Water test of (almost ours) sea ray 260 DA, some questions

Theresamarie11

New Member
Aug 18, 2009
365
Vermont
Boat Info
2002 Sundancer 300
Engines
Twin 350 Mag, Westerbeke Genset
Thanks to all who previously commented and helped me make a choice on which 260DA to buy. So, with a huge amount of excitement we took the 2000 7.4L 260 DA out on lake champlain with the broker today. The survey is next week. We have a deposit on it but it's not quite ours yet, and is dependent on the results of this test and survey.

So here is what we found.

Everything seems to work but the windshield wipers. So we're having this checked out.
The bennet 'auto tab' is very cool as is the bow thruster. While it doesn't seem that it's going to be normally difficult to dock, I'm sure the thruster will come in handy at times, espcially if we get one of the slips that seems very tight to back into.

Motor sounds good and runs smooth when up to speed. Oil is almost clear it's so clean. Motor has 200 hours. It seems to get up on plane pretty quickly at WOT but we only had 600 lbs of passengers and 1/2 tank of fuel. We were also getting between 2 and 2.4 MPG depending on speed and trim. It was doing around 34 MPH at 16G/hr and 26 MPH at 10.9 G/Hour. The standard horizon GPS also has a fuel flow gauge.

I was also pretty amazed that we could run down to 14mph, on plane, and not have the speed rise/fall like our current boat. Our current boat goes 14mph, or 20mph, and in between is no mans land.. in this place you have to constantly adjust the throttle up/down to maintain speed as the boat either wants to speed up, or slow down.

A few things that bothered us, and if anyone can comment or shed some light on them, we'd appreciate it greatly.

1) The boat shudders a bit when accelerating. Not sure how normal this is or if it's a symptom of other drive train issues. My hubby could feel it if either he or I was driving. I noticed it mostly when I was driving.

2) The top end we could hit, with a good chop (<1ft) was only 38.6 on the GPS when the owner said he could hit 45mph. We could also only get it to a hair under 4000 RPM unless we over-trimmed and then RPM would go up but speed went down.
The prop is a 24 pitch bravo 3 prop, so not sure if this is good or not. I expected it would do better and am a bit dissapointed on this point. We're making sure the motor is gone over well. Is there anything that would cause lower performance? my experience with props on my current boat is that top end performance generally doesn't change much, just acceleration (i.e. larger pitch props are more sluggish from a stop and don't get highest WOT RMPs while smaller pitch hits high range in WOT RPM, gets out of hole faster, but doesn't really get any faster top end).

Any thoughts on these points guys, gals?

Thanks much,
Terri
 
One thing to look at is the Auto Trim. The intial trim setting that the boat constantly tries to adjust "back to" is set by the operator during "on plane" running of the boat. If this was not set properly (optimally) by the previous owner / installer then you won't be running the boat in its "sweet spot" Good news is that you can turn it off - get the boat to optimal running and then re-set.

I can get a slightly better top end on GPS than you are reporting in my 2001 260 DA with the smaller 5.7 EFI and a B3 outdrive with around that same passenger / fuel load.
 
elaborate on "the boat shudders"

Well, as best I can. When accelerating, especially from a stop, it seems that it vibrates/shudders, stonger when slower and first starting out, and as it gets up to speed vibration seems to disappear. I felt a similar shudder on a old sea ray I tried out 4 years ago when I was looking for my current (old soon) boat. This wasn't a sundancer, but some older cuddy cabin. It reminded me of the same thing.

I believe it must have something to do with the drive train, but don't know if it's an issue or not.
 
One thing to look at is the Auto Trim. The intial trim setting that the boat constantly tries to adjust "back to" is set by the operator during "on plane" running of the boat. If this was not set properly (optimally) by the previous owner / installer then you won't be running the boat in its "sweet spot" Good news is that you can turn it off - get the boat to optimal running and then re-set.

I can get a slightly better top end on GPS than you are reporting in my 2001 260 DA with the smaller 5.7 EFI and a B3 outdrive with around that same passenger / fuel load.

Hi Rabyers, do you mean the auto tabs? I assumed to get top speed the tabs would be totally retracted (up). Is this not true? I have no experience with tabs.

If I have to trim with both drive and tabs, then we didn't do that.


