Upgrade my 280 to a 330?

[Turtlesboat]

it's a stupid move.

 

[Henry Boyd]

it's a stupid move.

While I might have stated it a bit more diplomatically (maybe not), I happen to agree. I believe he is talking about the 'old' model designation and not the absurd new system SR has implemented.

Based on some of Bport's other posts it is clear he already does a fair amount of weekend cruising with his 280. In my mind the 330, is just not that big enough of a size jump. The 330 is a fine boat, but it is just very close to what he already has.

I did a quick search of our local dealer's inventory of used boats, and there are a number of larger and possibly better equipped vessels listed for the same money as the listing price on a new ('08 leftover inventory) 330.

Henry

 

[skolbe]

He is referring to an 08 - 330 (2010 - 350) with 8.1's and V-drives. I disagree that it is not much more boat. Compared to a 40' plus with diesels - it is not much more boat. But that may not be what he is looking for. Going from a 260 to 320 was a very nice move for us. I have had the boat for 3 years. If you can buy an 08 - 330 right - and it is what you want to own - go for it.

 

[JV II]

He is referring to an 08 - 330 (2010 - 350) with 8.1's and V-drives. I disagree that it is not much more boat. Compared to a 40' plus with diesels - it is not much more boat. But that may not be what he is looking for. Going from a 260 to 320 was a very nice move for us. I have had the boat for 3 years. If you can buy an 08 - 330 right - and it is what you want to own - go for it.

Agreed. It is 50% more boat by displacement. Four ft more LOA, two ft more beam That's a reasonable upgrade, while still efficient on fuel, dockage, and storage.

 

[douglee25]

It's really going to depend on what the owner wants in his next boat, if his marina can accommodate something bigger than 33', budget, etc.

Theoretically speaking, 28 to 33 is not a big jump. Yes, you gain some size, but after you sit on a 33, go sit on a 37', then sit on a 40'. Now sit back and tell me what is a reasonable size jump for the next boat. I think you'll agree the 33' will seem small after only a short while.

Doug

 

[Alex F]

I concur, I started at the 28-29 foot, looked at 31, then almost bought a 34, until I looked at a 37 footer, from there it was 36, 37, to what I ended up buying. I would say at a minimum look at the 34's.

I also agree that 280 to 330 is not the most logical move. However, the answer to original question has number of variables. Assuming that there's a budget limit I can suggest (as many others did) go lightly used and get 30%-40% more of a boat for the same money. For example, what you spend on new 330 it could get you very nice and fresh 400, 410, or even 420. I'm sure it's hard to disagree that there's a huge difference on what you get in return in my example.

 

[JV II]

I also agree that 280 to 330 is not the most logical move. However, the answer to original question has number of variables. Assuming that there's a budget limit I can suggest (as many others did) go lightly used and get 30%-40% more of a boat for the same money. For example, what you spend on new 330 it could get you very nice and fresh 400, 410, or even 420. I'm sure it's hard to disagree that there's a huge difference on what you get in return in my example.

I would argue that if the budget is the constraint, for the same money a 280 owner would be better off upgrading to a new warrantied 330, than an older 400, 410, or 420. Over the first several years, the savings in storage, repairs, and docking would be substantial. My added concern would be an unexpected major repair item on an older boat. At least with the new boat you would have a warranty. Having gotten used to the expense of boating with my 290, the jump to a 330 did not add any burden to my budget. $160/yr more for docking, $160/yr more for winter storage, a few bucks more for shrink wrap and waxing. On a used 400-420, multiply those figures time three, add in the premium for diesel winterizing, add in a small budget for replacement items, add the additional fuel cost if you stick with gassers, and plan on some out-of-pocket repairs and you've got a situation that does not fit well with the budget comfort zone you have become accustomed to in your 280.

I would love nothing more than to have a DA > 40' or a DB. You have to factor in the budget. How can you enjoy a boat if you constantly worry about the money you are spending on it?

Back to the size discussion. If you have "gotten used to" the size of the 280, then going to a 330 provides you with more than enough room. Anything less than a 30' boat has a family of 3 tripping all over each other and their stuff. Going above 30' adds an amazing amount of room to walk by each other and store your belongings. We can go on a week long tip in our 330 and not have a single personal item or provision in view. Everything stowes. Even the canvas! On the 290, it was very different.

 

[dpmulvey]

bport,

You have a PM.

 

[comsnark]

I would argue that if the budget is the constraint, for the same money a 280 owner would be better off upgrading to a new warrantied 330, than an older 400, 410, or 420. Over the first several years, the savings in storage, repairs, and docking would be substantial. My added concern would be an unexpected major repair item on an older boat. At least with the new boat you would have a warranty.

