Water Around Shower Sump - Help Please

obsessive

obsessive

New Member
Jun 11, 2007
151
Hampton, IL
Boat Info
99' 240DA
Engines
5.7L TBI - 260HP
I'm having a rather odd problem that's plagued our boat for the three years we've had it. After finding a deck hatch that was leaking, I decided I'd had enough and want to aggressively attack this, but I need some help. We just got done with the 5th larges amount of recorded rainfall in my area, so it's pretty much been raining non stop.

The boat gets water in the shower sump area around the shower sump box. The area around the box is coated with the same grey epoxy that the engine compartment/bilge is, and has what appears to be a plywood inbed (epoxy/glass coated as well) to provide a flat mounting surface for the shower sump brackets. This area is under the top stair, underneath where the garbage can goes.

I do know a few things, the sump is NOT leaking. We do not have A/C, and the water is NOT running in from the sides. It is, however, coming in in a weird way. To the right (in the photos) of the shower sump mounting 'pad' (the plywood inbed mentioned earlier) is a small area that has small voids in the grey epoxy (presumably bubbles from application that 'popped' when it cured). Out of these 1/16" voids (they number two or three) comes water. It is a seeping flow (you can see it coming in if you vacuum it out), and sometimes will be dry, and other times fill within an inch of touching the carpet.

The odd thing is that it never gets higher than that. Initially I thought it was a hull leak, but I figured that area is well under the water line, and the water level in there mimics the level in the engine bilge.

HOW is this water making it from the bilge to the shower sump area? I'm assuming there's some small voids in the engine bilge area and its letting water up there. How do I stop it? What other damage is it doing? Am I right to assume that it's not pressurized water coming in, as it always stabilizes.

Please help me tackle this annoying (and possibly destructive?) issue. And, sorry for the somewhat poor photos, all I had was my cell phone camera.

Thanks,

Eric

IMG00080.jpg


IMG00083.jpg
 
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Do you always have water leak around shower sump? Rain or no rain?
1) If happens all the time - I would pull boat from water and check bottom for cracks and water intrusion using moisture meter

2) If happens sometimes - leak around shower drain or leak around toilet mounts and hoses or separated seal along shower walls or leak under head or galley sink

3) If happens only after heavy rain - look for leaky portholes, windshield mounting screws, rub-rail etc.
Water will enter boat and travel behind vinyl on walls and can be very difficult to pinpoint where leak comes from.
Common places - portholes, especially in head and galley area, sink drain thru-hull fitting, windshield mounting screws, deck mounted Sirius antenna, rub-rail - especially areas where boat hit poles.
 
Eric,

Do a search on the topic & you will find that most folks lean towards rain water intrusion. You did mention abnormal amounts. However you also told us that the problem is an ongoing one, so here is my thought...

You mentioned that the water "mimics the level in the bildge" & "the water is not running down the sides of the area." So if you are thinking that the water makes its way from the bildge, maybe you could dump some food coloring (and some water if needed) into the bildge. This could verify that the water is indeed comming from there. If it is, maybe you could dry out the bildge & reseal the joint in front of the fuel tank.
 
boatmailster said:
Do you always have water leak around shower sump? Rain or no rain?
1) If happens all the time - I would pull boat from water and check bottom for cracks and water intrusion using moisture meter

2) If happens sometimes - leak around shower drain or leak around toilet mounts and hoses or separated seal along shower walls or leak under head or galley sink

3) If happens only after heavy rain - look for leaky portholes, windshield mounting screws, rub-rail etc.
Water will enter boat and travel behind vinyl on walls and can be very difficult to pinpoint where leak comes from.
Common places - portholes, especially in head and galley area, sink drain thru-hull fitting, windshield mounting screws, deck mounted Sirius antenna, rub-rail - especially areas where boat hit poles.
Click to expand...

Well, it's been raining every two days or so. So, it's hard to tell if it happens all the time (at least this year). But, in years prior, it was dependent on rain (in the middle of summer, with little rain and a pretty dry bilge, it was as dry as can be)

1) It really appears dependent on the level of water in the bilge. The two deck fittings that drain the cockpit through the bilge (and then overboard) are leaking and need to be re-sealed. This is why there's water in the bilge.

It was raining like crazy today. While I was on the boat. I could see no traces what-so-ever of water coming in any other place but the area circled in the photo. It's coming UP from that area. If the water was coming from the side of the boat, I'd assume it wouldn't come out of the keel area. But, again, as the photos are labeled, the water is actually coming IN through the circiled area (where I mentioned the 'voids' in the epoxy).

