Unauthorized 260 Sundancer Thread ('09-'13)

[fezh]

This is hardly an "Official" thread, just a mail drop for owners of the current (2009 - 2013) version of the venerable SeaRay 260 Sundancer. Actually, the current version was first introduced in 2009 as the 250. It morphed into the 260, with no changes that I can see, in 2010. Only cosmetic changes since. It will be interesting to see if SeaRay discontinues the 260 next year, after a 5-year run, in favor of the sexier, lighter 265.

An unapologetic "bubble boat", like most of its SeaRay cousins, the 260 is a scaled-down pocket version of the bulkier 280. Our "Desperado" is a 2010 model, with the spoiler (radar arch) option and the 350 Mag engine. There are just 2 of us now, so the 260 is plenty of boat. We spend most of our time on Lake Champlain, with extended cruises into Canada via the Chambly Canal.



I think the 260 has some attractive features. Here's my list:

- Compact, trailerable size. But at 7000 lbs dry weight, you'll need a lot of beef to tow this bad boy very far.
- Bubble-boat design means a deep, wide, buoyant bow, unlikely to bury itself in a big wave.
- Plenty of stowage, including a transom locker. Open lockers under cabin seats are convenient and easy to access. No-nonsense clothes hanger post avoids the bother of opening a hanging locker door to get your oilskins. This boat rarely stands on ceremony.
- Relatively easy access to what the boat industry likes to call the "mid-cabin". Since I'm 6' 1", I think that's a bit of an overstatement. But it's a nice, big, padded storage area or space for a couple of smallish kids.
- Nice power-panel/locker design on the port side in the companionway, easily accessible from the cockpit.
- Dedicated steps to the foredeck - you don't have to slam shut the companionway hatch to get up there in a hurry.
- Spacious, reasonably level foredeck with comfortable non-skid surface for bare feet.
- Unique cockpit seating is comfortable and user-friendly. Lots of nice places to set your beer. 6 seated passengers tend to list the boat to port, though. The trim tabs come in handy.
- 2-foot draft with the drive up. I like to anchor in shallow water with a sandy bottom. I usually overshoot and have to walk the boat back to deeper water, with the anchor line over my shoulder like Humphrey Bogart in The African Queen.
- Manageable camper campus with help from the arch. A big improvement over the rubber/groove design on my old '98 250. I'm still a fan of the thoughtfully-included canvas instrument panel cover though, unless a deluge is in the forcast.
- Excellent (luxurious even) access to the bilge/engine compartment.
- Sensible nighttime configuration. Mounted on the spoiler, the masthead light doesn't shine in your eyes.
- Heavy, capable plow anchor conveniently mounted. Better pop for the optional windlass, though.

A mixed blessing - the boat weighs in at a hefty 7000 pounds, plus fuel, water, gear and crew. That's about 1500 pounds heavier than my old 250 and 1400 more than the new 265 model being introduced this year. That extra weight, though, gives the boat a certain gravitas that is lacking in lighter boats. She cuts through rough water a little more authoritatively, and several of our friends have commented that the 260 was "more boat" than we've had before. It feels like a bigger, more capable platform.

Now let's be honest here. Nobody on this planet makes a perfect boat. Even our good friends at SeaRay can sometimes seem a little brain-dead on some of the details. I'm hoping this thread will not only identify little puzzlements, but also offer suggestions for "shipalts" and workarounds to solve them.

Boating experiences with the 260, funny or otherwise, are always welcome.

Now, if the ice will only go out on Lake Champlain...

 

[Nehalennia]

Welcome aboard. Yes, SeaRay certainly mized things up after the '05-'08 260DA. The 270, 280 and 260 got quickly confused and what the 260DA became was more like an older 240DA.

Anyway, all that matters is you like it and have a great time.

 

[fezh]

I get a kick out of the BoatTest.com test results. Test conditions for the 260 with a 350 Mag are 2 crew, 1/4 tank of gas, no water, "minimal" gear, and a glassy, no-wind surface. Lessee now, if we top off the tanks and bring a sandwich:

20 gals of water @ 8.33 lbs = +166 pounds
56 gals of gas (3/4 tank) @ 6lbs = +336 pounds
9 gals (1/2 full) of holding tank goodies = +72 pounds.
"Reasonable" gear, including food, drink and maybe an anchor = I dunno, 150 pounds?

