***Very Worried...***

[Yannih]

G'Day All,
It's probably here somewhere but I looked on the forum but had no joy on this major concern.

I just bought a 2000 Sea Ray 190 CC with a 5.0 Mercruiser Thunderbolt 5 Ignition engine.
I live in New Zealand and the boat was purchased from the North Island where it's a lot warmer (the previous owner has never had to winterise and so does not know) and transported to where I live in on the South Island where winter is now upon us.

My concern is yesterday when I went to winterise the engine and drain all water from the engine I could only find 3 blue plastic drain plugs (two on the starboard side and one on the port side) which were all located at the end of water hoses.
The online manual I downloaded (unsure if it is 100% for the engine I have) states there are at least four if not five blue drain plugs to drain both manifold and cylinder blocks.
On the below below pic I can see drain plug "a" but not "b".

Murphy's law states that the cold weather temp's have just hit and I am really worried there is still water in where it can do major damage.

Any idea's at all on this one would really be appreciated...

 

[Hoplite808]

I think there is only the one block plug and one on each exhaust manifold too.

 

[boatman37]

I would suspect there would be another pair on the opposite side. Mine is a 2006 but it has them in the same spots your drawing shows but I have them on each side and also one in the front of the engine near the raw water pump. Some will have one in the back of the raw water pump too.

 

[Yannih]

Hi Guy's, thank you for your replies.
I went back down stairs to the boat for a second look and yes, there are two cylinder block drain plugs but they are not the blue plastic versions. They are two steel bolts, one on either side of the engine in exactly position (b) that the pic I added above shows.
I didn't see them originally because
a) I was looking for the blue plastic versions
and
b) The boat is a 2000 and has never had those bolts removed as there was no need to due to no winter conditions so they had a fair bit of gunk and some rust making them very hard to see.
Damn mission getting to them to undo them and release the water but its done now so all good again.
Thanks again and I feel much better now...

 

[Yannih]

Just out of interest, is there any way to swap the steel bolt drain plugs I have to the blue plastic drain plugs?
It would make draining the blocks so much easier.
Maybe some sort of adapter?

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Just out of interest, is there any way to swap the steel bolt drain plugs I have to the blue plastic drain plugs?
It would make draining the blocks so much easier.
Maybe some sort of adapter?

I'd stick with the metal plugs where possible since the blue ones get brittle and break while trying to remove after a period of time.

My engines are not 5.0 but each one has 9 drains. Starting from the top of the motor, there is one blue plug on the thermostat housing, one blue plug on the bottom of the stb exhaust manifold, one blue plug on the bottom of the port exhaust manifold, a brass tap on the end of a drain hose coming from the stb side block, another brass tap on the end of a drain hose coming from the port side block, a blue plug on the front of the water distribution housing (ball type plastic housing), one blue plug on the bottom of the pipe going from the distribution housing to the other side of the engine and up to the engine's circulation pump, and finally, two blue plugs on the side of the raw water pump (only applicable if you have a Bravo Drive - not if you have an Alpha).

Originally the engine had a single drain fitting but the previous owner didn't trust it and separated the various drain spots to ensure that each one was properly clear and drained. I either stick a piece of household ground wire into the open holes or blow compressed air into the drains to ensure no debris remains, preventing the water from exiting. Air doesn't freeze and expand but water sure does!

You also want to address your plumbing if the boat is equipped with a head or potable water systems and sink drains to avoid a nasty surprise come spring.

 

[Yannih]

G'Day Jimmy, thanks for that.

5 drains on my 5.0 seems like a reasonable thing.
All have now been drained using the wire trick to clear sediment and ensure total drain.
One thing I got from your above post that I never considered is the blue plastic plugs will get brittle and break.
Think I will replace them all with newbies for piece of mind.

Also, my little 190 only has a stand alone porta potty which has been emptied so all good there.

Thanks again...

 

[BillK2632]

This is not meant to be winterizing instructions....just a few points.
Like mentioned, there are usually 5 drain plugs:
1 on each exhaust manifold
1 each side of engine block
1 on front to drain water pump.
Also, check power steering cooler - it usually drains on it's own, but check it.
I usually flog my engine (what ever method is appropriate for your fuel system) and then backfill the block and mainfolds by pouring antifreeze into the thermostat housing.
The blue drain plugs are cheap and readily available, if you don't overtighten them they usually hold up pretty well.