Terri
 
The boat should definitely run mid 40's. Were you running against the current (GPS is speed over ground)? Was it properly trimmed and tabs retracted? Does the boat have a clean bottom? Has it been stored in the water? Does it have bottom paint? What fuel flow did it show at WOT? What gears does the outdrive have?

It's hard to comment on the shudder without being on the boat to feel it firsthand.

Here's some things I would do if you have not already:

Compression check
Check engine ECM for codes
Drain and inpsect gear lube in outdrive (no sparkles, water, black or burnt smell)
Check the gimbal (Stand behind boat and try to move outdrive side to side). There should be no play.
Bottom (is it clean, smooth, true, and blister free?)
 
The boat should definitely run mid 40's. Were you running against the current (GPS is speed over ground)? Was it properly trimmed and tabs retracted? Does the boat have a clean bottom? Has it been stored in the water? Does it have bottom paint? What fuel flow did it show at WOT? What gears does the outdrive have?

It's hard to comment on the shudder without being on the boat to feel it firsthand.

Here's some things I would do if you have not already:

Compression check
Check engine ECM for codes
Drain and inpsect gear lube in outdrive (no sparkles, water, black or burnt smell)
Check the gimbal (Stand behind boat and try to move outdrive side to side). There should be no play.
Bottom (is it clean, smooth, true, and blister free?)

Keokie,

Thanks for the suggestions, we'll have them all checked.

The gimball joint seems pretty good, very little play. When you say 'no play' do you mean, like 1/4 inch or zero? My aplha has a bit, maybe 1/2 inch or less which seems fine. I had a boat before this which had huge amounts of play but think it was more steering (not power) than gimbals.

The drive is being pulled and checked, and aligned, so I'll make sure fluid is good/not burnt as well. Compressoin check is being done.

The bottom is epoxy coated, instead of paint so it looks and feels very smooth. There is damage to fiberglass anywhere. The bottom has this kind of brown spider webbing stuff that needs to be cleaned off. Boat dealer said it was some lake growth but it wouldn't seem it would slow the boat down 6 mph. Almost looks like some kind of plant was growing on it, but it's very fine and not thick at all. The boat sat for 1/2 year after it was taken out of the water and winterized at the end of last season. So this was it's first run after sitting.

I did put tabs all the way up, but in talking with the owner, who swears it'll do 45mph with 3 people aboar, he indicated that maybe I need some tabs down to get optimal performance. In any case, I will check everything else.

We didn't think of ECM codes, but a good idea. We'll have those read too.



Terri
 
Terri,

Yes, the auto tabs is what I was referring to. If they are on, then they will auto adjust to whatever the boats running aspect (relative to "level") was when last programmed - that may or may not be with the tabs all the way up. Reading the literature on how those auto tabs works could help provide a lot of insight on this.
 
Boat should run around 45 mph.
 
I would wonder if the shudder is the engine misfiring?that would explain the loss of top end and would make it feel rough on acceleration.I would have the engine gone through to make sure no mechanical problem.could be as simple as a plug wire or distributor cap
 
Terri,

Yes, the auto tabs is what I was referring to. If they are on, then they will auto adjust to whatever the boats running aspect (relative to "level") was when last programmed - that may or may not be with the tabs all the way up. Reading the literature on how those auto tabs works could help provide a lot of insight on this.

Thanks Rabyers1,
I actually had the auto tabs off (i did read the instruction manual). I used the manual tab control to ensure tabs were completely up. I did not try a high speed run when using tabs and now wish I did as I'm worried about what might be wrong. the boat was almost entirely unloaded. Only 1/2 tank of fuel, no water, nothing is holding tank, and essentially zero gear on board.
 
I would wonder if the shudder is the engine misfiring?that would explain the loss of top end and would make it feel rough on acceleration.I would have the engine gone through to make sure no mechanical problem.could be as simple as a plug wire or distributor cap

Thanks Johngus, this may make sense. Maybe we're down a cylinder.

I also checked the sea ray site for recommended prop and gear ration of the drive. The bravo 3 has a great ratio of 2.0 and the recommended prop is a 24p which is what we have. I did a slip calculation and amazingly, with 15% slip (which I think is a typ number, I get exactly the speed we were running at WOT and 4000 RPM (38.6mph). So for some reason I can't seem to get that extra 600RPM which would allow me to hit 45mph at the same 15% slip.

