Used boat prices go up, Right?

And down here and I will assume in many areas, there are 5x the inventory for a used SeaRay as compared to SOME of the other models. If you have 5% of those sellers wanting to sell quick, this will also decrease the price of a used boat (basically what Scott is saying). When ever you have a mass producer of a product like SeaRay for a luxury item, prices will be low due to the number of boats on the market. Although SeaRay is a good boat, the market is flooded with SeaRay's. Some in great shape, some not but those of you selling a SeaRay that is in great shape have to compete with those that are giving it away. I don't see used boat prices increase for at least another 2 yrs simply because there is the what if factor. Is the economy recovering? They tell us it is but I still know a lot of people and companies are still holding on for the ut oh....here we go again.
 
Mostly every month we receive a letter from some Broker or another asking us to sell our 340 as they state they are in short supply in FL with buyers lined up. No idea how true that is, or the real question of how much they can "give it away for".
 
Remember, brokers only make money when they sell boats whatever the price. They will low ball it just to sell it so they can make money. If they are calling you, they have almost no listings and aren't making money.
 
I think that repo boats are still affecting market prices. As an example, Commonwealth Boat Brokers here in Virginia (near Richmond) has a 2005 320 Sundancer listed for 69,900 on their site. It's missing a genny which accounts for some of the price delta, but not that much. That can't be good for other sellers.

Mike
 
I've maintained for years that the depreciation on new boats amounts to about 10-15% per year for the first three to four years then gradually tapers off after that. People scoff at those numbers but look at what Scott said about his boat....$249 new, half that price just six years later. I doubt I will ever buy a new boat/car/truck/anything because of the inflated prices for new stuff and the huge depreciation hit those items take in the first few years.

I've been looking for a car to buy to keep down at our place in the Phoenix area. Nissan Altimas hold their value pretty well yet 5 year old Altimas can be had for less than half the prices of new one, and those cars often have 50,000-60,000 miles. Those miles cost the prior owner about $15,000 in depreciation cost from what I'm seeing.
 
Dave S said:
In some cases though prices are still "distressed" as far as I am concerned when comparing the price of used boats to comparable new models. My 260DA is a classic example. The current replacement model for my boat is the 280DA. It is the same size as my 260DA, save for a few extra inches in beam. The price of a new 280DA equipped like mine is somewhere north of $160,000. You would think that would tend to drive up the prices of the older models somewhat but I just don't see that happening. My boat is often described by many who see it as the cleanest nicest boat at the Marina. Yet, I doubt I could get more than $50K for it even though it looks brand new.

Dave
Click to expand...
That is a perfect example. Your boat at $50,000 is how much below the original MSRP? The original MSRP is maybe $100,000? So, it depreciated by 50% over 7 years. Maybe less if you look at actual purchase price. A person wanting to buy a 28 foot boat would get a tremendous value buying your nearly new 260.
 
JV II said:
That is a perfect example. Your boat at $50,000 is how much below the original MSRP? The original MSRP is maybe $100,000? So, it depreciated by 50% over 7 years. Maybe less if you look at actual purchase price. A person wanting to buy a 28 foot boat would get a tremendous value buying your nearly new 260.
Click to expand...

BUT! Dave won't sell it for $50,000.00........unless he had a big financial down fall and HAD to take the hit.

I bought my boat (240da) brand new from the same dealer as Dave, in 06. msrp was $97,000.00 (yea I know), Purchase price was $69,000.00. I still owe 56k, financed for 240mos. There is a boat like mine on the market now at 40k......and it hasn't sold. SO what is the value of my boat???????Don't know, but the 50% depreciation is skewed due to the down turn in the economy. So how much would it have devalued with out the economy troubles, who knows. I knew I was going to write a check when I sold it (even in the good economy), but wasn't prepared to take quite the hit it has. It's hard to justify taking the hit, when I had nothing to do with the problems of this economy!!! SO, I keep using it and waiting untill everything calms down, or pricing bottoms out. Then I'll see what I truly lost.

I took about a 40-45k hit on the sale of my house because of this same issue. It's tough to keep being the one covering the losses of the people that walked away or filed for bankrupcy etc etc.
But I guess that's the new norm. Just so long as we don't hold the people responsible for this mess that created it. (read that with much sarcasm)!
 
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islandhopper00 said:
BUT! Dave won't sell it for $50,000.00........unless he had a big financial down fall and HAD to take the hit.

I bought my boat (240da) brand new from the same dealer as Dave, in 06. msrp was $97,000.00 (yea I know), Purchase price was $69,000.00. I still owe 56k, financed for 240mos. There is a boat like mine on the market now at 40k......and it hasn't sold. SO what is the value of my boat???????Don't know, but the 50% depreciation is skewed due to the down turn in the economy. So how much would it have devalued with out the economy troubles, who knows. I knew I was going to write a check when I sold it (even in the good economy), but wasn't prepared to take quite the hit it has. It's hard to justify taking the hit, when I had nothing to do with the problems of this economy!!! SO, I keep using it and waiting untill everything calms down, or pricing bottoms out. Then I'll see what I truly lost.

