ValvTect is it worth it

Skipper Ness said:
Fellow Sea Ray Owners:
Following is our explanation regarding the poor injector wear test results reported for ValvTect Marine Diesel additive in a non-industry sponsored test mentioned earlier in this blog. I will try to keep it brief and non-technical as possible.

The wear scar test results referred to was a done with the High Frequency Reciprocating Rig (HFRR) test which is a common and standard test to determine wear and anti-wear. This test is mainly used for lubricants , however more recently used for fuels; such as ultra low sulfur diesel with and without a lubricity improver and to test lubricity improvers alone; such as ValvTect VT 101 which we use in ValvTect Marine Diesel additives and Diesel Guard additives sell in the petroleum industry to refineries, fuel marketers and fleets.
While the HFRR test is very accurate to determine the wear scar with and without a lubricity improver, it has been recently found that the presence of cetane improver (2 EHN) in a diesel fuel or diesel fuel additive (and contained in ValvTect Marine Diesel Fuel and additive) masks the effect of the lubricity improver when tested with the HFRR test.

This was determined by a major oil refiner that did an extensive research program and reported the results in a paper presented in October 2009 at a petroleum industry technical conference. The paper reports that cetane improver negatively impacted the wear scar as much as 312mm in the HFRR test. The specific conclusion reported in the paper stated “The HFRR results with fuels containing 2 EHN (cetane improver) are not indicative of the actual performance in real diesel fuel injection equipment”. Thus we refute the results of the test referred to earlier in the blog.

In the same program the refiner determined that cetane improver DOES NOT negatively impact the test results when tested with the Diesel Pump Rig (DPP) test which must be used if cetane improver is presence in the fuel or fuel additive; such as in ValvTect Marine Diesel additive and ValvTect Marine Diesel Fuel.

I must also suggest that the competitive products that claim to contain cetane improver that tested well with the HFRR test may not actually have cetane improver as claimed.

I do suggest that when buying fuel additives it is a good idea to stick with a OEM brand product or nationally accepted product by refiners, fleets, engine manufacturers such as ValvTect.

I hope this clears up this matter and you have confidence in ValvTect Marine Diesel and ValvTect Marine Diesel additive. If you would like a copy of the report referred to, please feel free to contact me at gnessenson@valvtect.com.
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How does your fuel additives react with the new increased fuel pressures of +21,000? Do you see a problem with prolonged idling? We know that prolonged idling with low sulfure fuels have caused injector tip etching. Does ValvTech additives help reduce this affect?
 
Thanks Jerry for your reply.

It does not clarify the lubricity issue for me because I am no petroleum engineer and could not intelligently discuss the different tests discussed above. When one test says it's bad and another says it's good, who here could argue that either test is correct.

With that being said, my take on all this is, most people will probably have good results if they consistently used valvtect or any other additive if it's properly added in the recommended doses. I think the problem is, that is not being done. Most folks use the TLAR method (that looks about right) when adding additives and don't really take the time to do it correctly. And Frank brought up a very good point with valvtect. It is only as good as the marina employee who mixed the valvtect with the fuel. Valvtect has absolutely no quality control after it leaves their facility and the scenario Frank mentioned above is entirely possible.

Frank, a question for you: How do you add your additives, not knowing exactly how much fuel you will take on, and do you add it at the beginning, or mid point of the refueling?
 
timjet,

I do know how much fuel I"m going to take on. I don't know how accurate Cummins fuel burn charts are, but I know how many hours U have run and the approximate average rpms, so I calculate it. Granted it is an estimate, but it is surprisingly consistant and accurate for my boat........last week I took on 206 gal of fuel and estimated 215 gal based on 30 hours of all local use. I figure the amount of all 3 additive needed based on my estimated consumption then add them to each tank BEFORE putting any fuel in the tanks. The additives I use are ones that doesn't matter if the mix is a little heavy according to the manufacturer.

Once again, Frank is the one doing the calculating, measuring and adding............
 
Ok, I fuel up with valvtect diesel. It's at my marina and their fuel is cheaper than anyone around. What should I be adding, if anything? I've been adding stabil diesel additive but now I'm not sure if this is compatible. What I don't get is what am I adding? What's being added by valvtect? And how do I know what I need? I travel all over the place and fuel up where ever I can or need. I'm so confused.
 
Turtlesboat,

You are not alone. I don't believe there is a definitive answer as to what additive is best let alone whether any additive is even necessary. If you look at boatdiesel.com the gold standard for all info about boat diesel engines, the experts there, and there are some very knowledgeable people at boatdiesel.com, don't agree.

I doubt any additive you add will hurt your engine if used according to instructions, but whether you're doing any good, well .............

My concern is fuel injector lubrication when using the ultra low sulfur diesel. Perhaps a lubricant would be advised, but do you even know when you're loading ULSD?

Well gotta go, time to take my centrum silver.
 