Could the throttle cable be out of adjustment (seems a longshot and doesn't account for rough acceleration?

We put 20gal into it when we went for test drive, but there was probably 30 gal in there since end of 08 till now. I wonder if it was any good or maybe loosing some potence?


Terri
 
The "shudder" you speak of could be as simple as improper trim as you come on plane. But if you are buying this from a dealer I would have them pull the drive inspect and service it perform proper alignment just to make sure. If they refuse I would not buy it. I am not sure why you think you need bow thrusters? Give yourself a couple weekends and you will be a pro at driving.
 
The shudder or vibration could also be the outdrive trimmed in the down position. It can create a slight vibration unitl you begin to trim the outdrive up. When at 1/4 tim it should go away. Just an idea? If the boat is not on the water you could use the trim tabs on land to make sue they are fully in the up position, if not that can kill speed.

Anyway it is their problem to proove to you everything is sound before you buy it. After that is is your problem, You are doing the right thing to make sure
 
The shudder or vibration could also be the outdrive trimmed in the down position. It can create a slight vibration unitl you begin to trim the outdrive up. When at 1/4 tim it should go away. Just an idea? If the boat is not on the water you could use the trim tabs on land to make sue they are fully in the up position, if not that can kill speed.

Anyway it is their problem to proove to you everything is sound before you buy it. After that is is your problem, You are doing the right thing to make sure



SPOT! Thank you much for the comment. I did not realize that in full down you can get vibration/shudder. I don't get it with my current boat. Do you know why this is?
we should try to put the trim up one notch if we can do a second water test (pushing my luck).

Good suggestion on tabs. Is full up straight/parallel to hull or are they actually at an up angle to hull bottom?

Thanks,
Terri
 
Like Spot said, sometimes that shudder is just the nature of the beast with a Bravo 3. I don't experience it with mine, but I've been on more than a few that do. But, I've only got the 350 so my engine isn't putting as much torque through the drivetrain as yours.

38 MPH at 4,000 RPMS sound very good! I can touch 40MPH with mine, but that's at 4,800 - 4,900 RPMs (mine is bottom painted, which based on what you're describing about your hull, probably creates more drag than those leftover, little brown things). The question is why can't you get those revs higher. There's a number of good comments above about this - I think at least one more sea trial is due. Start with the easy things - trim.
 
Like Spot said, sometimes that shudder is just the nature of the beast with a Bravo 3. .


Thank you Lazy Daze.
I got under the boat today and note that what I thought was just really fine fibers flat to the hull, is something more. It may be contributing to the slowdown so I'll have it clearned.
Secondly, the props seem to be installed wrong per some things I've read. The props are installed such that the prop blades align directly under the cavitation plate, which I've read can cause vibration. So will be making sure that when they're reinstalled, they change the alignment.


Terri
 
Does the shudder worsen as you turn (even at low speeds)? That would indicate a u-joint or gimble bearing problem. There could be a coupler issue as well but that's all easy stuff to check if you have the tools and / or wouldn't be more than an hour at your local shop if you don't.
My '06 240 / 5.7 mag B3 has run (empty) 46 mph @ 5000 rpm w / 24" props. Normal mid season with people / gas / water / junk is still 42-43 @ 4600 rpm or so. Your boat should be about the same.
Clean props are always important but even moreso with dual-propped units... and... a dirty bottom on anything is always bad news! :lol:
Cheers
 
Secondly, the props seem to be installed wrong per some things I've read. The props are installed such that the prop blades align directly under the cavitation plate, which I've read can cause vibration. So will be making sure that when they're reinstalled, they change the alignment.


Terri

You know, I wonder about this. I've read on this forum many times about this issue. About 2 weeks ago I happened to be looking through my manual. I came across the section where it talks about clocking/timing the props. Interestingly enough, it only mentions to do this with the Blackhawk drive, not the B3. I wonder if the recommendation has changed since '99? :huh:

That being said, I've always timed my props - and will probably continue to do so. Takes no more time to do it one way or the other. :smt001
 
I can just see it now... a bunch of Dancer owners with b3's at their local marina hooking up a timing gun to time their props :grin:

On a serious note, I usally install mine offset. I am going to put some thouht into it tomorrow when I replace zincs.

Membership to SCR has many benfits!

Scott
 

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