Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket issue?

[testlab]

What are the photos of? Are these the old ones touched up with paint or new ones?

I would be getting rid of those paint runs regardless of new or old and a nice flat, true surface is needed for a good seal for the new gaskets.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

What are the photos of? Are these the old ones touched up with paint or new ones?

I would be getting rid of those paint runs regardless of new or old and a nice flat, true surface is needed for a good seal for the new gaskets.

Yes, I should have been more clear. These are the NEW ones, but I got them each from different places. One was lower priced but they only had one in stock. Just wondering if paint drips like on that one is possibly normal or if that is a good indication that somehow I got a used one that was repainted and sold as new.

 

[blaster]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

With all that work tearing it down I wouldn't feel comfortable using parts of questionable quality. Those paint drips are unacceptable on a sealing surface. I would contact the seller and give them hell.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

With all that work tearing it down I wouldn't feel comfortable using parts of questionable quality. Those paint drips are unacceptable on a sealing surface. I would contact the seller and give them hell.

Yep, I am. www.cargolargo.com is where it came from. I may have to order another one, ugh. It does look fine besides those paint drips on the gasket surface... but I just don't know if that is "normal" or not. And if I were to use this one at all, I would certainly sand down the surface to remove the paint drips.

 

[src]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

There shouldn't be ANY paint on a sealing surface. Forget the drips, the fact that the gasket area has paint at all is a no-no.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

There shouldn't be ANY paint on a sealing surface. Forget the drips, the fact that the gasket area has paint at all is a no-no.

Thanks, I have called the place and left a message :smt013.

 

[Ididntdoit]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Is one of them aftermarket? Aftermarket manifolds recently became available for dry joint systems (hence the lower price) - also some sources sell take-offs that come from go-fast mfgs that replace the manifolds with headers when they install the engine at the factory - yours could be a touched up take off too - either way they both look new, clean the paint off the gasket surfaces and use em.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Is one of them aftermarket? Aftermarket manifolds recently became available for dry joint systems (hence the lower price) - also some sources sell take-offs that come from go-fast mfgs that replace the manifolds with headers when they install the engine at the factory - yours could be a touched up take off too - either way they both look new, clean the paint off the gasket surfaces and use em.

Shouldn't be after market. I purchased it as a new Mercruiser part, with the same part number as the original. looks identical to what I have pulled off except the paint drips on the gasket surface, and I also noticed it in the holes where you screw in brass plugs. I did see some after market by a company out there, Mallory I think. This is not one.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Alrighty, well it has been a while, but over an extended 4th of july weekend I finally got the risers replaced and put everything back together. I went "by the book" with the correct sealants and everything from the install docs and service manual, however I did notice when I opened the gasket package, that only 1 set of gaskets had turbulators compared to both sets that were on previously. I did have the correct restricted flow gasket for the top one at least, which is important. So the only difference is that the lower gasket doesn't have that turbulator. Not a big deal to me as I cannot come up with a good reason why it was like that in the first place. The only thing I could think is that this would stop condensation drip from the 3" area above it (which is the height of the riser to the elbow's gasket with turbulator).

Before I started her up, I cranked without the fuel on or the coil hooked up, and all sounded good. No ticks or knocks. Then I turned them both back on and she started the fastest that she ever has! I was really surprised as it usually takes quite a bit of cranking before she actually starts ok up. She sounds really good now (see video here: http://www.curtisgulick.com/pictures/misc/IMG_2186.MOV ). I let her idle for about 10 minutes, going in Foward and Reverse a few times to check that I put the shift cable back on right, and also revved it up a bit to be sure she didn't implode.

Anyway, thank you all for you help!! I'm very glad that I'm not posting threads about replacement engines, and from now on I will always pull the plugs out when I go to de-winterize JUST in case...

 

[julians]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

A happy outcome, great news.

Can you summarise what you think the problem was? Was it just a crack in the wall of the water jacket in the risers? Caused by water freezing as a result of not drainingthem properly when winterising.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

A happy outcome, great news.

Can you summarise what you think the problem was? Was it just a crack in the wall of the water jacket in the risers? Caused by water freezing as a result of not drainingthem properly when winterising.

Before I get my $5 for recycling the cast iron, I'm going to try and do a test somehow to be sure, but my thought is that it was due to salt water use, not winterization issues (unless it happened last year).

When I purchased the boat, the previous owner (worker at NASA) mentioned that he had taken it out in some salt water a few times around Houston, but that he flushed it properly afterwards. Due to all of the rust corrosion over most of the risers/elbows (as opposed to a cleanish look except rust/crust around an obvious crack), I believe that he didn't actually flush it or didn't flush it enough. You'd expect a NASA worker (he did scuba in the "weightless" pools there) would know what he's doing, but who knows...