Frank,

I just re-read all your posts an you mentioned your marina just switched to ValvTect. Do you use valvtect and add the Diesel Clean and Stanadyne to the valvtect?

Tim
 
I think the real challenge for all of us is figuring out what fuel we are getting.

Microbial growth can occur in any diesel and sludge can be in any storage tank so that is a common element that must be addressed with a biocide. The propensity for microbial growth increases with the presence of water so it isn't just warm climates that you need to think about, but rather the temperature change your tanks get in a 24 hour period. A decent biocide in the correct quantity will handle this part of the additive question.

But, I bet the dockmaster or service manager at your marina doesn't even know what fuel he is selling. Most supply channels have only one set of diesel tanks. They sell far more taxed or on-road fuel than untaxed or off-road fuel. Taxed on-road fuel must be USLD (<15 ppm sulfur); off-road fuel can be LSD (500 ppm sulfur). If the distributor has only one set of tanks, the chances are excellent that he is delivering USLD to your marina. The differences are significant to older diesel engines, anyway.

The process for stripping sulfur out of diesel fuel also removes some of the cetane and reduces the natural lubricity of diesel. Lower cetane has the effect of making engines harder to start, causes increased sooting, and slightly reduced efficiency. On mechanical engines, the fuel passing thru the injectors and the distribution pump is what lubricates them. Reduce the natural lubricity and those parts get significant wear.

Therefore, replacing the lubricity becomes a significant concern.........if you are using USLD, not so much so if you are getting LSD. But, do you know what is in the tank at your marina? The safe course of action is to add a lubricity enhancing additive to your fuel.

The next concern is the wide apparent disagreement contained in the various tests done by the additive makers to support the sale of their products. It seems as though every test you read about, contradicts the last one. I'm not a petroleum engineer or scientist, so my approach is to listen to the guys on the firing line where the rubber meets the road. A Cummins-Onan-Caterpillar dealer here has been using a lubricity additive for several years and his customers who use it have had no mechanical failures due to USLD. That isn't he case with non-lubricity additive using customers...his shop has 12 bays in it and 7-8 of them have Dodge/Cummins/Powerstroke/Duramax fuel related repairs going in in them all the time. This is also a guy who is a certified rebuilder for Bosch, Roosamaster, Stanadyne, Denso, etc fuel pumps and injectors........you get a reman pump or injector in this area and it comes from his shop, even if it is installed by Cat, Cummins, Navistar, or Dodge. I'll believe him before I'll believe what the guys trying to sell me additives say.

That gets us to the last part of the additive picture.......a general additive for dispersing moisture, anti-gel, cetane, stabilization, and detergents.

I prefer to buy and add my own additives so I am sure what I am feeding my engines. I've got 2 Caterpillar engines in the boat as well as 2 Kubotas, 2 Cummins, a Yanmar, a Ford-New Holland, a Mercedes, a GM, and one Lombardini diesel in other applications and all get the same fuel additives. I don't have fuel problems and have not had a fuel system failure, so what I am doing works for me in Tennessee and in Florida.
 
I guess another concern then, is can you over add and could something not be compatible? The Valvtect additive says don't over add. But Stabil says it's OK. Could I add something that is not compatible with Valvtect fuel? It's not like looking on the back of a soup can to see what in there. It pretty much just says "contains petroleum products, dangerous if swallowed". All of the products "say" they do the same thing.

For instance, I added some additives to my 2 stroke dinghy. It had valvtect fuel in the tank and I added some other stuff. I took it out for a run and it was smoking more than normal. Then I saw oil looking stuff in the exhaust. I pulled it out and I had oily "stuff" coming out the prop. I thought the shaft seal went, so I took it apart but it was fine. I burned through the tank and refilled with clean fuel and no additives and everything was normal. I think an additive "bonded" with the 2 stroke oil in the tank and it somehow separated it from the fuel and I was running too rich?
 
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Mike,

The additives I use are labeled that some extra in the fuel won't hurt and that they are compatible with other fuel additives. I can't address what other additive makers restrictions and concerns are. So, I'd say look for those attributes plus the statement that the additive "contains no alcohol".

I have used the Valvetech biocide previously, but I could only get it here by mail order. As long as you use the other additives I mentioned to handle stabilization, cetane concerns, lubricity, etc, then a biocide is a biocide and I get what I need at local outlets.