Weight of these additional items comes to about 725 lbs, quite a difference from the BoatTest conditions.

In my world (350 Mag), with gas, water, equipment, 300 pounds of people, enough tailwind to ruffle the water, and a reasonably clean bottom, Desperado comes out of the hole quickly with the trim tabs full down and settles onto a plane at about 20 knots. In smooth water, she'll hold the plane at 3600-3700 RPM. I trim the boat by raising the tabs so I cruise with them mostly down.

I'm into fuel economy, so I keep her just on the edge. She'll tend to slip off the step if I don't keep an eye on the tach. Fuel consumption runs 10.5 - 11.5 gals/hour at the above rpm, depending on how committed I am to the process. Not bad for a 7500 lb. cruiser, IMHO.

On a full power trial, loaded up with a clean bottom and ruffled water, Desperado cranked about 38 knots. BoatTest got to 42.7 with their mini-load. Personally, I find top-end results to be of academic interest only. 20+ gallons/hour is too much cash burn for my budget.

Standard power for the 260 is a 260 hp MPI. If I had that engine, I'd plan to travel light.

I'd be interested to see results from others.

 

[MonacoMike]

Why not make this an official thread?

MM

 

[DTW]

Just upgraded to a new 2011 260 from a 2002 240. Dealer still had new one in inventory. Bought the boat in October after a few trials on a small lake in Ohio. Will use the boat on my home lake (Alum Creek) near central ohio as well as Lake Norman in NC and Lake Cumberland. The boat seem seems a little larger than my 240 but not a whole lot. It is pretty much fully loaded except for a generator. The one item on my upgrade list is an extended swim platform, but have yet to find someone able to do one for this model. If any one has done one formodel years or 2009-2013 please let me know.

 

[MonacoMike]

Just upgraded to a new 2011 260 from a 2002 240. Dealer still had new one in inventory. Bought the boat in October after a few trials on a small lake in Ohio. Will use the boat on my home lake (Alum Creek) near central ohio as well as Lake Norman in NC and Lake Cumberland. The boat seem seems a little larger than my 240 but not a whole lot. It is pretty much fully loaded except for a generator. The one item on my upgrade list is an extended swim platform, but have yet to find someone able to do one for this model. If any one has done one formodel years or 2009-2013 please let me know.

This company will make one for you, they probably have not made a template yet. They are former Sea Ray employees that started this company. I love mine.

http://www.swimplatforms.com/

MM

 

[jrseitz]

HI DTW, I am from Powell and Alum Creek was my old stomping grounds. I had a 240 DA for 6 years on that lake. I have a swimplatform.com swim plat form on my 2008 260DA and I love it. They are a little pricy but the quality is excellent!

 

[Giles91]

I have the 2010 model - and I agree mostly with the pro-list. Overall we're very happy but when we take the in laws our (4-6 additional adults) we usually need one in the cabin to have any chance of getting on the plane (350 Merc). We got lucky on price and bought at an auction for a silly low price (by Aussie standards). We've had 35 knots on mirror water and with 4 adults and 2 kids on board, 20 knots on the plane as quoted seems high to me, I think we're hit planing at about 17-18 knots, we're almost always up above 22-24 at 3500rpm.

The only mods we have done are barwork on the back, and some electrical stuff (TV, spotlight, lighting etc). The barwork we had made with a bend in it, so that it doesn't take up swim platform space, we were going to extend the platform but this was a cheap workaround and works for us. We're about to put some Weaver davits on the back to carry the dinghy - access to the underside of the platform in the engine bay makes this a DIY job. Would love to put a shelf in the engine bay to carry the portable generator our outboard during transit.

Before anyone reads the next bit, I love my boat, I love the lifestyle it brings and enjoy nothing more than hanging out with friends and being on the water.

