What's the law for boarding of city police while at your slip?

Gofirstclass said:
I'll suggest all of you ignore the statement above 'cause it'll get you in heap o' trouble.

Go back and read JVM225's information again because he's right on with the info.

To take it a step further and answer the OP's question, in most areas where they have water with boats, there will be water cops from a host of agencies (municipal, county, state, federal) that have authority to regulate boats, boaters and boat traffic. (I"ll type this real slow so SOME of you can fully understand it!!).

Obviously the USCG has the lawful ability to board any boat, anywhere, any time within territorial waters. Most state and local agencies have similar powers within their own jurisdictions, and many federal agencies have similar powers on navigable waters and inland lakes. Among those powers is the power to enforce laws that come from many different levels.

In areas where there are county water cops and city water cops, the city cops will generally have a county commission from the county the city is in, plus adjoining counties. These commissions extend their powers to the whole counties, and adjacent counties.

So, to answer part of the question...the cops most likely were operating in an area where they had jurisdiction. As to boarding your boat, if it's in the water, yes they most likely do have the authority to board. They don't need to have probable cause or a "reasonable belief" that a crime is being committed. An example of that would be to board your boat to check for safety equipment, proper registration, etc.

To address the comment made above, if you refuse to allow them to board you may be subjecting yourself to arrest for resisting a lawful process.

Having been on that side of the badge for many years, I gotta tell you there's not much more that a cop likes to encounter on a slow day than someone who refused to let them do what they know they have the lawful right to do. Wayne, try your line some time if the cops want to board your boat. The first thing you'll notice is they kinda look at each other and snicker, because they know their day just became more interesting and their stats are about to go up.
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Good Post 1st class. See highlighted! I would tend to disagree!

In Alaska the above concept is now in Court. Based on the Alaska Constitution and the Alaska National Interests Land Conservation ACT (ANILCA) there is an argument to be made that federal officers such as the Forest Service or National Park Service do not have a right to enforce state laws on navigable waterways. The argument is that these waters are under state jurisdiction, not the feds.

Want to read about it? On the last thread the guy’s letter to the Secretary of Interior is interesting:
http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_...kon-Charley?instance=local_news#ixzz1b8mmMse9

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_...he-state-must-fight-to-preserve-access-rights

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/106297-Alaska-s-Rivers
 
It appears to me that a search warrant is still necessary and the normal way of operation with understandable exceptions recently made. The weight is on law enforcement to apply the exceptions were truly needed and not use them to abuse our rights. On the subject of rights, I think the statement 'I have a right to feel safe' is terribly abused and misunderstood. A good example of this is HH willingness to subject all that surround him to a violation of theirs in an effort to protect his. We would have to assign some Secret Service and several ninjas to protect HH 24/7 and even then his safety could not be guaranteed liked he would like.
 
were on a chain of Lakes , two countys ,patroled by county and DNR , for a few years ,the state had grant money and had the CG out here too, we are a land locked chain of lakes consisting of 14 lakes and rouphly 35 miles of river, one county Patrol is not bad , the other county patrol will stop you for anything, im not exagerating , I really thinking of slipping on the big pond this year, you could be anchored anywhere and the LE will pull up alongside you and demand a safety check , thats when i get mad , I have CG safety stickers on my boat , i tell the Officer my vessel fully complys with the USCG safety regulations , and show them my paper work and the sticker , he doesnt care he wants a safety check anyway and asks if i have been drinking , Mind you we are anchored for the day and night , I believe I can drink if were not under way , I showed him jackets and fire extinguisher , he now wants to see batteries , I say well i have to remove carpet, chairs and coolers , if you put them back fine , The LE gets abit frustrated, I ask what did i do wrong Im out here with my G/f and her 4 year old son ,and you can plainly see he has his bright yellow life jacket on !!! , the officer wants to go In my cabin and boarded my boat , thats when the fun started , ,,,,,,, I yelled officer ! please remove yourself from my HOME , this is my home you do not have a warrant , remove yourself from this vessel , we got into it abit , I imediately got my attorny on the line , handed the phone to the officer after he laughed at me , not believeing I truly had me attorney on line , once the convo ended , the officer got off my boat , and Ive never been hassled by him agian , now if only the others would leave me alone ,,,, NOW let me tell you ,I am American and deserve my rights as an American ! my boat is my home in the summer /weekends , what is in the cabin is my private stuff , and thats my right !!!!! I have nothing to hide , but dont want a cop riffling thru our underwear/clothes and other stuff , I can see if I am doing something wrong , yes i deserve to get hassled abit , but when we are doing absolutely nothing !! DO NOT BOARD MY HOME
 