Not sure I buy that argument. I would suggest that the capital savings to be seen with the older boat could easily finance even an unexpected repower project. With proper surveys and seatrials, the risk of such a major unexpected expense should be pretty low.

As for the incremental costs of dockage, fuel, winterization, with a bigger boat I believe those are real factors.

 

[Woody]

I would argue that if the budget is the constraint, for the same money a 280 owner would be better off upgrading to a new warrantied 330, than an older 400, 410, or 420. Over the first several years, the savings in storage, repairs, and docking would be substantial. My added concern would be an unexpected major repair item on an older boat. At least with the new boat you would have a warranty.

Not sure I buy that argument. I would suggest that the capital savings to be seen with the older boat could easily finance even an unexpected repower project. With proper surveys and seatrials, the risk of such a major unexpected expense should be pretty low.
As for the incremental costs of dockage, fuel, winterization, with a bigger boat I believe those are real factors.

I think you missed the important part.

 

[Alex F]

I would argue that if the budget is the constraint, for the same money a 280 owner would be better off upgrading to a new warrantied 330, than an older 400, 410, or 420. Over the first several years, the savings in storage, repairs, and docking would be substantial. My added concern would be an unexpected major repair item on an older boat. At least with the new boat you would have a warranty. Having gotten used to the expense of boating with my 290, the jump to a 330 did not add any burden to my budget. $160/yr more for docking, $160/yr more for winter storage, a few bucks more for shrink wrap and waxing. On a used 400-420, multiply those figures time three, add in the premium for diesel winterizing, add in a small budget for replacement items, add the additional fuel cost if you stick with gassers, and plan on some out-of-pocket repairs and you've got a situation that does not fit well with the budget comfort zone you have become accustomed to in your 280....

Well, this is the reason why I said "...the answer to original question has number of variables." You're bringing up very valid point of operational and maintenance cost, which are the part of what I meant as variables. Most folks and I were pointing out the purchase aspect to start with. So, let’s take a closer look at your point. In the current trend of the market a new boat could potentially loose up to 50% of the value. So, let’s take a number $230K assuming that it's close enough to get you nicely equipped new 330DA. In two years you just lost $115K. That my friend is a huge chunk of money that can repair lots of things on larger few years older boat, pay for a lot of storage and fuel. Now as far as the fuel cost, as you may know, diesel boats have a reputation not just for being reliable but also economical. A real life example, majority of 320s burn about .75MPG (depending on different factors the number can be .8 or .9 in the beginning of the season), so I consider true and realistic number .75-.8, now compare to 410DA that burns 1.1MPG or better, that is a big savings. So stating that having bigger boat will cost you more to operate is not always true. Storage, if you pay $3000 for the season for 280DA you’ll pay $4200-$4500 at the same place. That’s only $1500 extra. I say only $1500, b/c we’re using the potential allowance of $115K from above. When talking about maintenance that’s also depends on a lot of factors. But, in general diesel boats are known to require less maintenance.

We can have this debate for days and we both could be right and wrong, but in the end it comes down to what works best for individual family. That’s why the answer to this big and very general question always starts with “IT DEPENDS…..”

Lastly, to underscore my previous post and others suggesting go used and bigger comes down to expressing an opinion based on experience from moving up. The biggest ticket item will still remain the purchase price. So, when someone moves up it simply shows the sign of desire for what other folks have been through several times. If you can see yourself in 40’+ yacht, then if you take one big step now will save you lots of money in the long run comparing to the scenario when you jump to 330, then to 380/390 and only then to 420/440.

 

[bport]

Our situation fits the 'it depends' category. Kids are gone and we generally cruise alone or with another couple at most. The occasional bigger party for a day cruise as well. Henry is right - we do some longer cruises - and more stability when the waves come up would be a plus.

I gravitate to the new boats because of the warranty security even though I realize you pay through the nose for it. For me, the extra money is better spent on the security of knowing I won't be tied up in repairs for a chunk of the season.

Again, thanks for the advice.

 

[trit21]

A real life example, majority of 320s burn about .75MPG (depending on different factors the number can be .8 or .9 in the beginning of the season), so I consider true and realistic number .75-.8, [/FONT][/COLOR]

Alex, if you are only getting .75-.8 to be a realistic number for fuel burn on your 320, you are not doing the correct maintenance. I clean the bottom, props and do maintenance the entire year any my fuel burn is above .85-.9 most all the time with wind and current factored out of course. Actuallly, I get about .92 when first cleaned and at the end of the month before cleaning about .89 or so. You are not doing enough maintenance.

 

[JV II]

I don't see anything stupid about supporting and promoting Sea Ray and its dealer network. If you think it is unwise to buy a new boat, then maybe more dealerships should close and more manufacturers should disappear taking with them a few marinas and more West Marine stores. It seems that any time the topic of whether to buy a new boat comes up, everyone discourages the buyer. When someone wants to buy a used boat everyone encourages the buyer to low ball the seller. With attitudes like that, we are all going to get extinction of the brand and we'll be driving Chinese boats, built in America.