This winter I don't think we got below freezing except for maybe 4-6 hours, if at all. Very very mild winter in Texas. I did winterize properly, except it seems that some water (not -50 antifreeze that i put through the rest of the system), was left in the riser/elbows even though I did pull all 5 plugs. I will be SURE that I get it all out next year. If it was a winterization issue with crack that caused it, then it has to have happened last year when we were below freezing for 3-4 days straight. We had a lot of snow and it was one of the coldest winters I remember in a long time. So there is a potential that a crack developed then if I also didn't winterize properly at that time, but somehow we ran the boat all last summer without any problems, then this winter the water left in the riser/elbow just seeped into the cylinders. I have doubts about this though, as all summer long I would have expected the water to seep through the same crack(s) and into engine every time after we took her out. We don't go out every weekend usually, so a 2-3 week period should be plenty of time for all the water in the riser/elbow jackets to go through a crack and into a cylinder. We certainly had no issues cranking her over last year.

Lastly, it seems odd that both sides of the engine had a leak, at the same time. I can't say that points towards one cause or another though - just a coincidence.

Sooo... I think I stand behind the saltwater induced rust cause (or at least shortened life). I had read so many places that a freshwater boat really doesn't have to worry about replacing risers/elbows, but then after I had this problem I found some conflicting info that said every 5-7 years for fresh, 3ish for salt. Maybe if I had read that, I would have been proactive about replacing them before they rusted out and let water in the engine.

Live and learn! Got lucky

 

[ardeprint]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Perhaps the engine, or just the risers overheated at some point. Just to be sure check temps of engine, manifold, and elbow using IR gun the first few times you go out.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Perhaps the engine, or just the risers overheated at some point. Just to be sure check temps of engine, manifold, and elbow using IR gun the first few times you go out.

Will do, thanks for the tip. I always keep an eye on engine temp gauge, but have not checked with my IR thermo gun.

 

[julians]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

I'm interested because I have a 2006 200 select that lives in salt water, ie 365 days of the year, I've owned it since new, and have done 400 hours in total. And I'm lead to believe that the dry joint manifolds/risers are much less likely to cause the problem you have suffered.

The general opinion seems to be that the motor will start to run hotter as the risers plug up with rust before the wall finally cracks and let water in. Certainly all the boat mechanics round here say they've never seen a dry joint based engine suffer from water in the cylinders due to corrosion, most have been due to freeze damage. Which is not the case for the traditional wet joint systems.

I'd be very interested to learn what did cause your problem, but I guess you wont know for sure

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

I'm interested because I have a 2006 200 select that lives in salt water, ie 365 days of the year, I've owned it since new, and have done 400 hours in total. And I'm lead to believe that the dry joint manifolds/risers are much less likely to cause the problem you have suffered.

The general opinion seems to be that the motor will start to run hotter as the risers plug up with rust before the wall finally cracks and let water in. Certainly all the boat mechanics round here say they've never seen a dry joint based engine suffer from water in the cylinders due to corrosion, most have been due to freeze damage. Which is not the case for the traditional wet joint systems.

I'd be very interested to learn what did cause your problem, but I guess you wont know for sure

It is possible that the risers themselves were getting clogged and overheated. I had posted previously on here about some dieseling going on with the engine (carbed), and maybe that had something to do with it.

Looking over everything I have the past few months, I do agree that the dry joint system is less likely to leak out or into the exhaust itself due to GASKET issues, because there is no jacket connection right next to the gasket and exhaust tubing, however that is the only difference in the two from what I see. The riser and elbow still has the same amount of hollow space inside to contain water, and I bet the thickness of the wall from the ehxaust into that jacket is the same on both. I did not easily see a crack around the gasket area, and most of the rust seemed to be in the corner of the elbow inside the exhaust tube. I suspect that it corroded the wall between there and the water jacket, and then into the cylinder.

 

[glocklt4]

Re: Water in 2 cylinders when de-winterizing, what to do now. block or head gasket is

Well I thought I was in the clear until I took the boat out for the first time this year on Sat to go fishing. She started right up like last time, however when I went to back off the trailer it died. Started back up fine and this time got it of the trailer and as I was backing away from the ramp she died again. Very rough idle all over the place and giving it gas made it worse unless it was quite a bit of gas, which would bump it up to around 2k rpm. I picked up my buddy from the courtesy doc and idled out of the marina having to keep the rpm's up around 1500 because true idle speed she kept dying. Got out of no-wake zone and punched it with no problems. Ran very smooth all the way up to 5k rpm. Slowed down as we pulled into a fishing area and once around 1100 rpm or so began running rough again. Taking her down to idle speed in gear she died yet again. I had a hell of a time trying to get her to keep from dying at idle. Only one time did I get it to run very smoothly at around 1100 rpm, and that took a lot of playing with the throttle.

Any ideas?!?! Ran perfectly fine when on muff at home. I'm leaning towards carb issues or distrib cap/rotor. Haven't had a chance to check the distrib, and I have not messed with a carb at all, so a bit hesitant to do that (although the manual I found online makes it seem like it's not too bad).

My other thought was bad fuel maybe. This is the same fuel from Oct/Nov last year that was stabilized, but 9 mo is quite a while.

Thanks in advance!