Turning But not Starting...

[DCarl320]

Okay here is the situation, I replaced my impeller, and then the engine wouldn't turn over. Checked the battery, got a couple of jump chargers, checked spark it was fine. But still nothing.

Gave the boat to the local shop and they checked the fuel pump, they said the cylinders were wet, they dried them out changed spark plugs and told me they had it running. It sat for two weeks and I changed the oil, waited another week and a half and put it in the water..... And... Nothing!!

The engine still cranked, had spark, we used ether but still no light off. Pulled a couple of plugs and they looked dry. But the mech had them back in before I could get a real good look at them (to see if they had been used).

The guy I bought the boat from is fairly livid, as the same shop jacked up a trailer repair that they charged him $500 for, and then said it wasnt their fault. I wish I had spoke to him first.

Has anyone had this issue or can tell me something else to look for? The boat hasnt been out in almost 5 months and the shop asked me when was the last time I had it out, what a laugh. I told them that they were the last to allegedly hear it run.

 

[r_moss]

Someone might have yanked your chain....er, the safety lanyard thing-a-ma-jig. Try resetting that.

I guess I don't understand why you don't use your boat. The only thing harder on a boat that does not get used would be hitting one of those dang wing dams on the ol Mississippi River.

Nut & Honey gets winterized tomorrow. I am depressed already!

Come on April 15th..........

Good luck on getting her started.

 

[DCarl320]

Thanks R-moss, I didnt know there was a lanyard, I will look into that. Any idea where I can find it? As for the downtime, it wasnt by choice, been working harder than a one armed paper hanger on the weekends, coupled with the maintenance issues.

Not to brag but, "whats winterizing?" :grin: We have two seasons "nice" and "hot as heck", and we are just getting to the "nice" season. :thumbsup:

 

[wish2fish]

I don't know if the 98 had a lanyard, but mine has the switch but the lanyard is not connected. The lanyard/switch is located on the throttle controls.

I'm a little confused. did you take the boat back to the mechanic the 2nd time? you mention "the mech had them back in before I could get a real good look at them" which makes it seem like another visit. If so, he didn't get it running the second time?

 

[techmitch]

i see yours is a 98, but just so you know my 99 does not have a lanyard.

 

[Nehalennia]

i see yours is a 98, but just so you know my 99 does not have a lanyard.

It may not have the lanyard hanging there but it may have the switch. Double check. It should be on the bottom left of your throttle controls.

Maybe with twins the controls don't ?

 

[techmitch]

not on mine!!!

 

[Beer Thirty]

If you've got spark then the lanyard/kill switch isn't the problem. Atleast on mine the kill switch kills the 12v power to the coil.

Are the plugs wet with water? I hydro-locked my engine a few weeks ago and even after i got the water out it was still a pain to get started. the cylinders were still alittle wet. I killed both batteries before i got it to start. after that it was fine.

What method are you using to confirm you have spark?

 

[DCarl320]

Wish - I called them while I was sitting on the courtesy dock playing with the batteries. They keep a mech on call during the weekend. Then I had the marina drop my boat back over there. BTW, just got off the phone and they still dont have it started.

Nehalennia/Wish - Now I remember the "kill switch" on the Throttle (I dont use it, should I?), but there isnt a lanyard. I also thought this killed the spark.

Beer - I went old school, pulled the plug boot and held it near the engine. I did think about fumes but the hatch had been up for over an hour. Then on Saturday the mech used a spark tester. From what I saw the plugs looked dry, but the guy was moving pretty fast and I was at the helm looking over his shoulder.

The guy who sold me the boat said he will take a look when he goes to return the trailer they botched to his customer. He said they should have just put it on the scanner.

 

[PlayDate]

They should have put it on a scanner ....period.

What is strange is that it didn't light up on the ether. The ether eliminated the fuel system as the starting problem (and you said it had spark). The only way ether doesn't work with spark is if the timing is waaaayyy off or the compression is really low. The scanner resolves the first issue and a compression test resolves the second.

-John

 

[Beer Thirty]

If it has spark and ether it "should" atleast pop or act like it wants to start. hmmm

Does fuel squirt into the carb when you move the throttle? or excuse my ignorance but when did they switch to fuel injection? What kind of fuel pressure are you getting?

Was anything major done since the last time you drove it?

 

[wish2fish]

My lanyard is in the glove box. Switch still there!

go back and check the connections on all the plugs/coil. Maybe something is loose since you checked.

 

[DCarl320]

Yeah I havent gotten that far, but Im pretty sure its injected. Funky little intake grill on the front, I keep leaving my torx at home so I cant take the cover off.

The more I think about it, I need to pull all plugs and spin it, that will give me 2 things, ensure fuel in the cylinders and I can do a compression check. I am thinking that the injectors may not be working, which is probably an electrical issue. Does anyone know of any connections on the harness I can check?

