why use antifreeze?......

[Henry Boyd]

MM has the basic science down. The point is that water immersion reduces the corrosion rate (once corrosion has started) because the amount of soluble oxygen is limited in comparison to a damp moist environment. Using an corrosion inhibiting anti-freeze reduces it farther. For practical examples; consider cast iron radiators and boilers used for hot water systems (steam boilers and radiators are a different story). Closer to our interests mooring ground tackle is always left in the water year round because it lasts longer than allowing it to sit out in the air during the off season.

There is one exception in that Corrosion inhibiting/resistant steels (Corten, Domex WR/, Dolcol Wr, Riverten-R etc.) will not perform as well as non-resistant steels when immersed in water because of they way they chemically handle corrosion. Likewise, non passivated stainless steel will show signs of corrosion when left immersed in water.

Henry

 

[CliffA]

I think anyone not using antifreeze is being cheap and would de-value their boat as a purchaser for two reasons. One if they are that cheap what else did they skimp on? Two what interior corrosion will I have to pay for?

MM

that's pretty harsh name calling for someone who has a different opinion on the science of how easily rust develops in our boat engines and its affect....i do not disagree with most of your comments but how do we know that the water passages stay 'moist' all of the time?....i think they would dry out fairly quickly once the water is drained from the engine.....also the amount of free oxygen available to feed the rust formation can be limited or possibly eliminated by simply reinstalling the drain plugs once the water is drained....until someone does an in-depth study of this (which is highly unlikely) and actually cuts open an engine to monitor what is happening all we have are our opinions on what happens....differing opinions are a good thing normally...but to resort to name calling or labeling just because we have a different opinion i feel is not warranted....

the cost of the anti-freeze is not a factor as i mentioned in the original post...and i assure you i do not 'skimp' on the upkeep and maintenance of my boat....

 

[MonacoMike]

that's pretty harsh name calling for someone who has a different opinion on the science of how easily rust develops in our boat engines and its affect....i do not disagree with most of your comments but how do we know that the water passages stay 'moist' all of the time?....i think they would dry out fairly quickly once the water is drained from the engine.....also the amount of free oxygen available to feed the rust formation can be limited or possibly eliminated by simply reinstalling the drain plugs once the water is drained....until someone does an in-depth study of this (which is highly unlikely) and actually cuts open an engine to monitor what is happening all we have are our opinions on what happens....differing opinions are a good thing normally...but to resort to name calling or labeling just because we have a different opinion i feel is not warranted....

the cost of the anti-freeze is not a factor as i mentioned in the original post...and i assure you i do not 'skimp' on the upkeep and maintenance of my boat....

Sorry Cliff, I was describing my opinion of an action, not trying to call anyone a name. If you feel it was badly stated I will edit it so as not to offend anyone. I cannot change your quote of me so you would need to delete it if you want it changed.

MM

 

[CliffA]

Sorry Cliff, I was describing my opinion of an action, not trying to call anyone a name. If you feel it was badly stated I will edit it so as not to offend anyone. I cannot change your quote of me so you would need to delete it if you want it changed.

MM

i've got pretty thick skin...i am a Purchaser by trade so i don't get offended easily.....no harm done...i actually enjoy discussing topics where people have differing opinions...thats how we learn as long as we are willing to keep open minds....

have a great holiday my friend....

cliff

 

[Woody]

MM has the basic science down. The point is that water immersion reduces the corrosion rate (once corrosion has started) because the amount of soluble oxygen is limited in comparison to a damp moist environment. Using an corrosion inhibiting anti-freeze reduces it farther. For practical examples; consider cast iron radiators and boilers used for hot water systems (steam boilers and radiators are a different story). Closer to our interests mooring ground tackle is always left in the water year round because it lasts longer than allowing it to sit out in th e air during the off season.

There is one exception in that Corrosion inhibiting/resistant steels (Corten, Domex WR/, Dolcol Wr, Riverten-R etc.) will not perform as well as non-resistant steels when immersed in water because of they way they chemically handle corrosion. Likewise, non passivated stainless steel will show signs of corrosion when left immersed in water.

Henry

I suspect there's other contributors, maybe salt, it would accelerate the reaction I think, ph maybe. When I used to have an iron pile the stuff under roof rusted hardly at all and the ends of long stock that stuck out, a little faster. Anything laying on the ground rusted fastest, especially the down side. I guess that could be an illustration of either view but in engine coolant passages I wonder how much air exchange/moisture there really would be. My engines do have that lite coat of slime in them but I've seen that in auto engines that are always filled with antifreeze. I'm going to pay a little more attention to this, I might have to change my 'cheap' ways.:smt043

 

[KHE]

As far as rust that occurs in the engine while in storage, It would take several lifetimes before an exhaust manifold or the block would corrode enough to ruin the respective component.

 

[Woody]

As far as rust that occurs in the engine while in storage, It would take several lifetimes before an exhaust manifold or the block would corrode enough to ruin the respective component.

It sure looks like location, water, exposure have to be factored in. The warmer climate saltwater guys seem to have to watch things much closer. There's sure enough pics here of rotted exhaust elbows, corroded drives, etc from mostly them.

 

[KHE]

It sure looks like location, water, exposure have to be factored in. The warmer climate saltwater guys seem to have to watch things much closer. There's sure enough pics here of rotted exhaust elbows, corroded drives, etc from mostly them.

I was speaking from a freshwater perspective. Saltwater would need to be flushed out which should happen every time the boat is brought back in.

 

[MonacoMike]

As far as rust that occurs in the engine while in storage, It would take several lifetimes before an exhaust manifold or the block would corrode enough to ruin the respective component.

Why do risers and manifolds ever need to be replaced in fresh water if not for corrosion? They do corrode in fresh water and quality antifreeze will help pervent this.

MM

 

[Henry Boyd]

Arrgh!! Will somebody please read up on what causes corrosion! I'll lay it out as simple as I can. Water contains dissolved oxygen. Steel /(iron with carbon) will combine with oxygen to create iron oxide (rust). Inside an engine even after being drained a moisture rich environment will exist. This definition is not the same as your house. Anti freeze will coat the metal and prevent the O2 from combining with the iron.

Look this is basic corrosion engineering 101. Using anti freeze works to save your motor(s), not using it, doesn't.

I have a couple of shelves with books devoted to the subject of marine corrosion prevention, as well as a masters thesis on the topic. Use anti freeze or don't I don't really care. Just do not try and say not using it will be ok, because the science says it won't.

Henry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[MonacoMike]

Well explained Henry. Have a Merry Christmas.

MM

 

[ZZ13]

Arrgh!! Will somebody please read up on what causes corrosion! I'll lay it out as simple as I can. Water contains dissolved oxygen. Steel /(iron with carbon) will combine with oxygen to create iron oxide (rust). Inside an engine even after being drained a moisture rich environment will exist. This definition is not the same as your house. Anti freeze will coat the metal and prevent the O2 from combining with the iron.

Look this is basic corrosion engineering 101. Using anti freeze works to save your motor(s), not using it, doesn't.

I have a couple of shelves with books devoted to the subject of marine corrosion prevention, as well as a masters thesis on the topic. Use anti freeze or don't I don't really care. Just do not try and say not using it will be ok, because the science says it won't.

Henry


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

So where is the value cut-off point for year round boaters (or even seasonal boaters)? Should you dump antifreeze in whenever you know you won't be firing up the engines for 2 weeks, a month, 2 months, 3 months, 4 months?