My biggest gripe and the one that will probably mean we change out the boat is the handling. Ours has a tendency to list to starboard and in even minor chop I find this very disconcerting, especially as when speed increases so does the list. I would love someone to tell me how the trim tabs work on this boat (I know the principles) but all the arrows and controls on the dash seem to be ass about. I've hung over the back and watched them but by the time I get back to the dash I'm second guessing myself as to what did what and testing on open water just adds to the confusion. And would dearly some idea on the dash as to what position they're in (although knowing what switch does what would help).

 

[kaz911]

My biggest gripe and the one that will probably mean we change out the boat is the handling. Ours has a tendency to list to starboard and in even minor chop I find this very disconcerting, especially as when speed increases so does the list. I would love someone to tell me how the trim tabs work on this boat (I know the principles) but all the arrows and controls on the dash seem to be ass about. I've hung over the back and watched them but by the time I get back to the dash I'm second guessing myself as to what did what and testing on open water just adds to the confusion. And would dearly some idea on the dash as to what position they're in (although knowing what switch does what would help).

It is very easy once you get the hang of it...

If boat lists to starboard - press the PORT button UP in short bursts of 1-2 seconds. Wait for a bit for the boat to stabilize - then add more bursts of 1 second presses until boat does not list. Never press for longer than 2 seconds - trim tabs takes a bit of time to push their way into the water - so patience is the key.

Get used to when coming of the plane - to press both trim tab "lower" buttons for a bit to retract them. Then you won't get surprised next time you try to bring it on the plane and it suddenly tilts a lot.

So in short - if boat is listing - press the "upper" button OPPOSITE to where the list leans to.

It is not intuitive at all - but everybody can learn it.

 

[Giles91]

Thanks kaz911 - now I'm all excited again :smt038

That is non-intuitive. So as I get it from your post: starboard list, press the button that indicates what will happen is port bow (the bit of the boat currently highest) up.... (Must be because I'm in the southern hemisphere and thinking upside down :grin

Out of interest, are all boats set up the same way?

 

[kaz911]

Thanks kaz911 - now I'm all excited again :smt038

That is non-intuitive. So as I get it from your post: starboard list, press the button that indicates what will happen is port bow (the bit of the boat currently highest) up.... (Must be because I'm in the southern hemisphere and thinking upside down :grin

Out of interest, are all boats set up the same way?

Yes I guess they are. That is tradition for you - keeping it "counter intuitive"

You can get Bennett Auto Trim tab system for $300-$350. Installation takes about 2 hours if you are "mechanically inclined and have full color vision" - that will keep you level automatically if your trim tabs are large enough. But Sea Ray has a tendency to put to small tabs on. So check with TabMan in the Trim Tab forum - he works for Bennett and give 110% good advice and support.

 

[fezh]

No doubt about it, this 260 model needs trim tabs like sailors need grog. You can see why by looking at a picture of the boat on plane coming right at you. There's a whole lot of fiberglass up out of the water, balanced on a slim 8'6" (trailerable) beam. Keeping her trimmed is a constant, but satisfying, challenge.

Trim controls counter-intuitive? That's an understatement. Paradoxically, the port trim tab control operates the starboard trim tab and vice-versa. But watching some beer-guzzling lubber bounce merrily along with a 15-degree list was incentive enough for me to learn the art. A salty old laker at the dealer showed me how to sort it out in my head.

Think of the boat as an airplane and think of the trim tabs operating together for the moment. Pushing forward on the airplane stick (pushing the top end of both trim tab rockers) pushes the nose (bow) down, as if into a dive. Pulling back on the stick (pushing the bottom end of the trim tab rockers) pulls the nose (bow) up, as if into a climb.

Now separate port from starboard. The port side trim tab control brings the port side bow up or down; starboard control does the same to the starboard bow. You can visualize what's happening with the tabs themselves back aft.

With an unfamiliar load, I usually start out with both trim tabs full down to get her out of the hole quickly, then bring the low side up. It's easy with 2 crew, a little more fun with 4, and downright challenging with 6. Excellent point by kaz911 - trim her a little at a time, especially at high speeds.

I think 6 is a lot of beef for the 260, but I haven't had to move anybody into the cabin to plane her out. Putting the big guy (there's always a big guy) in the port side companionway well, keeping my wife at my side at the helm, and clearing out the aft seating has done the trick so far.

