Why no Diesel powered smaller cruisers in the states

A

AllTideUp

Member
May 6, 2013
200
Northern Virginia
Boat Info
2003 SeaRay 380 Sundancer
Engines
8.1s - 370HP
I'm sure this has been discussed at great length else where on this forum but I haven't found a thread on it.

I currently have a 240DA and want to eventually go bigger to a 280DA maybe even a 310DA but mostly what you find are gassers. While I know the fuel consumption will go up with bigger/twin motors I'm just curious as to why there aren't more diesel cruisers out there in this range. I saw the posts that SR offers them overseas and people boasting great consumption numbers so what gives?

Do Americans just not want diesel? I just bought a diesel passat and am very impressed by the milage I get out of that! I know the boat won't be nearly that same but still, with the numbers that others post, it would seem like you would see more boats using diesel instead of gassers, even if it was say twin 4cyl motors or something.

:huh::huh:
 
I'm interested in seeing the answer here. My guess it keeping the price down and that small cruisers are used on inland waterways. Many of which might not have diesel fuel.
 
no diesel fuel available on many inland lakes mine inlcluded
 
I once read the point gas becomes more expensive to run is 16,000 pounds. I like gas because I can fix the engines. I have seen deisel in a 28 foot Bayliner the owner said it was a special option.
 
Two things here, weight and cost. Diesel engines can cost many times more than hull structure. Hard to absorb that much cost in a 20-28 footer. Weight comes in as the engine will produce anywhere from 12-22 to 1 compression ratio. This means the block, head and webbing structure are greatly increased. The offset is great torque increases.
 
There are a few smaller cruiser models around. Mainship made the 30 Pilot for awhile (more of a down east style boat), and now Cutwater makes the 28 and 30 with diesels. Their sister company makes the Ranger Tugs in 25-31 lengths with diesel. Different layouts than the typical express cruiser, but still a cruiser. Prices are still pretty high for any of the diesel boats that I have seen.

Mike
 
I couldve ordered mine with a diesel, but it was something like a $30k option over the standard 350 Mag. Less hp and lower cruising/top speed, and smaller (26-30') cruisers can get close to 2mpg with much simpler and cheaper to maintain twin 4.3's.

They can hide the extra cost of twin diesels a lot easier when the MSRP is approaching 7 digits.
 
Last edited:
The manufacturer of "Monaro" boats in Richmond, B.C. offer a Volvo diesel in all their boats, including the 21'. Their web site shows a 21 with a diesel jumping a wave in the Strait of Georgia. For some reason the diesels must run at higher RPM's when coupled to a stern drive, something to do with the torque. This may override any gain in fuel economy in the smaller boats. The out drives must be specially designed as well due to the high torque. I do think that it all boils down to $$$$$$$$$. http://www.monaromarine.com/
 
Scott, having Volvo Penta as a sister company lets me see some of the cutting edge green technology coming to both marine and construction equipment. The electric drive is great on larger boats where air borne moisture and salt intrusion can be monitored and treated in an engine/gen room. Not so on smaller boats. That's where the technology is great but longevity is small. Even without the salt, humidity levels take there toll on the electrical systems. Now add some moisture proof covers and the heat and cost are prohibitive.

Not saying it can't be done in a cruiser and some are working on it. It just doesn't seem feasible at this time.
 
Just to follow up Scott. There are proto diesels cranking out 100+mph on the water and electric drives doing the same. Just remember prototype is the word here. Anything is possible today but it's just not probable. We have a hard enough time getting electric power to work on the ground let lone on the water.
 
Chris,
Volvo Penta with dual and single prop configuration is offered in these boats. Engine size range from the D3, D4, and D6 with HP between 140 and 400. The engine features a common rail fuel system that generate about 35,000PSI injection pressure. (Old engine used about 2,500PSI back in the day). Torque ranges can be programmed into the controller for application needs.
The injectors are electrically fired by software and can be tuned for timing and power needs.

The D3 runs out at about 4000rpm and the D6 about 3500rpm. Turbo lag is almost a thing of the past because the timing and fuel can now be regulated during throttle up and turbo action has been refined.

Couple these engines with the Volvo dual prop system and you’ll have a system that will impress even the die-hard gasser.
 