Is it safe to assume since the water level never gets higher than 1.5" or so that it's NOT coming from outside - the area that the leak is in is probably 1.5 feet below the water line. I figured if it was, it would be much higher. Also, I've NEVER witnessed the bilge run when the boat was sitting (I DO test the bilge float every year by running a hose into the bilge).
 
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mwph said:
Eric,

Do a search on the topic & you will find that most folks lean towards rain water intrusion. You did mention abnormal amounts. However you also told us that the problem is an ongoing one, so here is my thought...

You mentioned that the water "mimics the level in the bildge" & "the water is not running down the sides of the area." So if you are thinking that the water makes its way from the bildge, maybe you could dump some food coloring (and some water if needed) into the bildge. This could verify that the water is indeed comming from there. If it is, maybe you could dry out the bildge & reseal the joint in front of the fuel tank.
Click to expand...

I did a search, and only found where people cut the carpet back as a 'resolution' for wet carpet. Mines (carpet) only gotten wet with two people in the v-berth, and the carpet does extend down into this sump area too much. But, that's not really a solution, it just 'fixes' the a symptom. It really seems to commonly (from my searches) affect pre-2000 boats.

Food coloring is a good idea. I will take some down there tomorrow to see what happens.
 
Eric, your boat is a little older than mine but the idea is the same I think.
If you look real close you will see that the circled area is actually a limberhole to the engine compartment bilge. I think it is designed to drain the sump area to the bilge area so the bilge pump will empty it.
Questions:
Does your boat sit bow heavy in the water?
Does your engine compartment hatch have sufficiently deep drain gutters, to channel water around the hatch instead of flowing over the edge?
Are your drain hoses from the gutters, attached and not leaking?

What I'm thinking is the rain is overflowing the drains around the engine compartment, and water is collecting in the bilge. The bilge pump does not pump all water from the bilge. If your boat is bow heavy, the water is running backwards toward the shower sump through the limber hole.

Simple...yea right. Just a thought. Check it out, you never know. I could be very wrong, been that before! mike
 
islandhopper00 said:
Eric, your boat is a little older than mine but the idea is the same I think.
If you look real close you will see that the circled area is actually a limberhole to the engine compartment bilge. I think it is designed to drain the sump area to the bilge area so the bilge pump will empty it.
Questions:
Does your boat sit bow heavy in the water?
Does your engine compartment hatch have sufficiently deep drain gutters, to channel water around the hatch instead of flowing over the edge?
Are your drain hoses from the gutters, attached and not leaking?

What I'm thinking is the rain is overflowing the drains around the engine compartment, and water is collecting in the bilge. The bilge pump does not pump all water from the bilge. If your boat is bow heavy, the water is running backwards toward the shower sump through the limber hole.

Simple...yea right. Just a thought. Check it out, you never know. I could be very wrong, been that before! mike
Click to expand...

Since I was down there when it was raining hard, I did find that there was water making it in around the deck drains around the engine compartment. So, I think I found the source of water in the bilge.

As far as the limber hole goes. The area circled in the photo is completely covered in expoxy/fiberglass and is on the side of what I would assume to be a glassed, plywood 'shelf' over the V of the keel to give the shoer sump a flat mounting surface. The water is coming in on one of the vertical sides of it where it appears that someone mixed the epoxy and got too many bubbles in it, and when it cured, the bubbles popped, leaving an unsealed (from the engine compartment) path for the water to make it back and forth). Probably not an intentional limber hole, but an 'accidental' one (or, at least it doesn't look intentional).

I'm taking Tuesday of this week off to re-seal the deck hatch (found it leaking), and I'm going to remove and reseal the drains around the ingine compartment lip. Hopefully this will limit whats making it in the bilge, and in turn stop this issue.
 
Well, I've done a bit more searhing for the infamous water leak, so I figured I'd update this thread...

I first checked the anchor locker, as I noticed that the floor of the locker is about 1.5-2" below the level of the drains. I ran water into the locker while looking for leaks around and into the shower sump area (I had completely dried it out) and wasn't able to duplicate the issue. Then, I checked around the front U-bolt and all railing uprights that had access cover-plates by running a hose over the hull of the boat on each of the items and was unable to isolate the leak. Next on the list is to have a friend help focus a spray on the portlight areas to look for leaks.

I did, however, find that it will be hard to isolate any leaks behind the fiberglass shower insert. I can *somewhat* see behind there from the cabin area, but getting tools back there would be out of the question (and, it just so happens that one if the railing uprights has it's mounting plate there). I would assume I could gain a little more access if I take the portlight's trim ring off when we're checking for leaks.

One thing I do know is what doesn't leak. I'll report back in as my hunt progresses.
 
