Trip Marina Breaker

Sindbad

Sindbad

Member
Apr 11, 2010
218
North Channel
Boat Info
340 Sundancer 2006
390 Sundancer 2005
44 Sundancer 2006
Engines
8.1L Horizons (2006)
8.1L HO (2005)
Cummins QSC 500 (44 DA, 2006)
Connected to marina power, line 2 electrical feed no problem, line 1 trips marina system. All breakers are off. Tried several power cords, no luck. Michigan began installing these GFI systems in all state marinas a few years ago. I understand the threshold is quite low to trip the system; some boats in marina have same problem, others do not. I can only run line 2. Any ideas appreciated.
 
I have no idea....but, I have an electric smoker that I bring to the dock 3-4 times/year. It will trip every GFCI receptacle that it is plugged into whether it is plugged into my boat or the power pedestal. Plug it into a non-GFCI receptacle and never an issue. It has been this way for 3 years. I have checked every connection and wire and all good.

Bennett
 
Sindbad said:
Connected to marina power, line 2 electrical feed no problem, line 1 trips marina system. All breakers are off. Tried several power cords, no luck. Michigan began installing these GFI systems in all state marinas a few years ago. I understand the threshold is quite low to trip the system; some boats in marina have same problem, others do not. I can only run line 2. Any ideas appreciated.
Click to expand...
If the marina's GFP circuit breaker is tripping due to ground fault and not overcurrent and your power cord is not connected to the boat but connected to the pedestal then there is either a current leak to ground at the receptacle or within the power cord. As you have tried several power cords then an issue exists within the marina's circuits. If the power cord is OK not connected to boat but trips the OFCI then it's narrowed to the boat as the problem. If connected to the boat and the boat's main circuit breaker is off yet still the OFCI trips then probably a corrosion issue in the receptacle where the power cord connects to the boat - If you do a search in this forum there are many instances of corrosion in that receptacle causing a host of issues.
 
ttmott said:
If the marina's GFP circuit breaker is tripping due to ground fault and not overcurrent and your power cord is not connected to the boat but connected to the pedestal then there is either a current leak to ground at the receptacle or within the power cord. As you have tried several power cords then an issue exists within the marina's circuits. If the power cord is OK not connected to boat but trips the OFCI then it's narrowed to the boat as the problem. If connected to the boat and the boat's main circuit breaker is off yet still the OFCI trips then probably a corrosion issue in the receptacle where the power cord connects to the boat - If you do a search in this forum there are many instances of corrosion in that receptacle causing a host of issues.
Click to expand...
ok. The power cord receptacle does not show any corrosion. I will continue searching for the issue.
 
Sindbad said:
ok. The power cord receptacle does not show any corrosion. I will continue searching for the issue.
Click to expand...
Did you pull the receptacle out of the boat and look behind it where the boat's wiring connects? That is where most have their issues.
 
ttmott said:
Did you pull the receptacle out of the boat and look behind it where the boat's wiring connects? That is where most have their issues.
Click to expand...
Yesterday I pulled the receptacle out and examined the backside; no apparent corrosion or any other issues. When I plug in power cord to this line, it trips the marina breaker. I can run power to the other line with no problem.
 
Sindbad said:
Yesterday I pulled the receptacle out and examined the backside; no apparent corrosion or any other issues. When I plug in power cord to this line, it trips the marina breaker. I can run power to the other line with no problem.
Click to expand...
Does it then trip the marina's breaker when the main circuit breaker in the boat is off?
 
Sindbad said:
Yes.
Click to expand...
There then appears to be a fault / leakage between the boat's shorepower receptacle and the boat's main circuit breaker.
In case you don't know the marina's OFCI measures current between the Hot (black) conductor and Neutral (white) conductor and expects to see equal current flowing on both. If there is an imbalance of 30ma or greater it will trip. That's not much. I would guess somewhere in that conductor between the boat's shorepower receptacle and main circuit breaker that the neutral wire is grounded....
 
We had this issue at Leland Harbor and the marina plugged its pigtail into the pedestal our power cord into the pigtail. Problem solved. We noticed a number of boaters had the same problem and all were solved using this approach. I have no idea why it worked but it solved the breaker tripping problem.
DSC00399%20copy.jpg
 
ttmott said:
There then appears to be a fault / leakage between the boat's shorepower receptacle and the boat's main circuit breaker.
In case you don't know the marina's OFCI measures current between the Hot (black) conductor and Neutral (white) conductor and expects to see equal current flowing on both. If there is an imbalance of 30ma or greater it will trip. That's not much. I would guess somewhere in that conductor between the boat's shorepower receptacle and main circuit breaker that the neutral wire is grounded....
Click to expand...
Ok. Then I should try and follow the wire from receptacle to breaker? What am I looking for?
 