 

[Nehalennia]

.....Nehalennia/Wish - Now I remember the "kill switch" on the Throttle (I dont use it, should I?), but there isnt a lanyard. I also thought this killed the spark..........

Yes the kill switch kills the spark to your engine. The Switch should be on the lower left of your throttle controller and since you have a single engine I'm sure you have one.

Make sure it's in the up position. It may have been bumped and causing your issue. I hope that's all it is.

Best of luck

 

[Mike-n-Jolie]

The fact that it supposedly has spark and won't start on ether is troubling. An IC engine needs fuel,spark and compression to run(I know,I'm over-simplifying).

If it hydrolocked,it may have pushed some water into the intake. Even though the plugs were replaced etc.,it may still have some water puddled in the intake. When the pressure drops in the intake(cranking/running),the water tends to find its way back into the cyls. and can create a high voltage shunt across the plug gap(effectively creating a no spark inside the cylinder even though you have good spark at the boot).
Unfortunately,the magic 8 ball,diagnostic dartboard or whatever your mechanic is using may not find the problem.

Do a compression check. If an engine isn't mechanically capable of running-it won't. Doesn't matter how much spark and combustible material you've got. Or you can get a vacuum guage and do a cranking vac. test. Attatch to a manifold(unported) vac. source,block the air inlet and crank the engine. A healthy small block will pull 8-12 in Hg while cranking(at least). If you've got no vac-valve timing is off or something catastrophic has happened.

Use a spark checker,not a screw driver. Look for 30-45 Kv available voltage at the plug. A weak ign. may look fine using the screwdriver but not be able to jump the gap across the electrodes when cyl. compression pres. is factored in. If your secondary output is weak,work backwards through the system until you find out where the voltage drop is.

As for fuel,if its carbed,remove the flame arrestor and crank the engine with no throttle for about fifteen secs. Then look down into the throttle bores and gag the throttle one time. Should see a nice stream from the accel. pump. If not,work back through the fuel system. If its injected,well you may want to get a pro involved. If you want,you can go to an auto parts store and buy a fuel pres. guage kit and a noid light kit. Check for proper fuel pres(check manual). Plug the noid light into one of the injector conns. and crank the engine. If the light flashes,you have inj. drive(may not be correct on time but they are being driven).

I don't like the idea of ether,especially on a boat. If cam timing is off and you load it up then get a backfire-it could get ugly real quick. Please use caution if you try this stunt again.
Good luck and hope this helps.

 

[DCarl320]

Thanks all, thats why I love this place :grin: . I just came back from picking up the boat an they hit me for $109 just to stand and scratch their a** err ah heads, yeah heads.

Oh well lesson learned, DIY till they day I die, or find someone I can really trust.

 

[Mike-n-Jolie]

Thanks all, thats why I love this place :grin: . I just came back from picking up the boat an they hit me for $109 just to stand and scratch their a** err ah heads, yeah heads.

Oh well lesson learned, DIY till they day I die, or find someone I can really trust.

Yup,DIY FTW. However,some things are beyond DIY. That is when it pays to have a relationship with a GOOD mechanic. Sounds like your um mechanic(term used loosely) can't even see the dartboard.:smt009:smt013 Head so far in the derrier and no glass belly button to see out of.

And, I'm sorry but,I disagree with taking a vehicle for a "diagnosis",paying someone a bunch of money and not having concrete answers. No accurate diag., no soup for you!

 

[Nehalennia]

....... And, I'm sorry but,I disagree with taking a vehicle for a "diagnosis",paying someone a bunch of money and not having concrete answers. No accurate diag., no soup for you!

Yeah, no clear answer, no cash. Period. I'm a service manager for my company. We will either figure it out, or no charge. IN locks and security it's different gear, but the same "mystery" can be seen by the customer. If I tell you it's $100+ and I still can figure out why your key/ access card doesn't work....that's a black eye on me.

Go get your money back

 

[Mike-n-Jolie]

Yeah, no clear answer, no cash. Period. I'm a service manager for my company. We will either figure it out, or no charge. IN locks and security it's different gear, but the same "mystery" can be seen by the customer. If I tell you it's $100+ and I still can figure out why your key/ access card doesn't work....that's a black eye on me.

Go get your money back

I concur. Its one thing to sell more diagnostic time if you can build a case and have a CLEARCUT direction to go in(has good spark,has 50 Ms inj. pulse, no cranking vac.,need to tear down and check cam timing/lifter preload etc.). Its another to charge someone $100.00 or whatever and say "I dunno,maybe it needs a timing chain". And then have them throw a timing chain at it and it still doesn't even cough. Sloppy diagnosis really rubs me wrong. Unfortunately,this is often how it goes. I would say that sub par mechanics outnumber competent techs by about 20:1. And,what really kills me is:most educated people would happily pay a hefty premium to have a really competent tech work on their rig,they just can't find one.:smt009