Who's gonna owe taxes this year?

[kvduff]

While that is what Long Island Politicians and School Administrators would love for you to believe, a closer look at empirical data reveals that it’s overly simplistic and actually not exactly true.
NYC contributes a lot to the state. More than the rest of the State combined.
I get a kick out of my Long Island neighbors blaming NYC for their high school taxes. They complain that the property tax on houses in NYC was too low and that we paid more to subsidize the NYC schools. Not a penny of any of my school or property tax goes to NYC.
Yes, NYC taxes on single family houses are lower than a comparably valued house in Nassau County. But the guy in Queens paying $3000.00 a year in property taxes on his 1200 square foot house on a 40 x 80 lot is also paying a City income tax of about 4% and his total household income is probably a decent amount if he is able to afford to buy that house so it all works out in the end.
Example: I’ve got one brother that still lives in an all attached house with no backyard in Queens. His property taxes are just under 3k a year. His wife is a NYC School Teacher who works full time in a summer camp when school is out and he is a NYC Sanitation worker. I would venture to guess that they probably pay about 8k a year in City income tax. That makes a rough total of about 11k a year for a tiny house with no extra property and a bus stop in front of it.
We left NYC 23 years ago because of the high cost to remain there.
NYC gets state aid for their schools, but so do Long Island districts. The percentage of what the City gets back from the State is about the same as what the Long Island districts get back. The reality is that largely because of the economy of scale, it costs NYC less per pupil to educate kids than it cost in a Long Island district. Long Islanders largely reject the idea of combining school districts to take advantage of that economy of scale.
The amount of revenue the State gets from City income, sales, mortgage, hotel, and other taxes is more than the entire rest of the State combined.
NYC does put a heavy strain on State entitlements, but Long Island has their fair share of tax drains per capita too, and a lot of upstate NY is really depressed. The rest of the state would be hard pressed to find a way to pay for all of that if the Tax base in NYC weren’t in the mix.
Like in most big cities, because of gentrification, the highest concentration of entitlement recipients in NYC are probably in public housing these days. NY State doesn’t subsidize NYCHA. The City pays for it from their tax base along with heavy subsidies from the Feds. That’s why the Governor has absolutely zero to do with NYCHA and it’s HUD Secretary Ben Carson that is considering a takeover from the Mayor.
Tolls on East River crossings are insane and exist largely to supplement the subway fares. But they also subsidize the aging and inefficient commuter rail systems that carry all those surburbanites in to NYC where most of them transfer on to the subsidized subway lines that carry them back and forth to the jobs where they earn the money to pay their Long Island property taxes.

Bottom line: The insanely high property taxes on Long Island are attributable to local waste, fraud, and abuse, more than anything else.
They had a good run out here for about 40 years after World War II when the suburban sprawl really kicked in and potato farms turned in to large communities. Nobody really paid attention to the local leeches lining their pockets because they were able to keep growing the tax base with more land development. It was a great scheme until they ran out of room to build. Things really got out of hand when all those schools they built in the 1950’s and 1960’s to accommodate the young families got old enough by the 1990’s to need major Capitol improvements. That’s when the crap really hit the fan.

I appreciate your response, however, in my eyes, NYC is a shithole, it’s become a strain on the region, and as soon as I’m finished working I’m out of here.

 

[KevinC]

Don't believe that in Canada health care is free. At one time, maybe but today between Health and Dental Plan costs along with their deductibles and limitations + an annual federal government EHT (employer health tax) my costs are about $4000/yr. Doesn't sound free anymore - right?

Compared to approx $2500/mo for a Family with Dental + deductibles and max limits?
Yes that is basically free

-Kevin

 

[JVM225]

Very few things in life are ever really free. Either you’re paying for it some other way, or someone else is picking up the tab.

 

[sbw1]

At least taxes in Canada fund useful things to society like education, healthcare, and infrastructure.

I retired from healthcare after many years. Being located in a boarder state, we had the opportunity to serve many wealthy Canadians who bought care in Michigan. These were mainly elective tests and surgical procedures. They were able to receive high quality care without waiting in line. We enjoyed the opportunity to serve them, and the people we served were happy to pay for their care in the US. People enjoy the freedom to chose.

 

[Woody]

Very few things in life are ever really free. Either you’re paying for it some other way, or someone else is picking up the tab.

Could you call up Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and do some mansplainin'....she don't get it.

 

[Woody]

I believe that to be accurate. You’ll notice in Vancouver the residential tax rate is $2.47 per $1000 of asessed value which equates to a .25% property tax rate. Mine are slightly higher at .43% here in North Vancouver. Assessed value is also typically 10-20% less than market value.

One thing I noticed is how commercial properties are taxed at much higher rates in Canada. I took a quick look at my area, the city, and township. Walmart and the guy a few blocks away in his 35K house both pay the same rate.

 

[KevinC]

Could you call up Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and do some mansplainin'....she don't get it.

Why should she. She didn't even know the three Chambers of Congress, um three Chambers, uh branches of the government, ya know the President the Senate and Congress.

