What happened to Sea Ray

[Bucit]

Affordability. The average middle class family cannot afford a L650 or even a used 550-DB. Sea ray may make a good boat, but they are overpriced for the average middle class American and even if they could afford it, banks aren't loaning much..

I'd say I'm deifinately middle class (if that still exists) but no way in hell I could afford a used 550DB. Probably not even a 420DB. Did you smoke your breakfast? Boats that costs $100k+ aren't really made for the "middle class" unless your idea of middle class differs from mine?

 

[CV-23]

Bells and whistles are not cheap. Just the cost of Mercury products alone have skyrocketed! I'll stick to my 1990 that's paid for and can be trailered to different waters when I want. Just the cost to haul out a non-trailered boat and storage would break me. I figure a 34ft boat would cost me about $10,000 a year more for bigger water and slip fees. Every time I want a bigger boat I wax the one I have and say......no more! Also like the fact that my 270 is like a 30ft boat by today's standards anyways, Mike.

 

[AKBASSKING]

I'd say I'm deifinately middle class (if that still exists) but no way in hell I could afford a used 550DB. Probably not even a 420DB. Did you smoke your breakfast? Boats that costs $100k+ aren't really made for the "middle class" unless your idea of middle class differs from mine?

Well you make my point for me. Most folks like CV-23 are keeping the boats they have becuase of affordability. I had canned peaches and coffee for breakfast....

 

[Bucit]

Look at the fit and finish on the new Regals.

 

[AKBASSKING]

Nice. I wonder if I could borrow her for my bow babe? Nope, the Admiral says it would be too expensive for me.....Yes Admiral....

 

[MonacoMike]

This thread is looking up...

MM

 

[JamesT]

Not to change the subject entirely, but speaking of "they don't make 'em like they used to...." I renovated my kitchen 5 years ago and got all new appliances. My refrigerator in particular bit the dust in several ways. Water leak in door due to frozen water line due to insufficient insulation caused the mother board to fry when we defrosted the fridge. Fridge repair man can fix by replacing the entire door and mother board for $700 total, but then told me the average useful life of any refrigerator is 8 years!!! It used to be that fridges never died, now they're essentially made to fail in less than a decade and they whole industry is part of it. In other words, when I asked the repair man which is the most reliable fridge in his opinion, he said "an old one!!" All the new ones no matter who manufactures will all fail within 10 years. Maybe this is strategy, not cost cutting? Build them to look great in the showroom, but after a few years make you want to get rid of them, and the new sales machine keeps cranking? Maybe the boating industry is using that same strategy?

BTW, I need a new fridge if you haven't gathered. Anyone dare to recommend one?

 

[kaz911]

Not to change the subject entirely, but speaking of "they don't make 'em like they used to...." I renovated my kitchen 5 years ago and got all new appliances. My refrigerator in particular bit the dust in several ways. Water leak in door due to frozen water line due to insufficient insulation caused the mother board to fry when we defrosted the fridge. Fridge repair man can fix by replacing the entire door and mother board for $700 total, but then told me the average useful life of any refrigerator is 8 years!!! It used to be that fridges never died, now they're essentially made to fail in less than a decade and they whole industry is part of it. In other words, when I asked the repair man which is the most reliable fridge in his opinion, he said "an old one!!" All the new ones no matter who manufactures will all fail within 10 years. Maybe this is strategy, not cost cutting? Build them to look great in the showroom, but after a few years make you want to get rid of them, and the new sales machine keeps cranking? Maybe the boating industry is using that same strategy?

BTW, I need a new fridge if you haven't gathered. Anyone dare to recommend one?

Yes - disregard all the ones made in Asia - I have always used Bosch/Siemens - their stuff works great - IF it is NOT the ones they have outsourced production to an Asia. We have two fridges here - one made in Germany and one made in "Asia" for the local market. The made in Asia has already cost about $500 in repairs while our same age German import have no issues and runs as good as the day we got it.