I took about a 40-45k hit on the sale of my house because of this same issue. It's tough to keep being the one covering the losses of the people that walked away or filed for bankrupcy etc etc.
But I guess that's the new norm. Just so long as we don't hold the people responsible for this mess that created it. (read that with much sarcasm)!
Click to expand...
So look at the opportunity this gives you. Go out and get yourself a '06 340da...that guy took about 4 times the hit you did...you can get sfergs little used boat and be smiling like a chesie cat.:grin:
 
Woody said:
So look at the opportunity this gives you. Go out and get yourself a '06 340da...that guy took about 4 times the hit you did...you can get sfergs little used boat and be smiling like a chesie cat.:grin:
Click to expand...

I definetly feel for thoes that did worse than I did. When compared to some, I just got some minor scrapes, but it still stings never the less.
 
JV II said:
That is a perfect example. Your boat at $50,000 is how much below the original MSRP? The original MSRP is maybe $100,000? So, it depreciated by 50% over 7 years. Maybe less if you look at actual purchase price. A person wanting to buy a 28 foot boat would get a tremendous value buying your nearly new 260.
Click to expand...

The original MSRP on mine was $113K but I also got a terrific discounted deal when I bought it new so selling it for around $50K today wouldn't bother me too much either. Just the same, I would think the market price should be higher because of the substantially higher price on brand new models.

And therein lies the dilemma faced by Sea Ray and their Dealers in today's market as long as used boat prices remain relatively low. Many informed buyers, who may have bought new in the past, now looks for a used boat first. So the number of customers buying new is greatly reduced or they have been steered away from fiberglass to a Pontoon Boat for example http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/compo...4-features/524711-the-newly-cool-pontoon-boat. Dealers have to survive on lower sales (units sold) so the substantial discounts many of us got several years back are no longer available either (for certain models) .

The only way I see used boat prices improving is when scarcity of a particular used boat model becomes an issue. 260DAs like mine are a dime a dozen so to speak with many available on the market (making me agree with Frank's observation that condition is of prime importance). The same is true of many other Sea Ray models from years past such as 240SD's from 2000-2008 which are also bargains in the used boat market.

Might the re-sale price of my boat be even less if the prices of new boats was still "reasonable"? I think so. But if that was the case then both Sea Ray and their Dealers would both be doing a lot better with the sales of new fiberglass boats.

Dave
 
It may vary area to area but generally speaking I believe the big factor is buyers. The why of it is another discussion but it appears there are less. After this many years we have plant closings, reshuffles for different markets, and lots of used boats for sale. The price for used boats isn't going up unless the demand does....my .02
 
I looked for a boat for the last four years while getting lots of advice from the great people here. Using Frank's,Trit, Dave, Nehelana's and others that escape me at the moment great advice it became apparent to me that used would not work for our purchase. The used market price had moved in lock step with the advancing new prices and in some cases had exceeded new prices. Patience is your best friend in this game. It is still possible to do very well in the new market depending on what you are looking for.

Once you decide what you want then get lots of advice from people you trust. This is where I say thank you to all of the people that helped. THANK YOU!!! Also be patient as time will change your desires. We stalked our current boat for nine months before we were able to close the deal. Make sure you cover all of your bases and everything will be fine. Never trust anything a salesperson says. Pick your price and stick with it if you can support your position with facts. Things will come together
 
All of this and yet the County where my boat is berthed, sends my annual tax bill and it's about $70,000 more than last year. They say they are re-appraising all boats due to an increase in value. Now I am going to have to pay for an in the water survey to appraise it! I told the auditor that I will discount the $211K they are saying the boat is worth by 10% and it's his. Freaking ridiculous to try and explain the difference between depreciating assets and appreciating assets to a bean counter!
 
All this is simple supply and demand. No matter how long a seller holds out it is rare a buyer will pay significantly more than market for the vessel. As for where are the buyers, I ask, where's the money?

The past marine bubble was financed on low rates and easy loans, it is over. With so many with credit blemishes from the downturn combined with tight lending standards many used boat buyers today have few options other than cash. Remember, if you bought a boat in 02-08 time frame you were competing in the market with what we now call "unqualified buyers" and they raised everyone's purchase price and killed your value when they dumped what they could not afford.

A recent Trade Only article elaborates on this with insight from Don Parkhurst, senior vice president of marine and RV finance at SunTrust Bank.

"Those built prior to 2009 took such a resale price hit that several of the people who own them are still upside down on their loans, Parkhurst says. “That’s still a problem. A dealer’s got to work the fact that these guys are upside down on their loans and they’re going to have to bring cash to the table to make a trade-up deal work,” he says. “We see a lot of people who are in denial about the current value of the boat they own.”

The stock market, the housing market and the boat market got hit about 35 percent after the financial collapse. The difference is that the stock market came back. “Boat values are never coming back,” says Parkhurst. “If you’ve got a boat built in 2010 or 2011, those are fine. It’s the pre-2009 vintages that are the problem, and that’s why you haven’t seen the sales.”

If you own a pre 09 vessel the deprecation curve coupled with the economic downturn has permanently lowered the value and nothing short of a miracle will bring it back.

http://www.tradeonlytoday.com/compo...res/525966-a-no-mans-land-in-big-boat-lending

MM
 
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