Last edited:
I have been been test driving a 44 boat with the D6 duo props, turbo, and I believe super chargers. Yeah, the torque, responsiveness...all of the above. These are stern drives. I hear and read a lot of opinions re these systems and their reliability. There are many commercial fisherman in the PAC nw who hammer these systems every day and the engines and drives perform well. I have no illusions re the pm for these, but I think it is worth it.
Old Skool, sounds like you know these engines well.

OldSkool said:
Chris,
Volvo Penta with dual and single prop configuration is offered in these boats. Engine size range from the D3, D4, and D6 with HP between 140 and 400. The engine features a common rail fuel system that generate about 35,000PSI injection pressure. (Old engine used about 2,500PSI back in the day). Torque ranges can be programmed into the controller for application needs.
The injectors are electrically fired by software and can be tuned for timing and power needs.

The D3 runs out at about 3000rpm and the D6 about 4000rpm. Turbo lag is almost a thing of the past because the timing and fuel can now be regulated during throttle up and turbo action has been refined.

Couple these engines with the Volvo dual prop system and you’ll have a system that will impress even the die-hard gasser.
Click to expand...
 
Bill,
I teach these engines every day. From the D3 up to the D16 with 750HP. I also teach the new SCR tier IV final Engine After Treatment System, EATS.

Common rail injection on the D3-D8 provides high fuel pressure to the injector. The delivery lines are use once lines. If you break open a fitting the line needs replaced to prevent leakage. The injectors can deliver fuel in advanced, TDC, or retarded modes depending on the torque curve for the application.
Need more power then set the software to let the injector open a bit longer for a little more fuel. Most all Volvo marine diesels use turbo charger. They are optimized to match the fuel system and torque need.

Turbo lag is minimal.

The stern drives have protection couplers on the drive. My buddy blow his out the second time he had his Sting Ray out. Went from F to R and back to F at high speed while trying to dock. The repair was about 600us parts and all which is way better than destroying the drive gears.
 
sfergson727 said:
Good stuff, thanks! Hopefully in the future, they'll figure out a way for a boat like mine to leave the slip and get back without having to spend $100 or more for the privilege. (I have figured it's at least that much each time the boat goes out)
Click to expand...

Scott, Take heart green power is here to stay. One day we will be returning cleaner air back to atmosphere than we take in. Many industry's are committed to making hybrids a reality in all applications including the company I work for. I will tell you that only company's with deep pockets can afford the R&D it takes to bring this technology to market. Your wish may be possible by the time you buy your next SR.
 
Gasoline is cheaper than diesel. Sure the diesel is more efficient, but not always in dollars per mile.
 
It isn't just Volvo - The company Sea Ray buys MAN engines from, PDI, has marinized a GM Duramax engine. Prior management gave the diesel company a 270DA with a B-III transom assembly/outdrive as a test platform and the boat supposedly performed great, was fast , had loads of torque and was very efficient. Like a lot of other things, apparently the new management decided not to pursue the Duramax as a power option in our favorite brand.

If you attended the Homecoming in Knoxville, you had the opportunity and maybe even did meet Malcom Phillips of Performance Diesel, Inc., who was a fascinating guy was an open book.
 
sfergson727 said:
Some time ago, an entrepreneur took a 36-39 foot Sea Ray, and installed a single diesel engine in it, which powered a generator for two electric motors. While the numbers were not spectacular, it still got around 1.5 mpg, and had similar performance numbers for cruise and top end. I really hoped it would take off, but it's been a decade, and nothing has come of it.

I'd love that setup.....

(It even used the onboard generator as a source of emergency power which could run the electric motors at idle thrust.)
Click to expand...

Here you go Scott. http://www.eyachts.com.au/motor_yachts_19?gclid=CLmpl-rB0rwCFREDvAodLhoAdQ
 
Wow lots of posts heh.

I know anything marine is going to add $$ when you want to change something. Yes the motor must be Marinized so that you don't blow yourself up but I can't imagine it would cost an extra $30k between the 350 MAG and a diesel able to provide similar results. They do it in cars with a small premium over the gas equivalent ~$3k maybe change on my passat.

I have seem posts on here that people in europe have a diesel 280, whats the difference in price between the american gassers and the European diesel models?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,241
Messages
1,429,113
Members
61,122
Latest member
DddAae
Back
Top