I did my part to support Sea Ray and my dealer by buying 2 boats in the last 2 years. I continue to promote the brand and my dealer. I can't do it alone. I'm done buying for a while. Let's try to refer some people to buy new boats and keep the brand alive.

 

[JV II]

Ah! the misery loves company strategy! I'm in....

(I love my boat, very much so. But if I knew what the market was going to do, I would have run screaming)

That sounds to me like you have some regrets.

Misery? Find one of my 1366 posts that express any misery or regrets. I loved my 290 and love my 330 even more. My slip neighbor traded his '06 260 for a new '08 310 last season. He's got a permanent smile. Its a lifestyle and a passion and it comes with a cost. New boat, used boat, its a depreciating asset. Some people spend tens of thousands a year on a country club or mistress. We like boating.

I lost 20% of the purchase price on my '07 290 when I traded it in '09. I got the 330 at a substantial discount. The purchase price was certainly within the range I see today for used '08 330s. If I bought a used boat for the same price, I doubt I would have lost less than 20% over 2 years. I also would not have been able to buy the new or used boat until I unloaded my old boat. The dealer made that all happen and I am grateful and another satisfied customer.

 

[Alex F]

Alex, if you are only getting .75-.8 to be a realistic number for fuel burn on your 320, you are not doing the correct maintenance. I clean the bottom, props and do maintenance the entire year any my fuel burn is above .85-.9 most all the time with wind and current factored out of course. Actuallly, I get about .92 when first cleaned and at the end of the month before cleaning about .89 or so. You are not doing enough maintenance.

Tom,
I get .9 at the beginning of the season. Last spring my props were tuned 100% by very good local shop. My engines run to the specs and overall performance is to the specs. As I get to the middle of the season I start to see .8 more and more. I use the boat every weekend so my bottom is very clean. As the end of the season approaches I see .7-.8, the only bottom build up I get is the thin layer of slime, which I try to clean as much as I can. Even though, I can't get it to exact the same condition as the bottom was right before the splash it's still stays in very good condition. When the boat was pulled out of the water for winter storage the yard guys said that it's one of the cleanest bottom they worked on.

Aside from regular maintenance I'm planning to change the plugs, caps, rotors. Oil change and fuel filters were done as part of winterizing. Theoretically, I see no reason as my engines run up to specs, but I do it to stay in pro-active preventive measures mode. I wonder if it'll make difference in fuel burn numbers.

Do you have any other suggestions?

 

[trit21]

I think the slime might be the problem. Even though it is a clean bottom or maybe one of the cleanest, I can notice the difference in the performance after my diver cleans the bottom of mine the very next weekend. He is only cleaning slime off most of the months here but (depending on temp of water of course). The 320 needs a very clean bottom. Even a little bit of bottom growth, slime, will tend to drag the boat down. My neighbors even notice this with his 2007 340 and other have told me the same with DB's in our marina. Bottom can never be to clean. We pay our diver $32 every month to dive her. Since he does my dock neighbor and a bunch up and down our dock and in the marina, he can afford $32 per boat. $1/ft to dive, clean, shaft, rudders, props, entire bottom and report problems if any.

 

[trit21]

I did better than 1.0 in my 2003 320DA, so it appears you aren't doing enough maintenance either. :grin: In fact, my 340 averages the same as your 320, so you'd better get scrubbing some more! :smt043:smt043

Ok, are talking averages or on plan MPG? Because there is a difference. My numbers are on plane, salt water, off shore typically have waves and current. Not sure where your numbers are or if you talking average of idle time and on plane numbers. But your numbers line up with other 340 we go out with, maybe a little higher but pretty much in line. We can go about 150miles / fill up.

Edit: Oh yeah, these are not numbers from Smartcraft. We use the fuel burn and GPS speed to figure out MPG. Seems smartcraft MPG numbers are way off for some reason. Not sure why but they are always way off.

 

[trit21]

I know of about 5 people in this area that own the 320 and yours is the first I have seen with number like that. Ours are all accurate to each other, these numbers are approx. of course. 28GPH at 25-26 mph, approx. .9MPG. No one in this area(that I know of anyway) or anyone I have talked to that own a 320 (model year from 2004-2007) get numbers that you have posted. Not saying you are wrong, not saying we are wrong, just posting what we see. If your numbers are correct, then a 200 gallon tank, figuring 10% safety just like boattest does, you would be able to travel 198 miles before you need fuel. Even boattest states 160-170 miles and you know high they state numbers. Something isn't adding up. ???

 

[skolbe]

I can get around .95 in the right conditions.