UPDATE - MARCH 2024 - Increasing Agreed to Value on Insurance Policy

[Maybe A Dancer]

Two weeks away from the 2 year anniversary of my current insurance policy with GEICO.

I had been a Boat US/Current Underwriter client for 25+ years. (and yes, Richard Schwartz is likely turning over in his grave for what has been done to the organization he started, but so is Walt Disney....)

I digress, bear with me...

Anyhow, 2 years ago I was able to insure this vessel - 1996 450DA for an agreed to value of $141,200 and to my surprise, (ready for this.....) NO SURVEY WAS REQUIRED !

I've made numerous improvements and additions to the old girl, and I believe I would be hard pressed to find one in the same condition as this one for $141,200.

It is also doubtful, EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL I could find a decent example, and refit THAT one into the same condition as mine for a total combined outlay of $141,200.

My concern is not the nickel and dime claims. I only seek to insure against a catastrophic loss.

Lightning strike/fire, marina/fire, hurricane, submerged object sinking, etc.

This vessel went through THE EYE of Hurricane IAN, properly stripped, prepped and spiderwebbed in the canal behind my home, with zero, yes ZERO DAMAGE. (although I'm still finding leaves and debris wedged into the most unusual places)

Back to the topic: I contacted GEICO MARINE today, to see about increasing the agreed to value, and was told $101,000 - $111,000 was the max agreed to value they would insure her for, however the current policy and value do remain in effect.

I was expecting them to tell me I'd need a current survey to get that value increased, which is doable as she's coming out of the water next month for a bottom job, however with such a huge drop in parameters, I think it's unlikely even with a survey to get her insured for anything more than the current amount.

These mid 1990's vessels are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

I'm guessing that this is the shape of things to come, as a result of last years damage.

I do understand that maintenance and returning to baseline type of repairs do not increase her value, but electronics, flooring, soft goods, and equipment upgrades do or should.

After I paint the engine room floor, she will absolutely show as new, both inside and out.

This is NOT an exaggeration.

Guess I don't expect any solutions, however any advice would be appreciated.

BEST !

RWS

 

[highslice]

Two weeks away from the 2 year anniversary of my current insurance policy with GEICO.

I had been a Boat US/Current Underwriter client for 25+ years. (and yes, Richard Schwartz is likely turning over in his grave for what has been done to the organization he started, but so is Walt Disney....)

I digress, bear with me...

Anyhow, 2 years ago I was able to insure this vessel - 1996 450DA for an agreed to value of $141,200 and to my surprise, (ready for this.....) NO SURVEY WAS REQUIRED !

I've made numerous improvements and additions to the old girl, and I believe I would be hard pressed to find one in the same condition as this one for $141,200.

It is also doubtful, EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL I could find a decent example, and refit THAT one into the same condition as mine for a total combined outlay of $141,200.

My concern is not the nickel and dime claims. I only seek to insure against a catastrophic loss.

Lightning strike/fire, marina/fire, hurricane, submerged object sinking, etc.

This vessel went through THE EYE of Hurricane IAN, properly stripped, prepped and spiderwebbed in the canal behind my home, with zero, yes ZERO DAMAGE. (although I'm still finding leaves and debris wedged into the most unusual places)

Back to the topic: I contacted GEICO MARINE today, to see about increasing the agreed to value, and was told $101,000 - $111,000 was the max agreed to value they would insure her for, however the current policy and value do remain in effect.

I was expecting them to tell me I'd need a current survey to get that value increased, which is doable as she's coming out of the water next month for a bottom job, however with such a huge drop in parameters, I think it's unlikely even with a survey to get her insured for anything more than the current amount.

These mid 1990's vessels are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

I'm guessing that this is the shape of things to come, as a result of last years damage.

I do understand that maintenance and returning to baseline type of repairs do not increase her value, but electronics, flooring, soft goods, and equipment upgrades do or should.

After I paint the engine room floor, she will absolutely show as new, both inside and out.

This is NOT an exaggeration.

Guess I don't expect any solutions, however any advice would be appreciated.

BEST !

