water under aft berth on 280DA

[smanier]

I picked our boat up last night from the dealer from having the 100 hour service done. We took the boat over to Pouslbo for the weekend. Settled in for the night about midnight, crawled into what I would hope a very comfortable bed. At the foot of the bed, everything was wet. We discovered water was under the mattress the entire beam of the boat.

I called a salesman this morning and he suspects rainwater leaking from either the radar arch or the windshield. It would be fixed under warranty but I wonder how something like this would happen, the amount of money that these boats cost, you would think they would do a better job finishing simple items like sealing holes.

Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

 

[JV II]

How did you go 100 hours without any water leaking in? It seems too coincidental that it happened when the dealer had it. How can that be? It must have rained during the 100 hours you had it. Did it rain when the dealer had it? When it was hauled, was it washed?

 

[Dave S]

Scott

I suggest you PM 280 SeaRay http://clubsearay.com/forum/member.php?u=518

He had similar water leaks on his 280DA that also resulted in a wet mid cabin and had to seal several different things to fix them. For instance, the thru bolts that hold the port side seat to the cockpit are not sealed. Therefore if it rains or you hose your cockpit down, water will seep down the back of those seats and thru the bolt holes into the mid cabin. But I also know Jeremy identified several other areas that he fixed as well.

Dave

 

[Ididntdoit]

When I had my 280 I had the exact same problem...Traced it to the portlight over the panel, when I dropped the panel down (remove screws at top - its hinged) the area (foam backed hull covering) was saturated- tightened the "locks", lubricated the seal, and the problem disappeared - I was lucky - dozens of places the water can come in from

 

[smanier]

I thought the exact same thing, we have had this boat out for several days through straight rain, I wash the boat constantly (seems like it). Then it sits at the dealer for a week and it leaks.

The only good news is that it is under warranty and the service dept at the Lake union Sea Ray seems to be good folks. Hopefully, they will find the source of the problem.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Woody]

I had a wet aft berth also. I my case the source was windshield base screws. None were caulked and one screw was not installed leaving an open hole. Why yours leaks now after 100 hours and a trip for service is strange.

 

[JV II]

I'd be a little nervous having the dealer tear it apart to find a leak that might not come back. They may create a problem by looking for a problem. I'd dry it out real good, use it for another 100 hours and see if it leaks first. What if they power washed it and blew some water under a seal? That's just one of an infinite number of possibilities. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Good luck and let us know what happened.

 

[280 SeaRay]

Ah yes the mid-cabin leaks... they were fun. I am glad I saw this thread. Let me start by saying I am the type of guy who hoses out the cockpit, scrubs everything with numerous rinses and a final rinse. You should read this as LOTS OF WATER. If there is a leak this method of washing will find it.... and I found plenty.

Port Side

Leak #1 - Water leaking in behind the port lounger cushions (permanently bolted vertically to the boat back cushions) and into the holes drilled (too big and no sealant) to accept the threaded studs from the cushions. The holes are simply drilled through the fiberglass and the cushions bolted in water easily gets past. You will notice water leaking into the mid-cabin cabinet and then will follow little recess along aft wall. To resolve this you have to take the "ceiling" pieces out of the mid-cabin cabinet, amp, and doors off then reach up unbolt the threaded studs. I then used a 2 inch round hallow rubber half circle filled with sealant (3M 4200) and pressed the sealant through the backside until my helper saw sealant come through on cockpit side. Working on a cool day I did all of them and tightened the nuts back down. Completely resolved the leak in this area. Tests were done with helper in cockpit with hose.... and me with my arm up in the area above feeling for water. The area is very small and you have to fly by touch as you cannot see and get your arm up in there... unless you are double jointed Here are some pictures after fix.

It makes a little mess on the backside but that area is never seen by anyone. There is no indication of anything on the cockpit side. Then just put everything back together.

Leak #2 - The little cushion permanently bolted to the corner of the port lounger area (low). Same story as the port lounger cushions. Holes drilled a little big and no sealant. An additional leak here caused by what looks like a self taping screw which was removed after being screwed in. I unbolted and removed this cushion and sealed from inside and outside. Tests revealed leak dripped in onto the excess ceiling material tucked under this beauty panel (on inside to right of window). The vinyl is foam backed allowing for water to move behind the vinyl. It follow the excess ceiling material to the aft wall and then behind that vinyl down to the floor. Pitures are pre-fix.