Summer Fund II said:
GFC. WTF you are in a private marina/slip and you're telling me ......

That any law enforcement can come on your boat without legal permission to do so ??.
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Yup. The key words are "without legal permission". There are huge differences between those three words and another three words..."without lawful authority". Wayne, all your bravado notwithstanding, if cops are acting with what they feel is lawful authority, they do not need your permission to board your boat. If there is a question about whether or not they were acting with lawful authority, that will be up to the courts to decide, it is not up to you to decide at the time. So, while the cops are on the dock and about to board your boat, and you stand there puffing out your chest and acting real brave (and stupid, I might add) trying to prevent them from doing so, you likely will find yourself arrested, spread eagled on the dock, then handcuffed and stuffed into their patrol car while they board your boat.

So, with all your huffing and puffing, what have you gained? The cops still boarded your boat, looked for whatever they were looking for, and you ended up with your ass in the slammer. A lot of good your huffing and puffing did for you, right?

AKBassking, I watched that as it worked its way through the courts. It's interesting to note the differences between how the arrested guy was portrayed in the beginning and how he was later correctly identified as having been through the court system many times prior. I haven't seen an outcome on this case yet, has it been settled?

Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of getting my boat searched any more than any of you. I happen to know a few things about searches and seizures and know what questions to ask of any cops that want to board my boat. If the questions are answered correctly I'll let them board without any problems. If the questions are not answered to my satisfaction, I'll still let them board and we'll settle the matter later.

The difference between my low key approach and Wayne's huffing and puffing is that at the end of the cops contact with me I'll still be able to go boating and he'll be put into a not-so-comfortable jail cell. Acts of bravado don't go very far in impressing cops. They've seen that game before and they always win.
 
fasttoys7619 said:
were on a chain of Lakes , two countys ,patroled by county and DNR , for a few years ,the state had grant money and had the CG out here too, we are a land locked chain of lakes consisting of 14 lakes and rouphly 35 miles of river, one county Patrol is not bad , the other county patrol will stop you for anything, im not exagerating , I really thinking of slipping on the big pond this year, you could be anchored anywhere and the LE will pull up alongside you and demand a safety check , thats when i get mad , I have CG safety stickers on my boat , i tell the Officer my vessel fully complys with the USCG safety regulations , and show them my paper work and the sticker , he doesnt care he wants a safety check anyway and asks if i have been drinking , Mind you we are anchored for the day and night , I believe I can drink if were not under way , I showed him jackets and fire extinguisher , he now wants to see batteries , I say well i have to remove carpet, chairs and coolers , if you put them back fine , The LE gets abit frustrated, I ask what did i do wrong Im out here with my G/f and her 4 year old son ,and you can plainly see he has his bright yellow life jacket on !!! , the officer wants to go In my cabin and boarded my boat , thats when the fun started , ,,,,,,, I yelled officer ! please remove yourself from my HOME , this is my home you do not have a warrant , remove yourself from this vessel , we got into it abit , I imediately got my attorny on the line , handed the phone to the officer after he laughed at me , not believeing I truly had me attorney on line , once the convo ended , the officer got off my boat , and Ive never been hassled by him agian , now if only the others would leave me alone ,,,, NOW let me tell you ,I am American and deserve my rights as an American ! my boat is my home in the summer /weekends , what is in the cabin is my private stuff , and thats my right !!!!! I have nothing to hide , but dont want a cop riffling thru our underwear/clothes and other stuff , I can see if I am doing something wrong , yes i deserve to get hassled abit , but when we are doing absolutely nothing !! DO NOT BOARD MY HOME
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If you speak as well as you write, I would assume you were drinking also.
 