RWS

I have seen policies that insure electronics over and above the standard package and agreed value. Having a sport boat, I don't have enough electronics to justify. Plus, my agreed value is so far over the boat's current value I could replace it with one 8 - 10 years newer. But for you guys with cruisers carrying radar, multiple MFDs, autopilot, etc. I can see it being worth exploring.

 

[Stee6043]

You can add riders to your yacht policy to cover electronics and other upgrades. You don't necessarily have to increase the agreed value.

I added a $16k dinghy on to my yacht policy as an accessory. Cheap and easy...

 

[Blueone]

Two weeks away from the 2 year anniversary of my current insurance policy with GEICO.

I had been a Boat US/Current Underwriter client for 25+ years. (and yes, Richard Schwartz is likely turning over in his grave for what has been done to the organization he started, but so is Walt Disney....)

I digress, bear with me...

Anyhow, 2 years ago I was able to insure this vessel - 1996 450DA for an agreed to value of $141,200 and to my surprise, (ready for this.....) NO SURVEY WAS REQUIRED !

I've made numerous improvements and additions to the old girl, and I believe I would be hard pressed to find one in the same condition as this one for $141,200.

It is also doubtful, EXTREMELY DOUBTFUL I could find a decent example, and refit THAT one into the same condition as mine for a total combined outlay of $141,200.

My concern is not the nickel and dime claims. I only seek to insure against a catastrophic loss.

Lightning strike/fire, marina/fire, hurricane, submerged object sinking, etc.

This vessel went through THE EYE of Hurricane IAN, properly stripped, prepped and spiderwebbed in the canal behind my home, with zero, yes ZERO DAMAGE. (although I'm still finding leaves and debris wedged into the most unusual places)

Back to the topic: I contacted GEICO MARINE today, to see about increasing the agreed to value, and was told $101,000 - $111,000 was the max agreed to value they would insure her for, however the current policy and value do remain in effect.

I was expecting them to tell me I'd need a current survey to get that value increased, which is doable as she's coming out of the water next month for a bottom job, however with such a huge drop in parameters, I think it's unlikely even with a survey to get her insured for anything more than the current amount.

These mid 1990's vessels are at the bottom of the depreciation curve.

I'm guessing that this is the shape of things to come, as a result of last years damage.

I do understand that maintenance and returning to baseline type of repairs do not increase her value, but electronics, flooring, soft goods, and equipment upgrades do or should.

After I paint the engine room floor, she will absolutely show as new, both inside and out.

This is NOT an exaggeration.

Guess I don't expect any solutions, however any advice would be appreciated.

BEST !

RWS

I have a lot of friends in Florida including those that went thru Ian. Everyone devalues their boats to even get insurance and self insures the balance. At least you get something

 

[Golfman25]

I have been with BoatUS insurance for 20+ years. The switch to Geico was interesting.

My previous boat, they wanted a survey when I bot it -- It was CNA at the time I believe. And we insured for that value. Several years ago, Geico reduced my agreed value by a few thousand. On my new boat, they picked a value out of thin air, that was greater than what I paid for the boat.

I feel, Geico is simply an out of the book insurer. They look at their "book" and that's what the asset is valued at, thus that is what you get. Maybe try a different insurer and see what happens.

 

[PlayDate]

I was with GEICO for two years after they picked up BoatUS. I never have had a claim.....ever. Yet, a close read of their contract depreciates just about everything on the boat so they don't pay for anything new. My slip mate hit rocks on his 15 year old Four Winns and tore up his stern drives. New drives cost $12K a piece and GEICO would only give him $4k for each. That is a teachable moment.......insurance companies are in the business of making money not paying it out.

I'm with Progressive now. I have been a USAA member since I was 18 so it was an easy switch. Agreed to value for my 1994 370 EC is $75k (I paid $110k for it 23 years ago) which is okay but not great. The biggest part of insurance expense is the $500k liability policy the marina requires to slip there.

 

[Stee6043]

I was with GEICO for two years after they picked up BoatUS. I never have had a claim.....ever. Yet, a close read of their contract depreciates just about everything on the boat so they don't pay for anything new. My slip mate hit rocks on his 15 year old Four Winns and tore up his stern drives. New drives cost $12K a piece and GEICO would only give him $4k for each. That is a teachable moment.......insurance companies are in the business of making money not paying it out.