Leak #3 - The Captains chair pedestal is bolted through the fiberglass and again no sealant used. Remove Captains chair from pedestal and unbolt pedestal. Use Sealant to bed pedestal bolt pedestal back down and replace chair. Test indicated that water was again following ceiling vinyl to aft wall then down behind aft wall vinyl to base/floor of aft wall. Sorry no pix of these bolts. You can gain access to these bolts via odd shaped ceiling panel. See upper right of picture below.

Leak #4 - Forward EIM hatch

This is the leak area that you are most likely getting the water from. While all of the leaks above will get water into the area you indicate this one will deposit water directly behind the wall at the foot of the mid-cabin. It will soak the foot of the mid-cabin especially near aft wall where it pools. I found 3 problems with the hatch. 1. The hatch itself is not water tight. 2. The sealant used on the hatch frame was very poor and allowed water to get to 3. The raw edge of the cut out which was not sealed properly either allowing water to get down into the material. I removed the hatch screws and it just fell out... had it been properly sealed it would not have moved. The raw edge of the cut out also was not sealed and should have been. Once water makes it past the hatch it will leak. The box that holds the EIM is a simple box stapled together and attached with aluminum L brackets... not sealed.

Water leaking between EIM box and fiberglass during test.

To test this I removed the wall at the foot of the bed. I discovered the "subwoofer" wire is installed and just left hanging even if you do not opt for the upgraded stereo pkg.

You can see the poor seal job of the raw edge of cut out with hatch and frame removed.

I went ahead and sealed the electrical outlet box and cockpit light while I was there... I used a much more waterproof electrical cover than from the factory. I bought a new hatch frame and door as I could as the one from the factory did not seal right against rubber seal in the frame.... the replacement one does not either... although it is better. I am looking into moving this EIM hatch from the cockpit altogether. Possibly into a little hatch in mid-cabin wall or something. The seal does ok.... but under direct hose water will leak. I sealed the raw edge of the cutout with 3M 5200 using a putty knife to force the product into any cracks. I left a thin film on top and it worked very well. Using 3M 4000 UV sealant I sealed the frame to the fiberglass and use the proper amount of sealnt on the screws.


There is a potential for the windshield screws to be leaking. I found the windshield screws to be properly bedded in sealant. We experienced a defective windshield from the factory. Upon replacement we did have some leaks on the port side. This was only due to the dealership failing to use sealant when replacing the windshield. I took it back to them and stood over the project. When they pulled the port windshield off (the one replaced) there was no sealant used whatsoever.... but the old stuff had been cleaned off. Once properly bedded no leaks.

I do not think there is much chance the arch would be leaking into the midcabin. The arch is well aft of the mid cabin and the water would have to find its way through the sealed aft wall of the mid-cabin. That wall is sealed solid... all wires and such are completed sealed as they go through the wall with tons of sealnt. This is likely a requirement to separate the air in the engine compartment from the air in the cabin.


I hope this helps. I can go into much greater detail if required. I was indeed a little surprised at the number of potential leaks areas that are not sealed. Surprised and disappointed really. They build a very nice boat but need help on sealing things and their visible caulking practices.

 

[Henry Boyd]

Jeremy,

Excellent report. Just a couple questions and an observation. One how is the interior 'upholstery' secured to the starboard wall?

Is the base of the helm chair a flange with threaded holes, or a series of nuts?

Back to the original post and related to the mysterious water collection under the trash can. We have noted water in the cabin after our 280 has been out of the water and is on stands in the yard. This might explain water after a servicing (if the boat was hauled for the service).

Henry

 

[Dave S]

Awhile back I had to deal with water leaks on my 260DA. It's all documented in this posting http://clubsearay.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5575&

The 260DA is very similar to the 280DA and if you experience wet carpet in the cabin or the shower sump area under the trash can, I can almost guarantee you the side windows are at fault. When I had my panels out last week to install my AC vent in the head, for the first time I could see exactly where the trail of water had flowed thru my leaking windows and then back toward the sump area. I should have taken a picture of it but at the time I didn't think to do it.