 

[Newman]

Not to change the subject entirely, but speaking of "they don't make 'em like they used to...." I renovated my kitchen 5 years ago and got all new appliances. My refrigerator in particular bit the dust in several ways. Water leak in door due to frozen water line due to insufficient insulation caused the mother board to fry when we defrosted the fridge. Fridge repair man can fix by replacing the entire door and mother board for $700 total, but then told me the average useful life of any refrigerator is 8 years!!! It used to be that fridges never died, now they're essentially made to fail in less than a decade and they whole industry is part of it. In other words, when I asked the repair man which is the most reliable fridge in his opinion, he said "an old one!!" All the new ones no matter who manufactures will all fail within 10 years. Maybe this is strategy, not cost cutting? Build them to look great in the showroom, but after a few years make you want to get rid of them, and the new sales machine keeps cranking? Maybe the boating industry is using that same strategy?

BTW, I need a new fridge if you haven't gathered. Anyone dare to recommend one?

Well in that case I have '50s era GE fridge in my barn that I'll sell ya. It worked a couple years ago when I plugged it in for the hell of it.

 

[jobofly]

A boat was an expensive, but attainable lifestyle that middle class Americans bought when they had job security and income growth, controlled expenses, access to financing, and leisure time. When you are in the business of volume manufacturing boats that costs more to make today than it did 5 or 10 years ago and selling it to a shrinking middle class that still has job security, income growth to keep up with increased living expenses and taxes, and still has enough leisure time to enjoy the lifestyle, but not the access to financing they once had, you need to change your strategy. Those things that a boat builder can change are the costs to manufacture by using less expensive materials and methods, and your target market. Manufacturing a sport boat or sport cruiser with less expense makes it a little closer to attain by a buyer without the same previous access to financing, but does not save the company, because there are simply fewer of these customers. So, you shift your product development and marketing to a different, albeit smaller, demographic altogether, the wealthy.

We are talking about boats, here. This is the sad reality. We have a government that has encouraged dependency and redistribution of wealth and has implemented those policies against popular support. That expense has been passed onto the middle class working American, the previous average boat buyer. Now, they don't buy boats or can't afford to buy the boat that they once could.

if that is the case then how is it that the middle class is going away?

 

[Woody]

The reality is that many should have never gotten into boats to start with...the foolish idea that if I can swing the monthly payment 'I can afford it' has bitten many in the butt. If nothing else, I hope some people make it through this sh!tty stretch having learned they need to do things differently with a new set of priorities.

 

[WDCboater]

Lets compare boats and numbers.

I pulled these numbers from BoatTrader.com
I found a dealer near me selling a Regal 3200 Bowrider (Sundeck equivalent) for $160k. Obviously won't leave the lot for that price. I found a 300 Sundeck (as big as they go) for $120k. Both with Mercury engines. I didn't see the specs on the Regal's engine. The Sundeck is a 350 Mag.

Regal 32 Express Cruiser has a base price of $230k. (Source: BoatTest.com)
310 Sundancer has a base price of $210k (Source: SeaRay.com)
330 Sundancer has a base price of $265k (Source: SeaRay.com)

Carver 34 has a base price of $331k (Source: BoatTest.com)
350 Surnancer has a base price of $353k (Source: SeaRay.com)

I think if you look at boats from various US manufacturers they are priced pretty much the same. Everyone uses either Volvo or Mercury engines. I've been at the Ft. Lauderdale Boat Show the past four years and I always tour comparable boats to see what everyone's doing.

Many manufacturers will leave exposed fiberglass in the cabin or headliners. SeaRay doesn't. (Exception is the head) Is SeaRay the best? No. Definitely not. Look at the boats from Fairline and Azimut (which both makes boats under 40').

The way I looked at my 350 purchase was vacation condo or boat. For those looking to get into a reasonably priced bow rider, deals are out there at boat shows.

A 205 Sport goes out the door for the price of a mid-tier sedan. A 220 Sundeck goes out the door for around the price of a luxury sedan. Just look at the price of cars. A Chevy Tahoe costs nearly $50k! A new Honda Accord $35k. That car was $22k when I looked at it 10 years ago.

 

[WDCboater]

Well, let's see. In the past ten years, my salary has been about the same, as has my wife's. During that time virtually everything else has doubled or tripled or even quadrupled in price. Fuel, electricity, FOOD, the price of a new car, boats, heck, even a quarter pounder at McD's has doubled over the last decade. Look at taxes, have they gone down? College? Day care? Nursing homes? Health care? Insurance? Directv/cable? Phones plans?