I'm with Progressive now. I have been a USAA member since I was 18 so it was an easy switch. Agreed to value for my 1994 370 EC is $75k (I paid $110k for it 23 years ago) which is okay but not great. The biggest part of insurance expense is the $500k liability policy the marina requires to slip there.

I increased the liability limit on my marine policy to $1M after learning about the expense associated with cleaning up after a boat fire. $500k is not enough. Based on what I've learned directly from two people that dealt with it, the $1M on my marine policy combined with my $1M executive umbrella would barely cover a typical fire and what follows (cleanup).

 

[PlayDate]

I increased the liability limit on my marine policy to $1M after learning about the expense associated with cleaning up after a boat fire. $500k is not enough. Based on what I've learned directly from two people that dealt with it, the $1M on my marine policy combined with my $1M executive umbrella would barely cover a typical fire and what follows (cleanup).

That is a lot of money. Not a winter goes by where a boat doesn't burn at one of the upper Potomac marinas. Usually DC fire shows up with their fire boat and the boat sinks from the water they pour on at the slip.

The booms and containment items show up and within a few days and they either refloat it (to take to a travel lift) or bring in a lifting barge. I could see the lifting barge getting expensive or damage to the docks...but $1M is a lot of money for maybe 5 days of work.

 

[Stee6043]

That is a lot of money. Not a winter goes by where a boat doesn't burn at one of the upper Potomac marinas. Usually DC fire shows up with their fire boat and the boat sinks from the water they pour on at the slip.

The booms and containment items show up and within a few days and they either refloat it (to take to a travel lift) or bring in a lifting barge. I could see the lifting barge getting expensive or damage to the docks...but $1M is a lot of money for maybe 5 days of work.

I was also surprised to hear how expensive it was. But the story was compelling enough for me to spend a couple hundred more per year for a little more coverage...

 

[Richard Carlisle]

...but $1M is a lot of money for maybe 5 days of work.

The environmental cleanup is what runs up the tab. Removing the boat is a fraction of the cost.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

UPDATE:

Contacted GEICO to add the new HIGHFIELD CL 310 & 20 HP Tohatsu.

No big deal, $25 additional.

The next question was to add a BAHAMAS ENDORSEMENT.

No big deal, 120 day maximum per policy period and must provide departure and return dates.

Also, need a current survey, in or out of water - no big deal.

Cost for a two week adventure $22 - OUTSTANDING.

Here's the kicker:

If your boat is 30 years old or older- FUGGETABOUTIT !

So, I'm good through next year.

Could always find a new carrier.

My own dilemma: Boat is insured for $141,200.00 - - - - -AGREED VALUE

I'm Florida based and UNWILLING TO GIVE THIS UP.

Looks like I'll absolutely be doing a once in a lifetime Bahamas trip in 2025, unlikely to return.

Are there any other options?

BEST !

RWS

 

[ttmott]

UPDATE:

Contacted GEICO to add the new HIGHFIELD CL 310 & 20 HP Tohatsu.

No big deal, $25 additional.

The next question was to add a BAHAMAS ENDORSEMENT.

No big deal, 120 day maximum per policy period and must provide departure and return dates.

Also, need a current survey, in or out of water - no big deal.

Cost for a two week adventure $22 - OUTSTANDING.

Here's the kicker:

If your boat is 30 years old or older- FUGGETABOUTIT !

So, I'm good through next year.

Could always find a new carrier.

My own dilemma: Boat is insured for $141,200.00 - - - - -AGREED VALUE

I'm Florida based and UNWILLING TO GIVE THIS UP.

Looks like I'll absolutely be doing a once in a lifetime Bahamas trip in 2025, unlikely to return.

Are there any other options?

BEST !

RWS

Welcome to the Florida club. Talk to State Farm - they started writing yacht policies.

 

[Stee6043]

UPDATE:

Contacted GEICO to add the new HIGHFIELD CL 310 & 20 HP Tohatsu.

No big deal, $25 additional.

The next question was to add a BAHAMAS ENDORSEMENT.