OK I reflected.....I'm going with Ben.

Should we give up our rights to bear arms? The government believes we, the people, would be safer without them so it must be true right? The last thing the government wants is its citizens armed to the teeth. If the government is so innocent and looking out for us, the poeple, why would that be?

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Ben Franklin

To me, this still seems to apply today. Hard to contest the vote in Russia and Iran holding sticks and rocks.
 
Four Suns said:
If you speak as well as you write, I would assume you were drinking also.
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haha and he is back !! sorry my writing is bad , I cant be PERFECT like you four skins was I drinking ? maybe ,maybe not , is it agianst the law to drink ???????
 
Gofirstclass said:
AKBassking, I watched that as it worked its way through the courts. It's interesting to note the differences between how the arrested guy was portrayed in the beginning and how he was later correctly identified as having been through the court system many times prior. I haven't seen an outcome on this case yet, has it been settled?
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This is a new case. You are thinking of the Wilde case in which the old guy was pulled over for a safety inspection by NPS cops. Both sides did a bad job there.

This is a new case in which this gentleman was in the Yukon-Charlie NP on a navigable waterway with his hoovercraft moose hunting. NPS cops asked him to leave. He is now suing based on the fact that the river is navigable and under State jurisdiction and not the NPS. This has been a battle in Alaska since Carter created a bunch more NPs in Alaska.
 
fasttoys7619 said:
were on a chain of Lakes , two countys ,patroled by county and DNR , for a few years ,the state had grant money and had the CG out here too, we are a land locked chain of lakes consisting of 14 lakes and rouphly 35 miles of river, one county Patrol is not bad , the other county patrol will stop you for anything, im not exagerating , I really thinking of slipping on the big pond this year, you could be anchored anywhere and the LE will pull up alongside you and demand a safety check , thats when i get mad , I have CG safety stickers on my boat , i tell the Officer my vessel fully complys with the USCG safety regulations , and show them my paper work and the sticker , he doesnt care he wants a safety check anyway and asks if i have been drinking , Mind you we are anchored for the day and night , I believe I can drink if were not under way , I showed him jackets and fire extinguisher , he now wants to see batteries , I say well i have to remove carpet, chairs and coolers , if you put them back fine , The LE gets abit frustrated, I ask what did i do wrong Im out here with my G/f and her 4 year old son ,and you can plainly see he has his bright yellow life jacket on !!! , the officer wants to go In my cabin and boarded my boat , thats when the fun started , ,,,,,,, I yelled officer ! please remove yourself from my HOME , this is my home you do not have a warrant , remove yourself from this vessel , we got into it abit , I imediately got my attorny on the line , handed the phone to the officer after he laughed at me , not believeing I truly had me attorney on line , once the convo ended , the officer got off my boat , and Ive never been hassled by him agian , now if only the others would leave me alone ,,,, NOW let me tell you ,I am American and deserve my rights as an American ! my boat is my home in the summer /weekends , what is in the cabin is my private stuff , and thats my right !!!!! I have nothing to hide , but dont want a cop riffling thru our underwear/clothes and other stuff , I can see if I am doing something wrong , yes i deserve to get hassled abit , but when we are doing absolutely nothing !! DO NOT BOARD MY HOME
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Just a tip, trying to be helpful...DO NOT hide the doobies in the sock drawer...even my mother could find them there.
 
gregkjones said:
OK I reflected.....I'm going with Ben.

Should we give up our rights to bear arms? The government believes we, the people, would be safer without them so it must be true right? The last thing the government wants is its citizens armed to the teeth. If the government is so innocent and looking out for us, the poeple, why would that be?

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
Ben Franklin

To me, this still seems to apply today. Hard to contest the vote in Russia and Iran holding sticks and rocks.
Click to expand...
That's not how they think in WI, we'll all be packin' shortly. I used to worry if my colors matched and now I have to decide which gun to wear too.:wow:
 
Please forgive, I'm late to the party and this may have been covered, but the issue of warrantless searches on boats is NOT quite so Draconian as to say that any officer can search anything at any time they simply choose. I pulled this from some quick research (and posted on a previous thread on this subject).