My 401k is virtually the same as it was ten years ago, and like I said, our income is roughly the same as it was ten years ago....so there is where the middle class is going.....it is moving towards lower class. Seems like for every dollar we bring in, someone wants all of it, plus. Save for retirement? HAHAHAHAHAAHAAHA!!!

As an end result, I can see why Sea Ray is focusing on the super wealthy, because there is not many of us that don't already have boats that could afford to get into to it now. I can honestly say that I would not be able to afford the boat I own now, if these same conditions existed when I bought it. In fact, the boat is sinking us financially now, but due to the market collapse, there is no possible way of getting rid of it short of walking away.

I totally agree on the cost of living. Also, I've worked for employers who feel a 3% annual raise is "generous," many of whom can afford those big expensive SeaRay boats. It's one of the reasons I went into business for myself and vowed never to treat my employees that way.

SeaRay still makes boats at a wide range of price points, it's just the cost of entry has gone up.

 

[JV II]

[video=youtube;nlvqqNG4hr8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlvqqNG4hr8[/video]

 

[dpmulvey]

Not to change the subject entirely, but speaking of "they don't make 'em like they used to...." I renovated my kitchen 5 years ago and got all new appliances. My refrigerator in particular bit the dust in several ways. Water leak in door due to frozen water line due to insufficient insulation caused the mother board to fry when we defrosted the fridge. Fridge repair man can fix by replacing the entire door and mother board for $700 total, but then told me the average useful life of any refrigerator is 8 years!!! It used to be that fridges never died, now they're essentially made to fail in less than a decade and they whole industry is part of it. In other words, when I asked the repair man which is the most reliable fridge in his opinion, he said "an old one!!" All the new ones no matter who manufactures will all fail within 10 years. Maybe this is strategy, not cost cutting? Build them to look great in the showroom, but after a few years make you want to get rid of them, and the new sales machine keeps cranking? Maybe the boating industry is using that same strategy?

BTW, I need a new fridge if you haven't gathered. Anyone dare to recommend one?

Lot of truth to that....plus more. My girlfriend's townhouse is 5 years old. In the last 6 months, $3000+ fridge (samsung...stay away) fixed but took a month+. The techs could only do what the oversized iPhone and tech support told them to do.... then wait to see if that was the problem. The techs were back 5 times to fix the thing. $1600 Washer (samsung front loader...stay away) shot. She had extended warranties on both that covered parts but not labor. The washer displayed a fault code that was such a disaster the warranty company literally totalled the washer and sent her a check. We replaced that with a Speed Queen. The Appliance Place (which is actually the name of the appliance place) ceased carrying Samsung because of what I described as well as parts availability. They cannot keep the Speed Queens in stock. Rinnai tankless water heater...shot. Still under warranty but cost close to $400 in labor to fix. No hot water for a week plus. HVAC (Carrier) capacitor blew up. $300 and change to fix and no A/C for a week plus. So in 6 months we are upwards of $3K in unexpected repairs on durable goods. They are built to break. The money is not in the sale of the good, it's in parts and repair.

As to the fridge, get the cheapest no frills one that suits the needs. Sub Zero and Wolf are not all they are cracked up to be...That's from a guy who sells them!

As to the OP. SR is an above average boat but by no means a Formula or a Bertram. I agree the newer ones seem to be of less quality than the older ones and it appears they are cutting corners. They are a brand in a HUGE conglomorate and are in business to make money. No more. No less. They are going to produce to focus where the money is.....China and the Middle East. It is what it is.

 

[WDCboater]

As to the OP. SR is an above average boat but by no means a Formula or a Bertram. I agree the newer ones seem to be of less quality than the older ones and it appears they are cutting corners. They are a brand in a HUGE conglomorate and are in business to make money. No more. No less. They are going to produce to focus where the money is.....China and the Middle East. It is what it is.

