340 can't be unique to this.


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Searching for Reid Vapor Pressure and summer vs winter blends turns up a number of good articles via Google.

I have a 2005 280DA with twin 4.3MPIs and was having the hot start issue. Drive the boat an hour or so, drop the hook for an hour or so, and both engines would start up, then die in a few seconds and would not re-start.

I could bleed air out of the Schrader on both fuel rails and eventually get one or both restarted. I even rigged up a cross feed manifold with a pressure gauge and a bleed line to get the vapor out. In my case it ultimately turned out to be both fuel pumps in the cool fuel setup on the 4.3's. The chances of 2 electric fuel pumps going out simultaneously on two motors - infinitesimally small, but it happened.

Replaced both cool fuel setups including the lift pumps. It was a major pain. The engines need to be lifted to change them out. I'd LOVE to have a couple of hours of face to face time with the engineer that designed the system.

The replacement lift pumps and cool fuel units fixed the issue. No more bleeding of fuel rails, or not running the genset because I was afraid of building too much heat in the ER, no more opening the hatch and/or running bilge blowers constantly to cool things off. They restart and just work now. Thankfully this fixed the issue. We got caught out on multiple occasions with re-start issues and the Admiral was ready to get rid of the boat!
 
Interesting - like I said I have never had this boat truly vapor lock, have had some run on issues that were solved by proper idle adjustment. This spring is when I notice the run on problem and then the what I think was vapor lock this past weekend. Nothing has changed with my boat, tuning, plugs, adjustments etc. So at this point the only thing I can point to is the fuel, which because of my schedule I am only on the first tank which was put in in April - and would have to be winter blend fuel. I'll know if it resolves itself after the next fill up. If I have the vapor lock issue this weekend, I will do the water on the fuel pump/fuel line trick.
 
I filled the boat in December or January a couple years ago when Gas was like 1.50. That spring my boat ran terrible until that tank of gas was run out. Vapor locked twice and took longer to start than normal. Once that tank was used up never had another issue. I chalked it up to winter blend.....
 
To followup - I fueled up weekend before last. Things seem to have improved, no vapor lock symptoms and the run on is pretty much gone, it was 90 and very humid last two weekends, I have to think it was something to do with the winter blend fuel.
 
It's highly unlikely that the fuel blend is causing your issue. It could be a couple things - 1. Vaporlock (possibly check valve related in the tank pickup) but more than likely 2. Fuel/Ignition related. What carb is on that engine? Assuming Holley 4BL? When you run a boat for an extended period of time, the intake becomes hotter and ultimately the fuel can begin to boil over after the engine is shut off. This will cause a flooding issue when you go to start. Another important thing on Holley carbs is float level in general. If it's too high, it begins to cover the idle circuit and tuning the idle circuit becomes somewhat difficult. The high float level also allows fuel to boil over much easier. My recommendation is to verify fuel level via the sight plugs. Raise or lower it until the fuel is at the very bottom of the sight plug. Adjust your idle mixture screws and set your base idle if need be. Report back.
 

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