Video of wobbling port prop shaft

[swordfisherman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7moW63rR9HQ

Here is a link to the video of my port shaft. As suggested by Frank W, we put the magnetic caliper atop a loose 1/2 inch steel plate. I could not find an area to use c clamps on the plate. But due to the weight of the steel plate, we are able to keep the caliper stable, but at high rpm i think the steel plate also vibrates. Can the experts please diagnose my problem? Thank you.

Also please excuse the length of the video because they were joined together by my 10 yr old nephew since i am out of town.

 

[swordfisherman]

Would you consider It tolerable?

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[ttmott]

Idea is right but not to be done with engine turning the shaft; the indicator is bouncing. Set it up like you have it but rotate the shaft by hand and obtain the total indicator runout (TIR). You have enough room to get a measurement at the drive hub on the shaft and then another right next to the seal. These two measurements will tell a lot. TIR is a differential measurement between the minimum and maximum indicated measurements.

 

[swordfisherman]

Thanks to ttmott, we did turn it in neutral and engine off. There was nothing wrong with the shaft. Almost zero

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[Air O'Nautical]

I've not done that on my boat but, that can't be right!

Im guessing the shaft seal won't stand for much of that before leaking.

Things to check are:

engine needs to be running as smoothly as possible.
a rough running engine will shake in its mounts.

engine mounts, not broken, loose or worn out.

engine alignment to the props shaft needs to be checked.

strut bearing....wear?

prop might be damaged. One blade tweaked?

shaft might be bent.

good luck,

Mark

 

[fwebster]

The shaft where you measured it has roughly .025" run out, as best I can tell with the vibration going on. That is a lot more than the .005" that Sea Ray specifies on a '96 model, which is the only manual I have. In fact, you have so much runout that you can see the Tides shaft seal wobbling. With this much runout, sooner or later the lip seal will wear out and you will get some leaking.

Where to go at this point with the boat in the water is a mystery. To eliminate some issues raised thus far, I think you can discount rough idle, excessive engine vibration, etc. since your engines look and sound completely normal. About the only other thing you can do with the boat in the water is to have the engine alignment checked just to eliminate it, but honestly, engines out of alignment generally exhibit shaft vibration in direct proportion to rpm since the misalignment forces a slight bend in the shaft which makes the prop end whip.

Next, when the boat is hauled out, the port cutlass bearing should be checked and replaced if it is worn. Then the shaft needs to be removed and chucked in a lathe to verify straightness. The coupler should also be checked to be sure the faces are square and mate properly. A good machine shop with experience can straighten a bent shaft if it isn't too far out. You should also check the tides seal housing for wear and replace it if necessary, but at a minimum, replace the lip seal while the boat is out of the water.

It seems to me the worst thing you have going on, since you don't notice a vibration, is that the shaft seal is going to leak at some point. You don't need to haul the boat out until it leaks enough to be un-manageable. At that point, you can get into the diagnostics of checking the shaft, the props, replacing cutlass bearings, replacing the shaft seal etc.

 

[Air O'Nautical]

As a reference, what does the other side do?

 

[swordfisherman]

Frank can i have a diver pull the prop out while the boat is in the water? I am thinking that the problem is between the prop and the shaft seals. This way i can try to turn the shaft by the engine without the prop and see if the runout is still there. Though with visual inspection, there were no dents or dings on the prop.

I have emailed Sea Ray regarding cutlass bearings but i never got a reply from them. So are cutlass and strut bearing one and the same part? I cannot dry dock the boat without the parts, or else the daily charge would kill me.

 

[swordfisherman]

Air O, there seems to be nothing wrong with the engine. Oil pressure of the port engine is a bit over the 50 psi mark, while the starboard is a bit lower than 50. Mounts look new and strudy too. I just could not find someone over here who could do the engine alignment. That was also my first thing on the list.

Starboard engine and running gear runs perfectly.

 

[swordfisherman]

Btw I dont have any leaks on the port seals either. Can i change the tide seals while the boat is in the water? No? Thanks.

 

[Air O'Nautical]

Air O, there seems to be nothing wrong with the engine. Oil pressure of the port engine is a bit over the 50 psi mark, while the starboard is a bit lower than 50. Mounts look new and strudy too. I just could not find someone over here who could do the engine alignment. That was also my first thing on the list.

Starboard engine and running gear runs perfectly.

