Volvo IPS w/Joystick
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Nehalennia
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2007
- 10,006
- Boat Info
- 2001 310DA twin 350 MAGs, Westerbeke 4.5KW
- Engines
- Twin 350 MAG V-drives
Merc has it's answer= Zeus
http://www.cmdmarine.com/zuesvid_hi.html
http://www.cmdmarine.com/zuesvid_hi.html
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Morpheus
New Member
- May 7, 2007
- 2,450
- Boat Info
- 2006 SeaRay Sundeck 240
- Engines
- 5.0MPI Mercruiser w/ Bravo III
I've heard that the IPS drives if you hit a log or ground them and you are going fast enough to rip them off that you will do serious damage to the boat and that Merc's new drives are built better to break away and not damage th boat as much.
ANYTIME
New Member
All the reading and research I have done tells me that the Zeus drives face aft and are semi-protected in "tunnels".:thumbsup: The IPS drives appear to be mounted out in the open, facing forward and without a shroud or any kind of protection.:smt013
Both the IPS and Zeus drives are designed to "snap" off cleanly without damage to the hull in the case of a solid strike to the drive.:smt038 In the case of an IPS drive, Volvo states a replacement drive can be installed in a very short time.:smt038 I have not yet seen/read about the replacement time/effort for a damaged/lost Zeus drive.:huh:
I am anxious to learn more about these drives and look forward to their implementation in a Searay boat that I can afford.
Volvo is close to releasing a joystick "IPS-like" implementation of their Twin Stern Drive system in boats under 40 feet. It utilizes their "drive by wire" controls of the twin engines to provide "IPS like" slow (IDLE) speed docking and maneuvering.:thumbsup:
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Morpheus
New Member
- May 7, 2007
- 2,450
- Boat Info
- 2006 SeaRay Sundeck 240
- Engines
- 5.0MPI Mercruiser w/ Bravo III
Just to add to what I was told, yes they are designed to break of but from what the guy said he's seen happening is when they break off they drive the prop into the bottom of the boat where he said it seemed the merc's broke off more cleanly. Again just relaying what I was told I've not seen anything documented on this.
Weave
New Member
That boat was SEXY.....
If you want some factual answers from owners who already have Volvo's IPS, you would be better off asking your questions on one of the other "general" boat boards such as BoatUS. IPS has never been installed on a Sea Ray but has been installed on other boat brands. I believe there were some recent factual reports by owners of IPS systems recently on one of those boards. Sea Rays will use the Mercruiser Zeuss set up for inboards and Mercruiser's Apollo set up for out drives. Both systems give you joystick controls and independent directional operation of either the pod or the outdrive. Do a search and you will find links to several videos of the Merc systems that I posted awhile back.
Dave
Dave
I don't have any direct experience with these so please don't call me an idiot. These are my concerns:
1. Occasionally hitting something is an inevitable fact of boating. Are these things going to turn a simple prop fix (along with a checking of shaft alignment) into an extremely expensive repair by having to replace the lower unit that you lost? I can't imagine if you are out gunkholing and hit the bottom and both drives pop off. Won't be listening to Tim's "Make a left on the river when the trees touch the boat bridge" directions anymore.
2. This is generation 1 of a new technology. Maybe they are superstar engineers and won't have to make any changes in generation 2... uh huh... yep... How did those first generation Sea Ray Navigators turn out? "Sorry about you losing your steering but you'll have to download the latest drivers and software and install those on the system." I'm the biggest electronic boat gadget geek but something about a computer owning my steering system would give me pause. The quality control and testing here is nothing like the aircraft industry where that is common now and look at all the problems those planes have had.
3. I sure hope that Sea Ray doesn't start building all their bridge boats with the engines in the rear as it will totally mess up the weight balance. Look at the performance results of the 47DB which is the only current bridge boat they have with a rear engine/v-drive and it appears to be a butt heavy and slow pig. Didn't Sea Ray build their bridge boats a few decades ago with a rear engine layout? They are going to take well balanced mid-engine designs and turn them into a butt heavy Carvers just to get more space inside.
At the end of the day, anyone that currently owns them is probably going to give them rave reviews (because they bought them). The manufacturer is also going to hype them. The real test is time, however, and with this expensive of an investment, proven designs make more sense IMO.
1. Occasionally hitting something is an inevitable fact of boating. Are these things going to turn a simple prop fix (along with a checking of shaft alignment) into an extremely expensive repair by having to replace the lower unit that you lost? I can't imagine if you are out gunkholing and hit the bottom and both drives pop off. Won't be listening to Tim's "Make a left on the river when the trees touch the boat bridge" directions anymore.
2. This is generation 1 of a new technology. Maybe they are superstar engineers and won't have to make any changes in generation 2... uh huh... yep... How did those first generation Sea Ray Navigators turn out? "Sorry about you losing your steering but you'll have to download the latest drivers and software and install those on the system." I'm the biggest electronic boat gadget geek but something about a computer owning my steering system would give me pause. The quality control and testing here is nothing like the aircraft industry where that is common now and look at all the problems those planes have had.