-Kevin

 

[M Prod]

View attachment 63616

I retired from healthcare after many years. Being located in a boarder state, we had the opportunity to serve many wealthy Canadians who bought care in Michigan. These were mainly elective tests and surgical procedures. They were able to receive high quality care without waiting in line. We enjoyed the opportunity to serve them, and the people we served were happy to pay for their care in the US. People enjoy the freedom to chose.

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that if one has the money and chooses to do so. My wife just had a precautionary biopsy done, and we paid out of pocket so we could have it done right away in Seattle. Otherwise she would have had to wait 2 months, but we just wanted peace of mind. And we could afford it so why not? Wait times for treatments/procedures for elective/non life threatening conditions can sometimes be long. On the flip side, you will never have to wait for or be denied a potentially life saving treatment/procedure in Canada ..no matter who you are.

 

[sbw1]

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that if one has the money and chooses to do so. My wife just had a precautionary biopsy done, and we paid out of pocket so we could have it done right away in Seattle. Otherwise she would have had to wait 2 months, but we just wanted peace of mind. And we could afford it so why not? Wait times for treatments/procedures for elective/non life threatening conditions can sometimes be long. On the flip side, you will never have to wait for or be denied a potentially life saving treatment/procedure in Canada ..no matter who you are.

Yes. Not implying anything wrong with going to the US. We welcomed the busines. We also took care of everyone who came to our ER regardless of who they were or where they came from. That unrestricted access is however taking a toll on ERs around the country as more people look to them as a source of primary care. Hope that your loved on got the peace she was looking for.

 

[Creekwood]

Don't believe that in Canada health care is free. At one time, maybe but today between Health and Dental Plan costs along with their deductibles and limitations + an annual federal government EHT (employer health tax) my costs are about $4000/yr. Doesn't sound free anymore - right?

Back out the dental care since that is separate from other health care, and the EHT since that is paid by employers, not individuals. The rest, other than some prescription drugs, is free. Good (maybe not "excellent", but good), health care in Canada is in most respects, free.

Our family has had direct experience over the past year with health care in Canada and in the US. I will take Canada's system over the US any day. When you see someone you love having to make cancer treatment choices based on the cost, rather than the outcome, you might change your view a little.

I HATE paying high taxes in Canada (and I have paid a lot of income taxes over the years), but the portion that pays for universal health care, I am happy to pay.

Universal health care (as long as it is as efficient as possible), is one thing that a good government that is truly "of the people, by the people, and for the people" should be doing. And most do:

 

[KevinC]

Back out the dental care since that is separate from other health care, and the EHT since that is paid by employers, not individuals. The rest, other than some prescription drugs, is free. Good (maybe not "excellent", but good), health care in Canada is in most respects, free.

Our family has had direct experience over the past year with health care in Canada and in the US. I will take Canada's system over the US any day. When you see someone you love having to make cancer treatment choices based on the cost, rather than the outcome, you might change your view a little.

I HATE paying high taxes in Canada (and I have paid a lot of income taxes over the years), but the portion that pays for universal health care, I am happy to pay.

Universal health care (as long as it is as efficient as possible), is one thing that a good government that is truly "of the people, by the people, and for the people" should be doing. And most do:
View attachment 63651

Then why do the citizens of most of those check marked countries travel to the USA when then want the absolute best treatment and doctors or can't afford to wait for what they may get for free? Also while we do not have fully government provided and run healthcare it is available to virtually everyone already and hospitals generally can not refuse treatment at the ER to people in need regardless.

Personally I feel the government should stick to governing and not running businesses. That's why the markets with competition tend to drive prices down and quality of services/products up. While this is not 100% and we do need rules to prevent abuse removing competition rarely helps the people acquiring the services. Proof in point is the current situation down in Venezuela with the government/military take over of the oil industry.

Our problem here in the US is that the very little has been done to really fix the problems of providing healthcare affordably. States still regulate local insurance and impose rules that intentionally hurt us to help prop up the insurance companies by reducing competition and limiting our ability to negotiate as part of a larger group. The rules that they impose make you shake your head an wonder why they do things.

-Kevin

 

[JVM225]

The last thing we need in the US is the government running healthcare.
Our Congress doesn’t have a great track record.
These are the same people who bankrupted social security, screwed up Medicare, pay through the nose for prescription drugs with taxpayer money, can’t pass a basic immigration policy, and can make a partisan argument out of just about anything.
Regardless of how you feel about Universal Healthcare in Canada, the one thing you can count on is that the Politicians in DC would not only screw it up in the US, turn it in to a mudslinging fight that they can fundraise off of, and they’ll probably get rich from doing it.

 

[sbw1]

Single payer ( the result of nationalization of health care) will create the same ques in the US that all major governmental health systems experience. Makes one wonder where our Canadian friends will go for their elective high tech tests and procedures once the long waits become commonplace in the USA.

 

[JVM225]

Then why do the citizens of most of those check marked countries travel to the USA when then want the absolute best treatment and doctors or can't afford to wait for what they may get for free? Also while we do not have fully government provided and run healthcare it is available to virtually everyone already and hospitals generally can not refuse treatment at the ER to people in need regardless.