19 U.S.C. Sec. 1581(a)*, admittedly the sole basis for denial of defendants' motion to suppress, does not vitiate the basic protection from unreasonable government intrusions provided by the fourth amendment. That statute, while literally broad enough to support any vessel search, may sweep only as widely as the fourth amendment permits. All searches must conform to the fundamental constitutional test of reasonableness.


*"Any officer of the customs may at any time go on board of any vessel or vehicle at any place in the United States or within the customs waters . . . and examine the manifest and other documents and papers and examine, inspect, and search the vessel or vehicle and every part thereof and any person, trunk, package, or cargo on board, and to this end may hail and stop such vessel or vehicle, and use all necessary force to impel compliance."

Every other interaction must conform to the laws applicable to automobile searches, including such things as exigency, safety, emergency and probable cause. If it does not conform, the fruits of the search cannot be used as evidence and in certain circumstances, the government agency can be liable for any incurred damages. You may still spend time in jail for your objections.
 
Gofirstclass said:
Yup. The key words are "without legal permission". There are huge differences between those three words and another three words..."without lawful authority". Wayne, all your bravado notwithstanding, if cops are acting with what they feel is lawful authority, they do not need your permission to board your boat. If there is a question about whether or not they were acting with lawful authority, that will be up to the courts to decide, it is not up to you to decide at the time. So, while the cops are on the dock and about to board your boat, and you stand there puffing out your chest and acting real brave (and stupid, I might add) trying to prevent them from doing so, you likely will find yourself arrested, spread eagled on the dock, then handcuffed and stuffed into their patrol car while they board your boat.

So, with all your huffing and puffing, what have you gained? The cops still boarded your boat, looked for whatever they were looking for, and you ended up with your ass in the slammer. A lot of good your huffing and puffing did for you, right?

AKBassking, I watched that as it worked its way through the courts. It's interesting to note the differences between how the arrested guy was portrayed in the beginning and how he was later correctly identified as having been through the court system many times prior. I haven't seen an outcome on this case yet, has it been settled?

Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of getting my boat searched any more than any of you. I happen to know a few things about searches and seizures and know what questions to ask of any cops that want to board my boat. If the questions are answered correctly I'll let them board without any problems. If the questions are not answered to my satisfaction, I'll still let them board and we'll settle the matter later.

The difference between my low key approach and Wayne's huffing and puffing is that at the end of the cops contact with me I'll still be able to go boating and he'll be put into a not-so-comfortable jail cell. Acts of bravado don't go very far in impressing cops. They've seen that game before and they always win.
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I don't know about the legality of searching my boat, but I do know about cops. My father was a policeman and three of my four brothers are/were policemen (my oldest brother retired to become head of security for a very wealth individual who is now a candidate for president). The one thing I know from experience and from talking to my brothers and listening to their stories is "don't be a hard ass" with law enforcement. It instantly changes your status in their eyes. You go from being a suspect to a threat and they are taught to neutralize a threat for their own safety. I know that sometimes it seems like too much and they are too quick to use force but personally I have no problem with it because I know that is what helps bring my brothers home to their families every night.
 
my advise
sink the guns and drugs
splash the hookers

and invite them on board for a beer :wink:
 
Pack66Dad said:
I don't know about the legality of searching my boat, but I do know about cops. My father was a policeman and three of my four brothers are/were policemen (my oldest brother retired to become head of security for a very wealth individual who is now a candidate for president). The one thing I know from experience and from talking to my brothers and listening to their stories is "don't be a hard ass" with law enforcement. It instantly changes your status in their eyes. You go from being a suspect to a threat and they are taught to neutralize a threat for their own safety. I know that sometimes it seems like too much and they are too quick to use force but personally I have no problem with it because I know that is what helps bring my brothers home to their families every night.
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I cant agree with you more , being a hard ass does not get you far with a officer of the law , we do not have local city enforcent on our waters , only the county sherriffs and DNR, but I have to say a few of county Sherriffs step over there boundries and frankly I get tired of it , treat me like a human being when i get pulled over , not some piece of low life trash from the gheto , I am a upstanding citizen I work close with the local towns PD , friends with many land PO , but these water cops ,most of the time think they are above the law and will do what ever it takes to get you ! there are so many instances i could tell you about these Sheriffs , dont get me wrong most of them are great guys , but a few bad apples , the DNR and coasties are very nice
 