Our marina pumps about 5000 gal of diesel a week. They have just changed to Valvetech fuel because most customers don't take the time or make the effort to treat their fuel and don't keep their tanks full. They tell me that in the quantities the Valvetech is having them add the biocide, it is a very minimum dose based on their cycling their tanks at a 5000 gal /week rate. For some of us who stay local and don't take regular trips, fuel may sit in the boat's tanks a lot longer than that so you need a regular maintenance dose of the additives. The other problem I have is after the "Valvetech new" wears off, I know that Eugene, the guy that cuts the grass, cleans the restrooms, and dips the tanks will be the one adding the Valvetech additive. So did we get 4500 gal this week or 5500?.......did he dump in the whole bottle? ...or even better, can he compute the additive needed on a 1:1500 ratio? . I doubt it, he has to use a tape measure with only 1/4"s on it.......he can't handle 1/8's" & 1/16's"
 
I know this has nothing to with boat diesels. :smt001

The old timer mechanics are telling !!.
The truckers to put a quart automatic transmission oil in their fuel to help lube the pump & injectors ?? :huh:

Frank, Your thoughts on this ??.
 
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I haven't been adding any biocide to my fuel...yet, I burn through it pretty good. But I did change my filters and they were black. Not sure if the stabil I added broke up any sludge in the tanks.
 
Wayne's World said:
I know this has nothing to with boat diesels. :smt001

The old timer mechanics are telling !!.
The truckers to put a quart automatic transmission oil in their fuel to help lube the pump & injectors ?? :huh:

Frank, Your thoughts on this ??.
Click to expand...


Tranny fluid is a no no anymore. The newer engines with 02 sensors and other electronics do not like it. No we use no ash 2 cycle oil to make up for lubricity removed with ULSD
 
Ok thanks, I emailed that link to my trucker friends. :smt001
 
Frank,

The fuel additives you use: Diesel Kleen has a cetane booster, lubricity improver which it's says is specifically formulated for ULSD and micro-bio inhibitor. The stanadyne is primarily a lubricity improver with some stuff to reduce the effects of old fuel. Your third additive is presumably valvtect which they say has everything. I understand your use of Diesel Kleen, but why are you adding stanadyne when diesel kleen already has the lubricity improver?

Tim
 
Tim,

I use the Stanadyne product because I could not get lubricity data from Power Service. They were helpful, but had no definitive data to tell me how much the diesel Kleen aids lubricity.

The 3rd product I use is Power Service Bio-Kleen biocide, not Valvtect. Our fuel is treated with Valvetect, but from what I understand the amounts they are adding is very minimal. I've been using the PS Biocide for about 10 years in maintenance quantities and have never had a fuel quality problem, so I'm going to continue the same approach.
 
Someone earlier had asked about gasoline engines so I'll hijack for a moment. Here in NY/NJ area, you cannot buy gasoline without E-10, I believe, since around Spring of 2007. It doesn't exist, on land or sea. So we are stuck. I like Old Skool Bill's conspiracy theory as to why they continue to force feed ethanol blending on us - but another part of this policy is to give the appearance of being "green" - not like Kermit the frog, but as in "save the planet" green. But I digress into a borderline political rant - not the time or place.

My old boat has this stiker affixed next to each fuel fill...
100_1187.jpg


What can I do? Nothing - other than keep an eye and ear out for early signs of problems caused by this contraindicated formulation. I have bought into the whole Startron pitch. Maybe I'm a sucker and I have been scoffed at for measuring out the proper dosage and adding it each time I take on gas, but I have had no fuel related problems. Only problem is that I don't know of anyone who has had any fuel related issuess, and I'm the only one of my group that adds this stuff. Placebo effect? Wast of time and a couple of dollars each fill up?? I just don't know. But I've been changing all my filters (5 of them) at the prescribed intervals since the Fall of 2004 - I pour out the contents of each and every filter into a clear container and haven't observed anything different over the years.

I also monitor consumption and calculate mpg and gph after each run over 2 hours. The economy numbers have definitely gone DOWN since the appearance of E-10 but since have levelled off. To me, keeping careful records are important in that you can watch trends over time and changes can signal a problem.
 
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There's no question in my mind that ethanol hurts performance. When I had my dink in FL, I was filling up with ethanol free gas, that sucker flew like the wind. Up here I haven't been able to hit the same speeds.
 
Turtlesboat said:
There's no question in my mind that ethanol hurts performance. When I had my dink in FL, I was filling up with ethanol free gas, that sucker flew like the wind. Up here I haven't been able to hit the same speeds.
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In heavy equipment using bio-fuel we see as much as a 30% drop in performance and 20% increase in fuel consumption. I have used E fuel in Old Skool (for a very short time) and in my auto and the effect was almost identical to what we see in diesel equipment.

BTW it did screw up my carb in Old Skool. The fuel line were not affected that I could tell because I switched back to 100% fuel relatively quick.
 
I used to mix additives into my fuel tank but now I just use Valvtect. I purchase my fuel from a ferry boat dock and they switched to Valtect primarily because they wanted it for their ferry boats. According to their maintenance logs it has been beneficial since they switched about 5 years ago. I am not sure about other marina's but when the fuel truck fills their tank, the driver adds the additives. I have a small fuel tank on my boat so tend to use a tank rather quickly and have never had an issue with fuel and would rather drink a beer than figure ounces per gallons, etc. :)
 
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