Not true for SeaRay. Brunswick's biggest foreign markets are Canada, Europe and Latin America (Brazil). That made up 35% of their Q1 boat sales. Mideast and Africa was 1% and Asia was 3%.
Source: http://brunswick.com/investors/

 

[1990-270-da-lover]

Bells and whistles are not cheap. Just the cost of Mercury products alone have skyrocketed! I'll stick to my 1990 that's paid for and can be trailered to different waters when I want. Just the cost to haul out a non-trailered boat and storage would break me. I figure a 34ft boat would cost me about $10,000 a year more for bigger water and slip fees. Every time I want a bigger boat I wax the one I have and say......no more! Also like the fact that my 270 is like a 30ft boat by today's standards anyways, Mike.

+1 with what Mike said. I also have a 90 270 DA which I think is a well built boat all in all. Like all boats they need maintenence and things replaced from time to time, but I find if you keep up with it it doesn't become overwhelming. That said, a cheaper boat of even a newer vintage may not have the dealer and parts support that a company like Sea Ray would have. I am amazed at what is still readily available for the 1990 model Sea Ray, just like the difference in the availability of parts for say a vintage corvette (own a 94 C4) and a chevrolet cavalier I would rather own an older Sea Ray than an older Bayliner.

 

[Tonka Boater]

I'd say I'm deifinately middle class (if that still exists) but no way in hell I could afford a used 550DB. Probably not even a 420DB. Did you smoke your breakfast? Boats that costs $100k+ aren't really made for the "middle class" unless your idea of middle class differs from mine?

There are a lot of middle class people up here that own a home plus a nice little cabin on a lake. You can get cabins for well under $200k but I also know many middle class people who opted for a used cruiser for a $100+k instead of a cabin. They think of the boat as their cabin on the water.

Generally speaking I would agree that most middle-class people cannot afford the $100k boat. But that's not always the case.

 

[CV-23]

Well, let's see. In the past ten years, my salary has been about the same, as has my wife's. During that time virtually everything else has doubled or tripled or even quadrupled in price. Fuel, electricity, FOOD, the price of a new car, boats, heck, even a quarter pounder at McD's has doubled over the last decade. Look at taxes, have they gone down? College? Day care? Nursing homes? Health care? Insurance? Directv/cable? Phones plans?

My 401k is virtually the same as it was ten years ago, and like I said, our income is roughly the same as it was ten years ago....so there is where the middle class is going.....it is moving towards lower class. Seems like for every dollar we bring in, someone wants all of it, plus. Save for retirement? HAHAHAHAHAAHAAHA!!!

As an end result, I can see why Sea Ray is focusing on the super wealthy, because there is not many of us that don't already have boats that could afford to get into to it now. I can honestly say that I would not be able to afford the boat I own now, if these same conditions existed when I bought it. In fact, the boat is sinking us financially now, but due to the market collapse, there is no possible way of getting rid of it short of walking away.

I have to agree with Scott 100%. Ever since interest rates have dropped on investments due to big Govt loaning our tax dollars at 0% to Banks were are all screwed. Why should they give us interest in CD's etc when our tax dollars are free. Gooberment screws up everything they touch....that's a fact. I was better off when my mortgage was 7.5%! I could give you a Million Dollars and you could not live off the interest.....that's a huge problem. We have entered Socialism and most people are blind to it. Open your eye's folks! I'm debt free and own my own company and work another full time job for benefits. Good thing it's not hard work at all but 1/3 the salary I made for 25 years. Any yes it took my 401K 10 years to recover so that's 10 years of lost income also. I keep lots of cash on hand now in my safe and a .45ACP on my belt....ammo has been a great investment so far. It has doubled in the past Obozo years and plenty in stock, Mike.

 

[redneck joe]

The reality is that many should have never gotten into boats to start with...the foolish idea that if I can swing the monthly payment 'I can afford it' has bitten many in the butt. If nothing else, I hope some people make it through this sh!tty stretch having learned they need to do things differently with a new set of priorities.

the best post on this thread.




My income in the last 10 years has tripled just doing what I always have done, and I have bought cheaper and cheaper boats. Only debt is my house, am saving 40% of my money to retirement and still spend what I want. But what I want is a lot less than when I put everything on payments.


A new, sensible wife helped on that last part...