Gosh, at the risk of thread-jacking, Pack identified one of my pet peeves as a judge. I constantly heard pseudo-justifications for blatant violations of the constitutional rights of individuals based on the alleged safety issue for police officers. While I support and appreciate their collective service, the fact is that the profession is barely statistically in the top ten of dangerous professions (a little better than roofers and a little worse than garbage collectors) and that the overwhelming majority of fatalities are individually responsible motor vehicle accidents. The fact is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Limiting the power of the state is, and has been, a worthy ambition of free men for centuries now. The difference now is that the force of governance is being marketed as the best protection from overwhelmingly manufactured threats (see, eg "protection rackets, organized crime"). As a country, we incarcerate more people, and for longer, than any country on earth (by a factor of a BUNCH) and more police with more power isn't the solution. My $.02

Pack66Dad said:
It instantly changes your status in their eyes. You go from being a suspect to a threat and they are taught to neutralize a threat for their own safety. I know that sometimes it seems like too much and they are too quick to use force but personally I have no problem with it because I know that is what helps bring my brothers home to their families every night.
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JediJD said:
Gosh, at the risk of thread-jacking, Pack identified one of my pet peeves as a judge. I constantly heard pseudo-justifications for blatant violations of the constitutional rights of individuals based on the alleged safety issue for police officers. While I support and appreciate their collective service, the fact is that the profession is barely statistically in the top ten of dangerous professions (a little better than roofers and a little worse than garbage collectors) and that the overwhelming majority of fatalities are individually responsible motor vehicle accidents. The fact is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Limiting the power of the state is, and has been, a worthy ambition of free men for centuries now. The difference now is that the force of governance is being marketed as the best protection from overwhelmingly manufactured threats (see, eg "protection rackets, organized crime"). As a country, we incarcerate more people, and for longer, than any country on earth (by a factor of a BUNCH) and more police with more power isn't the solution. My $.02
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:thumbsup:
 
JediJD said:
Gosh, at the risk of thread-jacking, Pack identified one of my pet peeves as a judge. I constantly heard pseudo-justifications for blatant violations of the constitutional rights of individuals based on the alleged safety issue for police officers. While I support and appreciate their collective service, the fact is that the profession is barely statistically in the top ten of dangerous professions (a little better than roofers and a little worse than garbage collectors) and that the overwhelming majority of fatalities are individually responsible motor vehicle accidents. The fact is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Limiting the power of the state is, and has been, a worthy ambition of free men for centuries now. The difference now is that the force of governance is being marketed as the best protection from overwhelmingly manufactured threats (see, eg "protection rackets, organized crime"). As a country, we incarcerate more people, and for longer, than any country on earth (by a factor of a BUNCH) and more police with more power isn't the solution. My $.02
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:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
JediJD said:
Gosh, at the risk of thread-jacking, Pack identified one of my pet peeves as a judge. I constantly heard pseudo-justifications for blatant violations of the constitutional rights of individuals based on the alleged safety issue for police officers. While I support and appreciate their collective service, the fact is that the profession is barely statistically in the top ten of dangerous professions (a little better than roofers and a little worse than garbage collectors) and that the overwhelming majority of fatalities are individually responsible motor vehicle accidents. The fact is that "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". Limiting the power of the state is, and has been, a worthy ambition of free men for centuries now. The difference now is that the force of governance is being marketed as the best protection from overwhelmingly manufactured threats (see, eg "protection rackets, organized crime"). As a country, we incarcerate more people, and for longer, than any country on earth (by a factor of a BUNCH) and more police with more power isn't the solution. My $.02
Click to expand...
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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