As far as freezing - a general rule (although I get nervouse anytime it falls below freezing and my boat is not winterized.) is it takes about 3 days of lows below 25deg F and highs that don't reach above 40deg F before things are cold enough to freeze and cause damage. I keep a thermometer in my boat during the winter that records the low temperature. I am in an unheated building and even with nights in the 20s and even teens it almost never get's below freezing -- I still winterize since I am not using the boat Dec-Mar and it is possible to get a cold / freezing snap in our generally mild North Carolina winters.

 

[Lazy Daze]

All plugs would have originally been blue plastic. As elluded to above, somewhere along the way some broke and a previous owner replaced with steel. Most likely, the steel ones the guy used are the same thread as the blue ones? Meaning, swapping back to blue is easy.

If you do stick with not using the blue ones, get brass/bronze plugs - not steel. Or, you can get aftermarket SS plugs similar in design to the blue ones.

That said, the blue plugs are really nice as they remove easily - just replace them every 5 to 10 years and you'll be fine.

Your engine is carb'd? You won't have the 5th plug at the fuel cooler (which would be behind the port motor mount). You MAY have a 5th one in the lower bend of the block coolant hose. Some do, some don't. But that's all you should have - either 4 or 5.

Easy peasy winterizing! After fogging, drain and then use the hoses at the t-stat to refill with non-tox propylene glycol antifreeze to be sure that... any remaining pockets of water are taken care of and also to help prevent corrosion of the (now) bare steel.

 

[Yannih]

Thanks guy's.

"After fogging, drain and then use the hoses at the t-stat to refill with non-tox propylene glycol antifreeze to be sure that... any remaining pockets of water are taken care of and also to help prevent corrosion of the (now) bare steel."

Corrosion wise, is this step just as important if your boat is running in fresh water and not salt?

 

[Lazy Daze]

Yes, it's because the metal on the inside of the engine is bare. It's a cummulative effect. The prop glycol stuff has specific corrosion inhibitors in to help guard against that. On your engine... it takes less than 10 minutes to pour 4 to 5 gallons into the system.

 

[Yannih]

Very strange!
After the sound advice here, I looked at who supplied the non-tox propylene glycol antifreeze here and it's no where to be found here.
So I called the two reputable marine workshop/dealerships on why I could not find this marine antifreeze and what they do re winterising their boats.
They advised they use fogging oil, fuel stabiliser, completely draining the system of water, BUT DO NOT REFILL WITH ANTIFREEZE!
So differing views in differing countries.
There's your piece of interesting information for the day...

 

[Lazy Daze]

Some people down here don't use AF, either. It's more a "best practice" thing. It "should be" OK to just drain... but it's "guaranteed" to be OK if you add the AF.

 

[Thornton69]

The shops in these parts will normally use AF in RW systems but won't fog a 4 stroke unless requested when winterizing. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Our boat has a 1/2 closed system and the only thing I do is a 15 flush with fresh water and drain. Boat is trailered so it gets the FW flush after every use.
Probably pushing my luck a bit, but into their 9th season with about 700 hrs on the current manifolds.

 

[Jimmy Buoy]

Completely draining water from the engine will ensure no freeze damage will occur. That being said, how can one be absolutely certain that ALL the water is out of every part of the engine? You can't be certain. That being said, water left in the system that freezes (and expands) as long as there is somewhere for the frozen water to expand there would still be no damage. It's a bit of a gamble - especially the first winter.

Hopefully this explains why most boaters choose to fill their raw water cooling systems once drained with glycol. It might gel at very low temps, but it wont expand and crack things like water would.

The corrosion aspect is yet another reason boaters choose glycol for storage vs letting the bare damp metal sit all winter.

 

[Yannih]

Latest Update.
2 brass adapters were purchased and replaced the 2 metal drain bolts in the block that now allows the blue plastic drain plugs to be utilised instead.
This makes for infinitely easier drain access as getting a spanner into that limited space for the original drain bolts was painful.
It's now extremely easy to access and operate all drain points.
Plus all existing blue plastic drain plugs have been replaced with new ones in case there was any unknown degrading issues with the oldies.
Add fuel additive and fogging the engine and I'm winterised with confidence!

 

[Ericinmich]

I usually put a dab of anti-seize on the bolts before putting them back in.

And then spend the next 2 hours wiping it off every part of my arms below the elbow...