GFI and RCD require that no power flow thru the ground wire (30miliamp max)
As described before if it trips with main breaker off some power is returning via the green ground wire
Most often corrosion between hot and ground simple dirt or corrosion on the plastic can do this clean it anyway
Electrical cleaner spray
But also be sure the white and green are not reversed at the plug
If all looks good see if you have a galvanic isolator device between the plug and the breaker (small box in the ground wiring)
Older or failed can leak power from a neighbor boat through your ground wire
GFI trips can be a pain to track down
Can also be generator or invertors they must break the white and ground connection when on shore power

Bbw
That electric grill is it three prong?
Household appliances often have ground and neutral tied together in the appliance
It should not be but non marine devices often do it
 
sbw1 said:
We had this issue at Leland Harbor and the marina plugged its pigtail into the pedestal our power cord into the pigtail. Problem solved. We noticed a number of boaters had the same problem and all were solved using this approach. I have no idea why it worked but it solved the breaker tripping problem. View attachment 89135
Click to expand...

To be honest this scares the hell out of me, I’m retired USCG Machinery Tech I know the proper wiring and functions
Unless this pigtail has a big isolation transformer in line there is no simple pigtail that will solve a ground fault
The only way this could work is by disconnecting the ground wire in the pigtail to stop nuisance complaints
That would be extremely foolish you lose you ground safety on the boat
If it reverses the ground and neutral its a band aid
The boater owners should fix the issue on the boat
 
IMG_5596.JPG
hughespat57 said:
To be honest this scares the hell out of me, I’m retired USCG Machinery Tech I know the proper wiring and functions
Unless this pigtail has a big isolation transformer in line there is no simple pigtail that will solve a ground fault
The only way this could work is by disconnecting the ground wire in the pigtail to stop nuisance complaints
That would be extremely foolish you lose you ground safety on the boat
If it reverses the ground and neutral its a band aid
The boater owners should fix the issue on the boat
Click to expand...
There were no identifiable issues on our boat. It was not modified in any way once it left the factory and the issue was unique to Leland Harbor. No other harbors presented the same problem. What's a person to do? Stop visiting Leland?
 
Thats a tough call, its a matter of your family’s safety
If you’ve been to other marinas with new gfi pedestals and had no issues that would make me feel better about your boat
Still makes me worried about what they are doing
As i said tracking down this problem is a pain and often takes a good MARINE electrician which are few and far between
Commercial electricians rarely understand marine vs building grounding systems
 
hughespat57 said:
GFI and RCD require that no power flow thru the ground wire (30miliamp max)
As described before if it trips with main breaker off some power is returning via the green ground wire
Most often corrosion between hot and ground simple dirt or corrosion on the plastic can do this clean it anyway
Electrical cleaner spray
But also be sure the white and green are not reversed at the plug
If all looks good see if you have a galvanic isolator device between the plug and the breaker (small box in the ground wiring)
Older or failed can leak power from a neighbor boat through your ground wire
GFI trips can be a pain to track down
Can also be generator or invertors they must break the white and ground connection when on shore power

Bbw
That electric grill is it three prong?
Household appliances often have ground and neutral tied together in the appliance
It should not be but non marine devices often do it
Click to expand...

Yes, three prong plug....it used to work fine with a GFCI first 2 years or so....last 2-3 years trips it after coming on in about 30 sec-1 min...

Bennett
 
Sindbad said:
Is an isolation transformer an alternative?
Click to expand...
Sure - my boat has a large isolation transformer but it doesn't resolve the issue that exists on the boat. That is you have current leakage either to the ground conductor or leakage to the boat's bonding system and to the water. You really need to find the issue and correct it; just because it trips a 30 milliamp ground fault safety device doesn't mean your problem is not much more significant and a safety hazard. FYI your galvanic isolator does not have anything to do with a ground fault situation; all that device does is prevent low level current (cathodic) from passing to the marina's ground system and thus prevent the metals in the water from disappearing.
A couple of things to look at -
Disassemble that shorepower receptacle, clean it, strip back the wires, and reassemble with di-electric grease.
Make sure the boat's main circuit breaker is switching both the neutral conductors as well as the hot's. As a point of information your generator bonds the boat's ground, bonding system, and neutral so it is necessary to switch the neutral off that bond when on shorepower.
 
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