I only mention because, a friend had this problem exactly!!....and his engine was the whole problem. This was a gas motor though..He hauled out, scanned the props, replaced strut bearings, relaunched and lined up the engines, and continued the rest of the way to Florida (1000 mile trip) at slow speeds.
When in Florida he found out his injectors were clogged some and causing the engine to move the shaft like yours.
I don't think your engines are the problem but,it was worth checking.
My guess is engine alignment first and/or strut bearing next.
Got to be a marine mechanic somewhere there.......

Mark

 

[Air O'Nautical]

Btw I dont have any leaks on the port seals either. Can i change the tide seals while the boat is in the water? No? Thanks.

Yes, as long as you have a spare seal on the shaft already. It's closer to the engine and I think I see it in your vid.

 

[swordfisherman]

Thanks Air O, so no danger of flooding the boat? Do you think it could also be the seals? Most of the runout or wobble is toward the rear where the seals are.

 

[peterkvs]

You are going to have to call Sea Ray with your HIN to get the part info for your strut bearing. When I got my info for the 99 400 DA I found that actual manufacturer was Algonac Cast Products http://www.algonaccast.com/ and was able to talk to them and they reluctantly sold me the strut bearing for less than half the cost of any where else I found. The strut bearing are all named after fish.

If you have no runout on the shaft when you turn it by hand, and that horrible vibration and runout when the engine is turning the prop at idle I would suspect that you have a badly damaged prop. Get someone to dive under the boat and examine the prop. I'd think a blade was bent over or missing. If this started all of a sudden you may have fouled your prop or shaft with a rope or fishing net etc.

Pete

 

[swordfisherman]

I only mention because, a friend had this problem exactly!!....and his engine was the whole problem. This was a gas motor though..He hauled out, scanned the props, replaced strut bearings, relaunched and lined up the engines, and continued the rest of the way to Florida (1000 mile trip) at slow speeds.
When in Florida he found out his injectors were clogged some and causing the engine to move the shaft like yours.
I don't think your engines are the problem but,it was worth checking.
My guess is engine alignment first and/or strut bearing next.
Got to be a marine mechanic somewhere there.......

Mark

Thank you for your concern Mark, I already had a 1000 hour check. Oil change and valve adjustments. You have a point there. I will have it checked again. Problem here is the cat tech doesn't know alignment jobs. Only service the engine. They are more heavy equipment techs for Earth movers and the likes.

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[swordfisherman]

You are going to have to call Sea Ray with your HIN to get the part info for your strut bearing. When I got my info for the 99 400 DA I found that actual manufacturer was Algonac Cast Products http://www.algonaccast.com/ and was able to talk to them and they reluctantly sold me the strut bearing for less than half the cost of any where else I found. The strut bearing are all named after fish.

If you have no runout on the shaft when you turn it by hand, and that horrible vibration and runout when the engine is turning the prop at idle I would suspect that you have a badly damaged prop. Get someone to dive under the boat and examine the prop. I'd think a blade was bent over or missing. If this started all of a sudden you may have fouled your prop or shaft with a rope or fishing net etc.

Pete

Thanks you Pete. I did email sea ray but got no reply up to now. The dry docking facility just wants a rough estimate of diameter because the tell me that it can just be machined down. They were also telling me about a replacement for the cutlass bearings. I think they called it torque bearings which are all rubber? Have u heard of this?

So, I had been asking this before but never got an answer. Are strut bearings and cutlass bearings one and the same? Thanks again.

Lit


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[swordfisherman]

Oh I forgot, Philippine waters are full of trash and debris. Plus fishing nets everywhere. We have to clean the running gear almost every boating day. But upon visual inspection of the props they look good and perfect. I personally dove under the boat and did not find anything wrong with the prop

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[Bt Doctur]

Have you checked the trans coupler to shaft coupler alignment?

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Strut Bearings and Cutlass Bearings are the same thing - Yes.

 

[Air O'Nautical]

Thanks Air O, so no danger of flooding the boat? Do you think it could also be the seals? Most of the runout or wobble is toward the rear where the seals are.

No. The seal cannot make the shaft wobble.

If you have good access to the rear of the transmission....start watching Youtube and reading everything you can about marine engine shaft alignment.....and do it yourself.

You have checked all the simple stuff so, you need to check engine alignment next...there's no way around it..

Mark