If you boat in saltwater, you could do the "taste test" to see if its coming in from outside. Stick a finger in the water and touch the tip of your tounge. I've done it in my bilge, just don't swallow the water.
 
The 250 is notorious for having water leak from the bottom of the shower instead of following the hose to the sump pump. I may have missed a detail from your posts, but something else to try is to fill a bucket with water and poor it into your shower. See if the water makes its way to the area in concern. If you addressed this, then, sorry.
 
To add to what Hampton said, add some food coloring to that bucket as a visual aid in determining if its the shower leaking.
 
I just bought a 1997 250 Sundancer and it has the same issue. The boat was kept high and dry before and never - at least to my knowledge- had this issue. I'm just starting to investigate and really appreciate all the prior posts on this topic. Please be sure to post any findings and I'll do the same...

Joe
 
Our 206 240 Sundancer also had and now has around the shower sump. This water leaks through and also soaks the carpeting in front of the fridge. It took a year for the dealer to finally identify and stop the leak which he said was at the trim tab screws not being sealed properly. This solution worked for almost exactly 1 year, but now we have water again. The water has never gone any deeper than a good soaking of the carpeting.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. I did take someones suggestion and put coloring in the bilge, and this helped me determine my issue.

Regardless, I wanted to give an update, as I'm sure others will stumble across this thread.

I DID find where the water is coming from. Unfortunately, I'm unsure on the 'fix' for it. The water is absolutely coming from the bilge area, leaking through small voids (bubbles I assume from the mixing of the epoxy which popped when curing) in the grey epoxy coating, forward along the keel, and into the shower sump area. After looking at photos of the boat out of the water, the shower sump/stair area is the deepest point in the water, so any water in the bilge potentially will try to make it to this area.

The real 'problem' is that I'm unsure how to:

a: Seal off the engine compartment enough to keep the water from leeching through the epoxy holes (I sure wish the SR glasser didn't mix so many bubbles in).

b: Keep water from making it into the bilge in the first place

The problem with 'b' is that while the cockpit has huge drains to take water from the cockpit area, channel it around the engine hatch lip, put it overboard through two hull fittings, there are plenty of other areas of leakage. The sprayer on the swim platform just sits in a recess (just like a sink sprayer) with no cover, and the blower intake vents are completely exposed and are pointed upwards (water runs right off of the top of the canvas, over the back bench, down the canvas velcro'd flap, and runs directly into the intakes - not sure what I can do about this). I also have a small leak around the ladder bolts (need to rebed them) and one of the lower rear bench bolts is letting water in, but it spins when I try to tighten it further so I'm unsure how to get to the top of it. Fortunately there are no leaks from the transom seal, trim tab mounts or lines, or other fittings.

My assumption is that this is a design defect with the late-90's 240-250 DA's as their hulls are very similar from what I can tell.
 
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Here are a couple of photos of the boat this spring to help illustrate where the water is coming in and why I think that it's settling in the under-stair area.

BoatWaterLeak1.jpg


BoatWaterLeak2.jpg
 
Just saw this post from last year as I was trying to assess the very same thing. How did you end up?

I've had my Sundancer on a trailer all winter and my galley has water down by the fridge as well as in the sink! Can't figure out where it's coming from.

Would love to benefit from anything you've learned!

Thanks.
 
Purchased an 05 260 Sundancer two years ago and still seeing water around the shower sump that leeks into the rug in front of the fridge. Completely frustrating. I have ruled out a number of things including he toilet leaking, shower leaking, fridge leaking, kithchen sink leaking. Waters seems more prevalent when it rains. My next step is to re-cock around the base of the windshield as it seems to be coming in from the outside. Any other advice is appreciated. Thanks.
 
After owning my 1998 Sea Ray 250 for 7 years I have just encountered the same problem. I keep cockpit cover over my boat during the summer and took it out for the first time yesterday. It was very rough coming out of the Port of Everett and by the time I got to my cabin on Camano Island I noticed a wet spot on the carpet for the first time down between the refrigerator door and the head door on the carpet. This has never happened before. I opened up this top stair where the garbage can sits above the shower sump pump and there was approximately 2 inches of water down there around shower sump pump box. There was no additional water in the bilge area. I suspect that it must be coming from rain somewhere else on the top side. In the winter I have a full canvas cover that covers the boat from bow to stern so this must have been something to happen since I took that cover off. We’ve had an excessive amount of rain here in the Pacific Northwest for the last couple of months. I would be further interested if anyone else has some ideas. Finding leaks from the top side sounds very difficult. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do that or other ideas about where water could be coming from?
 
Update - I extracted the water from the compartment. Noticed it had color in it like what I use for my waterline antifreeze. Thinking it must be coming from my water system somewhere. Now need to find it.
 
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