No big deal, 120 day maximum per policy period and must provide departure and return dates.

Also, need a current survey, in or out of water - no big deal.

Cost for a two week adventure $22 - OUTSTANDING.

Here's the kicker:

If your boat is 30 years old or older- FUGGETABOUTIT !

So, I'm good through next year.

Could always find a new carrier.

My own dilemma: Boat is insured for $141,200.00 - - - - -AGREED VALUE

I'm Florida based and UNWILLING TO GIVE THIS UP.

Looks like I'll absolutely be doing a once in a lifetime Bahamas trip in 2025, unlikely to return.

Are there any other options?

BEST !

RWS

Any other options? Yes, self insure

 

[Golfman25]

I didn't have any issues with Gieco/BoatUS on my 40 year old Chris Craft. They took my money every year.

 

[Maybe A Dancer]

Renewal or coverage based on age is not the point.

Let me be clear.......

The issue is not size or age for coverage.

The issue is 30 years old and older..... NO BAHAMAS RIDER AVAILABLE.

Unlikely I'll be able to get insured elsewhere with a similar agreed to value, however come renewal time, I'll most certainly be checking.

BEST !

RWS

 

[ttmott]

Self insure isn't an option either - you will require liability ($500K minimum) to be in any marina or for a yard to haul the boat out. We put into a marina for a couple of nights and they required proof of liability insurance.
I looked into just liability and self-insure but no carrier would do just a liability policy. Lability using an umbrella policy is a dead end also - you'll require a base policy then an umbrella can extend coverage....
There are four things in Florida that will determine insurability - Length, Age, Claims within 5 years, and Captain/Owner experience/qualifications.
I had Geico and Progressive on my 400DA but they wouldn't cover the 52DB because (they said) their coverages cut off at 40 feet in length. This was six years ago.

 

[bbwhitejr]

Had been with BOATUS on our 2006 260DA and our 2007 44DB. Insurance was with Safe Waters. They initially insured our 2003 420DA, but after one year with it, Safe Waters got out of the insurance business, at least on boats. The best thing BOATUS could come up with was $2400/year on a freshwater inland lake. Progressive did it for $1750 no survey and no questions asked at an agree value for 20% more than I paid for it. Last May, new owner having a devil of a time with his insurance and moving the boat to Deerfield Beach, FL. Told him to try Progressive. Did it all over the internet, no haul out and no survey needed on 20 year old boat.

Try Progressive.

Bennett

 

[GypsmJim]

I have been with BoatUS for about 20 years. Four boats, four policies - boats ranging from 5 to 9 years old. All were bought new and they have had the insurance since the beginning.

I just got my PWC renewal this week. It went up 41%. I searched around and got a quote from Progressive for 1/4 the cost. Same limits. Seems too low to be correct. When I called Geico they said it was no mistake.

Now I don't know what to do.

 

[highslice]

I have been with BoatUS for about 20 years. Four boats, four policies - boats ranging from 5 to 9 years old. All were bought new and they have had the insurance since the beginning.

I just got my PWC renewal this week. It went up 41%. I searched around and got a quote from Progressive for 1/4 the cost. Same limits. Seems too low to be correct. When I called Geico they said it was no mistake.

Now I don't know what to do.

I have been with Progressive for 14 years. Never more than a 4 or 5% increase, sometimes none. That said, I have not had a claim with them.

 

[PlayDate]

Renewal or coverage based on age is not the point.

Let me be clear.......

The issue is not size or age for coverage.

The issue is 30 years old and older..... NO BAHAMAS RIDER AVAILABLE.

Unlikely I'll be able to get insured elsewhere with a similar agreed to value, however come renewal time, I'll most certainly be checking.

BEST !

RWS

That is interesting. They will insure your boat but won't give you a Bahamas rider if the boat is 30 years old. I wonder if they know something we don't know. Certainly they have a reason for not taking your money for the rider.

The only reason I can think of is that boats older than 30 years (not just Sea Rays) have a higher sink rate crossing the Gulf Stream than boats of a lesser age. Either than or somebody drew a line to reduce a perceived risk.

I doubt the Bahamas care one way or another.