Personally I feel the government should stick to governing and not running businesses. That's why the markets with competition tend to drive prices down and quality of services/products up. While this is not 100% and we do need rules to prevent abuse removing competition rarely helps the people acquiring the services. Proof in point is the current situation down in Venezuela with the government/military take over of the oil industry.

Our problem here in the US is that the very little has been done to really fix the problems of providing healthcare affordably. States still regulate local insurance and impose rules that intentionally hurt us to help prop up the insurance companies by reducing competition and limiting our ability to negotiate as part of a larger group. The rules that they impose make you shake your head an wonder why they do things.

-Kevin

I’m a few months away from Medicare and looking at options. They’re a bit confusing.
Interestingly enough, you can get a Medicare Part C policy from a private insurer which will, in most cases, give you better benefits for around the same amount of money.
Basically, from what I can gather, the reason is that the private insurers can do it cheaper than Medicare can.
If that’s really the case for people 65 and older, I’m hard pressed to see any logical reason to let the government take over health insurance for the rest of the population.

 

[Ididntdoit]

I’m a few months away from Medicare and looking at options. They’re a bit confusing.
Interestingly enough, you can opt out of the mandatory monthly Part B (the Doctors) payment to the government if you get a Medicare Part C policy from a private insurer which will, in most cases, give you better benefits for around the same amount of money you would have to pay the Government if you live here in NY and for a lot less than what Uncle Sam hits you for in some other states.
Basically, from what I can gather, the reason is that the private insurers can do it cheaper than Medicare can.
If that’s really the case for people 65 and older, I’m hard pressed to see any logical reason to let the government take over health insurance for the rest of the population.

you're misinformed - a part C or advantage plan requires that you be enrolled in part B - the gov't then subsidizes the insurance company you choose - the result - a shittier network but with lower copays, ok if it suits your needs - but make no mistake, you still must pay for part B

 

[Golfman25]

And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that if one has the money and chooses to do so. My wife just had a precautionary biopsy done, and we paid out of pocket so we could have it done right away in Seattle. Otherwise she would have had to wait 2 months, but we just wanted peace of mind. And we could afford it so why not? Wait times for treatments/procedures for elective/non life threatening conditions can sometimes be long. On the flip side, you will never have to wait for or be denied a potentially life saving treatment/procedure in Canada ..no matter who you are.

Isn't a biopsy a "potentially life saving treatment/procedure?" Isn't the whole thing about battling cancer is to catch it early?

 

[Golfman25]

View attachment 63654 Single payer ( the result of nationalization of health care) will create the same ques in the US that all major governmental health systems experience. Makes one wonder where our Canadian friends will go for their elective high tech tests and procedures once the long waits become commonplace in the USA.

There is one true economic fact that no politician or government can alter. You can only ration goods/service via price or shortages. National healthcare is rationed by wait time, ie; shortages. In the US, it is rationed by price. Pick your poison.

 

[M Prod]

Isn't a biopsy a "potentially life saving treatment/procedure?" Isn't the whole thing about battling cancer is to catch it early?

In a nutshell no one thought it was cancer. It was just a precaution to be 100%.

 

[M Prod]

Then why do the citizens of most of those check marked countries travel to the USA when then want the absolute best treatment and doctors or can't afford to wait for what they may get for free?

-Kevin

I think that’s a bit of an overstatement. Last year 52000 Canadians elected to have procedures done elsewhere (not just the US) and again ..these were strictly elective procedures and non life threatening. Only because they didn’t want to wait and could afford to do so. ..but not because the care is necessarily better elsewhere. You never have to wait in Canada for a potentially life saving treatment/procedure. You will also never be denied that procedure. The percentage of Canadians who again elected for optional treatments represents roughly .15% of the Canadian population. Conversely 2% of the US population gets their prescriptions from Canada (either in person or online) due to much higher prescription costs in the US.

I’ll add that life expectency in Canada beats out the US and infant mortality is less than half what it is in the US. These are important statistics when looking at the quality of health care anywhere.

In any case I’m not trying to make this into an us versus them discussion. When I lived in the US I had great health care ..but I also had a good job that afforded me that health care. I can’t say the same for many people who live in the US. Now I live in Canada, and I have great health care here too. And so does everyone else. I personally believe health care should be a basic human right and not a privilege. You may disagree and that’s fine. But I don’t believe anyone should be denied health care because of personal circumstance that many a time an individual (children for instance) don’t have any control over.

That is my opinion. You’re of course free to disagree.

 

[Gofirstclass]

Conversely 2% of the US population gets their prescriptions from Canada (either in person or online) due to much higher prescription costs in the US.

Part of the reason people from the USS buy their drugs in other countries is not necessarily the price, but sometimes just the availability of the drugs.

This summer, while in France, we bought codeine tablets. The pharmacist told me "well, normally you're supposed to have a prescription."

When I questioned her about her use of the word "normally", she said it was not always the case. She asked me if I was in pain and I said I was having back pains and we were set to fly home in a day. She sold me a box of 40 codeine pills for about $12 IIRC. Those same pills in the US would absolutely require a prescription which meant a trip to the doctor ($$$$) and a high cost for the drugs.