With a load of 6 or more, I'm tempted to bump along at 1800 rpm and let Uncle Charlie steer for a while. More passengers mean more risk of somebody doing something unwise. I remind new passengers of the old Navy adage - "one hand for the ship and one for yourself."

In practice, I adjust the trim every time I change course, whenever my wife strikes below, and whenever some restless passenger decides to examine the wake from a new perspective. I'm cheap. Keeping her upright improves efficiency and keeps her looking sharp.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[indeep]

I have a 2011 that we got last June to replace our 2004 240da. Feels like a much larger boat than it really is, I guess because of the added weight. My only grip is the seating in the cockpit, More comfortable seating for passengers in the old 240 when under way but this boat is much more comfortable while on the hook and socializing. All in all we love the 260 think the ride is much more smooth compared to the 240.

 

[fezh]

I have a 2011 that we got last June to replace our 2004 240da. Feels like a much larger boat than it really is, I guess because of the added weight. My only grip is the seating in the cockpit, More comfortable seating for passengers in the old 240 when under way but this boat is much more comfortable while on the hook and socializing. All in all we love the 260 think the ride is much more smooth compared to the 240.

I agree with you about the seating. What seems luxurious in port has some practical issues once you leave the dock. Luckily, there's usually one guy who wants to stand in the companionway well, and another that wants to stand on the centerline behind the helm, gripping the arch with both hands. That takes a little pressure off the seats, but it's still a trim challenge.

Lake Hopcatong looks beautiful, and a good size for a 260. Do you anchor much in breezy conditions?

 

[indeep]

I agree with you about the seating. What seems luxurious in port has some practical issues once you leave the dock. Luckily, there's usually one guy who wants to stand in the companionway well, and another that wants to stand on the centerline behind the helm, gripping the arch with both hands. That takes a little pressure off the seats, but it's still a trim challenge.

Lake Hopcatong looks beautiful, and a good size for a 260. Do you anchor much in breezy conditions?

Yes we do, but instead of the plow anchor we use a box anchor. Hold so well the boat never moves, we have to watch for everyone else moving towards us.

 

[fezh]

Yes we do, but instead of the plow anchor we use a box anchor. Hold so well the boat never moves, we have to watch for everyone else moving towards us.

Whoa! I hadn't seen that box anchor design before. Looks like a great solution.

Desperado, like most modern power boats and a surprising number of sailboats, weaves back and forth at anchor in a breeze. As the wind picks up, so does the angle. In a good breeze with some scope out, she will sail off to one side, then turn almost 180 degrees and go back the other way. This works the plow anchor, and also chafes the anchor line on the anchor chute. I've been looking for a solution.

A light stern anchor works well if we're in shallows, but is hard to set in deeper water. I haven't tried setting up the aft camper canvas sides as a steadying sail, but I will this year. I'm not optimistic. I've heard that keeping a short scope helps control the swing so I like your box anchor approach. I'm kind of stuck with my plow, though. It came with the windlass, chain, chute and all.

If anybody has figured this one out, I'd love to hear about it.

 

[indeep]

I leave the plow anchor on the windless. We deploy the box anchor by hand and just tie it off to a bow cleat. Works great!

 

[indeep]

Where do you store your cockpit table when not in use? My 240da had dedicated storage for it but I cant seem to where it would store on this boat.

 

[fezh]

Where do you store your cockpit table when not in use? My 240da had dedicated storage for it but I cant seem to where it would store on this boat.

Both the table and leg have dedicated stowage in the storage compartment under the forward center section of the V-berth, but it's not obvious. I wish the boat were uncovered so I could take a pic.

Inside that storage compartment, there are 2 clips on the after bulkhead that hold the table leg - it just snaps in. The table itself fits into wooden brackets on the bottom of the compartment. It fits in fore and aft, with the leg holder fixture upward, at maybe a 30-degree angle. The forward end is the high end, but I don't recall which end of the table is forward and which aft. It'll be obvious if you fool around with it a while.

I hope this helps.

 

[fezh]

I leave the plow anchor on the windless. We deploy the box anchor by hand and just tie it off to a bow cleat. Works great!

Which size box anchor are you using? I think there is only one manufacturer. It would be my third anchor on board this boat but, whatever it takes...