At any rate, don't forget to test those portal windows as well if you are chasing water leaks.

 

[280 SeaRay]

Jeremy,

Excellent report. Just a couple questions and an observation. One how is the interior 'upholstery' secured to the starboard wall?

Is the base of the helm chair a flange with threaded holes, or a series of nuts?

Back to the original post and related to the mysterious water collection under the trash can. We have noted water in the cabin after our 280 has been out of the water and is on stands in the yard. This might explain water after a servicing (if the boat was hauled for the service).

Henry

The upholstry seems to be adhered with spray adhesive and followed by stainless staples on the back side. The starboard wall base material is plywood.

The base of the helm chair is through bolted through the fiberglass. You will find the base in one side (cockpit) and a nut and washers on the other side of the fiberglass.

I do not have any issues with water under the trash can as others have noted.

 

[sbw1]

If you gob the 4200 all over the bolts that secure the seat backs and bottoms to the fiberglass, you make it much more difficult for the person who removes them to redo the seats. Pay attention to neatness if you plan on owning the boat for awhile.

 

[280 SeaRay]

If you gob the 4200 all over the bolts that secure the seat backs and bottoms to the fiberglass, you make it much more difficult for the person who removes them to redo the seats. Pay attention to neatness if you plan on owning the boat for awhile.

So easily said without understanding the area this is in

Please understand this area is only 6-7 inches wide and above a built in cabinet. You physically have to place yourself sideways (back against the inside of hull) and reach through with your arm until you reach your shoulder as your shoulder will not fit. Your head will not fit either. When fixing this you are forced to work blind as I indicated in a previous post. Your eyes are only your fingers and touch. I discussed the fix with a SR Factory tech that came out to my boat at length. He acknowledged how tight it would be in there... as they bolt in these cushions before the top of boat is attached to the hull. This could have been done much easier could you actually remove the bolsters completely.

Here are pix from the user (cockpit) side of things taken after the fix. As you can see there is no indication whatsoever of any type of leaks fix.

The reason I could not simply remove the entire piece which would have been preferred is the portion through bolted in the area of the SeaRay stitching in the first picture cannot be reached without removing a panel that is permanently glued in (this is the panel with main light switch just inside cabin door on port side for you 280 owners and those familiar). The SeaRay tech indicated that I would likely have to replace this and ajoining interior pieces due to the heavy use of adhesive. I chose not to go down this route as there is no leaking in that area. I cannot stand the fact that this area is inaccessible without demo. Something I will likely resolve in the future.

I am the last person to make a mess on my boat (haven't you seen my other posts ) or apply poor workmanship. Here is a picture of what I would consider a glob. The clear silicon is what was done when the dealership attempted to fix this. The attempted to seal only one by placing a handful of clear sealant over the nut and threaded stud. It took me 5.5 hours to remove all this and do a better job.

I did indeed back off each and ever nut after the 4200 (not 5200) had cured. I did not have any problems. There is some sealant on the exterior of the nuts and a little on the thread as there was sealant on my one hand during assembly. I would seal then tighten... then seal and tighten the next one. While it is not pretty to my standards it is also an area that no one will ever see. Heck I bet most 280DA owners have never been in this area.

Have you ever looked at the method the waste and other hoses, wires are sealed as they head through the bulkhead/wall between engine room and cabin... just drenched with excessive sealnt.... not pretty, not ever seen by 99% of all boat owners, and seems to be effective.

 

[smanier]

the source of the leak turned out to the the overboard drains that are starboard midships. The water was leaking into the boat while underway......what a comforting thought.

 

[breakitout]

I am getting a wet aft cabin, it is coming in from the underside where the sliding door sits. I have re-sealed all visible screws in the door track and helm base, tested with water and no leak. It only leaks during rain or a good wash.. with the front windows out. So it appears that it is something in the helm area or interior. I recaulked the side windshield interior beside the helm, it still happens. It is leaking our of the inside of the fiberglass. visible when the panel covering the stair into the cabin is removed.. so its running down from somewhere else. Any ideas?