3. I sure hope that Sea Ray doesn't start building all their bridge boats with the engines in the rear as it will totally mess up the weight balance. Look at the performance results of the 47DB which is the only current bridge boat they have with a rear engine/v-drive and it appears to be a butt heavy and slow pig. Didn't Sea Ray build their bridge boats a few decades ago with a rear engine layout? They are going to take well balanced mid-engine designs and turn them into a butt heavy Carvers just to get more space inside.
At the end of the day, anyone that currently owns them is probably going to give them rave reviews (because they bought them). The manufacturer is also going to hype them. The real test is time, however, and with this expensive of an investment, proven designs make more sense IMO.
I have to go with Gary on this one.
Especially about the design implications. I don't want to see these drives installed into an existing hull. I want to see a hull designed around these drives.
Besides his points, one has to get a sense of how corrosion is handled on these drives. I am sure the original BIII owners were told "We know how to handle corrossion - it won't be an issue".
Especially about the design implications. I don't want to see these drives installed into an existing hull. I want to see a hull designed around these drives.
Besides his points, one has to get a sense of how corrosion is handled on these drives. I am sure the original BIII owners were told "We know how to handle corrossion - it won't be an issue".
shrike
New Member
- Dec 10, 2006
- 69
I am in love with the "electronic anchor" feature though!
wkearney99
Active Member
- Feb 23, 2006
- 583
- Boat Info
- 47'
- Engines
- Twin Caterpillar C-12, Twin Disc straight shaft inboards.
From what I've read all boats using IPS took the system into account when redesigning the hull and engine room to accommodate it. This with assistance from Volvo/Penta engineers.
As for running it aground, I'd much rather have a pod drop cleanly off the unit instead of having a strut or outdrive yanking out chunks of the hull. Better to lose motive power alone without also dealing with the boat sinking. Either situation is going to be an insurance claim. I'd rather not have the job take a lot longer dealing with hull repairs and water damage clean up.
As for running it aground, I'd much rather have a pod drop cleanly off the unit instead of having a strut or outdrive yanking out chunks of the hull. Better to lose motive power alone without also dealing with the boat sinking. Either situation is going to be an insurance claim. I'd rather not have the job take a lot longer dealing with hull repairs and water damage clean up.
Sorry to take so long to respond but my clients have been exceedingly demanding for the last several weeks and that has limited my internet time. I've posted my experiences with IPS on both the BoatUS site (User name SEEG) and the ******** site (user name DDL). If you do a search (IPS) I'm sure you'll run across the posts. That being said, IPS is more efficient ( I cruise a 32000 pound boat, towing a 12 foot Zodiac w/ a 40 HP honda at 22-23 knots using 31GPH). Thats fast in the PacNW with all our debris in the water. I just turned 270 hours and had my first debris strike. A new set of props have been scanned and the prop shop assures me my old set can be made the same as new. We'll see. Incidently, a set (duop props) can be had for $1700 per side or $3400 for both. I ordered one spare set as they're interchangable. I'm not sure but that seems comparable to similiar sized boats.
There are other benefits to IPS (and Zeus) like more useable room, quieter, less vibration, less maintenance etc. For example, our 43 foot boat has an L shaped galley that's huge, comparable to one found on 50'+ boats. We have a second state room and head with a shower. One can actually stretch out in the twin bunks and they are convertible to a queen. The boat and engines are extremely smooth. It must be experienced to be believed. The same can be said of the noise level, even though at idle the exhaust bubbles hitting the bottom of the boat are somewhat annoying. Both high and low speed manuevers are much different than a shaft drive boat. The boat leans in to high speed turns (not uncomfortably) and the turning radius is much less than on a comparably sized shaft driven boat. At low or idle speeds the boat tracks well without constant attention to the rudders. It steers as well on one engine as it does on two. If you can arrange a sea trial from any of the several manufacturers who have IPS in their boats, do it. You will come away impressed.
The joystick makes a nice handling boat even better. I have had shafts (both v-drive and straight drive) for over 15 years and could manuever them w/o difficulty. After an experience or two with the joystick to get use to the way it works it is far superior. I had a bow thruster on my Tiara before the joystick was available and I liked it for making small corrections while backing my 14'9" beam boat into a 15'3" slip. The joystick simply works better. As in any type of slow speed maneuvering judicious application of power works best. Remember, your drive engines are propelling the drive props not a battery spinning a thruster prop. Slow is better. I have moved my boat sideways off a dock where I was pinnned on by a 25-30 knot wind with boats both in front of me and behind me. I pulled around the dock and again , into the wind placed the boat sideways between two other boats. I've changed my technique when docking from approaching at an angle to simply pulling up next to where I want the boat and then moving it sideways. It's actually fun.
My wife complains that its not really necessary to begin the approach 50-60 feet away from the dock or to maintain side thrust longer than necessay when pulling away from the dock, but again, it's fun and I enjoy watching the look on peoples faces.
I hope this helps. If you have specific inquiries I'll try to respond.
Last weekend, I had the oprotunity to seatrail one...It was fantastic!!! It does take a different techique as the joystick is a bit touchy, but I assume after a few hours at the helm, it would be second nature. Great new technolgy. Now, I just have to find a used one that I can afford!
