Top 5 Problems with the Tax Deal

yeah, take this Mr. President

fdec43b6.jpg
 
rondds said:
This from the mouth of your President...

"I am absolutely convinced that this tax cut plan, while not perfect, will help grow our economy and create jobs in the private sector," Obama has said. "It will help lift up middle-class families, who will no longer need to worry about a New Year's Day tax hike. ... It includes tax cuts to make college more affordable, help parents provide for their children, and help businesses, large and small, expand and hire."

You blindly follow all his other mantras like sheep, why do you stop believing now?

Obama the centrist??? or is he up to something???? Don't worry liberals. This is tantamount to raising the price of gasoline from $2/gallon to $5/gallon and then dropping it drops back to $3.50. All the stupid people breathe a sigh of relief and lose sight of the real problem. It's a ruse. The only way to save ourselves is to make Obama a one term-er.

Regarding the estate tax, I could NEVER swallow the concept that taxes were paid on that fortune throughout the deceased's life - why is it again taxed at death? Double taxation is typically illegal, unless it's proposed by the government.

F.I.C.A is a legalized Ponzi scheme. Leave me out of it, I say. Let me save for my rainy day myself. I can certainly manage the 12.4% better than any bureaucrat.
Click to expand...
Some say it’s a tax not on the wealth of the deceased but on the income of the heirs. The IRS has this opinion,

Estate Tax
The estate tax is a tax on your right to transfer property at your death. It consists of an accounting of everything you own or have certain interests in at the date of death.
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=98968,00.html

How’s that for raising the blood pressure.
 
Heck, you can't even give someone money without being subject to a tax. Pretty soon we'll be taxed on Christmas. "Hey little Timmy, did you pay your gift tax on that train set Santa gave you?"
 
Semantics. They twist words to justify this pitiful practice of double taxation.

Mike, you made me think of the poor game show contestant who just won the showcase showdown. The winner has to pay the sales tax on the items b/c the game show did not. They don't tax the gameshow AND the contestant. Why? B/C the concept of double taxation is not supposed to be in our vocabulary.
 
We have already been through this once. Estates typically include assets that have SIGNIFICANT *unrealized capital gains*. Tax defered accounts, like annuities, are also common.

Using this logic. . .one certainly could NEVER collect property taxes. My "property", which was bought and paid for with taxable income generates a fresh tax bill every year; and the property is going DOWN in value every day.

Say what you want about the estate tax. . there are certainly many reasons you can criticisize it, but calling it simple "double taxation" paints an inaccurate picture.
 
AKBASSKING said:
LOL I will have to admit to you the Alaskan legislature looked pretty stupid (most were Dems at the time).

The earmark was removed which would have made the money go only to the bridges and nothing else.

Yep, Uncle Ted got the money anyway and gave it to the dems in Alaska without the strict requirement. Not much got funneled to the bridges.
Click to expand...

I thought the Republican governor backed most of these dem shenanigans?
 
comsnark said:
We have already been through this once. Estates typically include assets that have SIGNIFICANT *unrealized capital gains*. Tax defered accounts, like annuities, are also common.

Using this logic. . .one certainly could NEVER collect property taxes. My "property", which was bought and paid for with taxable income generates a fresh tax bill every year; and the property is going DOWN in value every day.

Say what you want about the estate tax. . there are certainly many reasons you can criticisize it, but calling it simple "double taxation" paints an inaccurate picture.
Click to expand...
Not the same, the property taxes are in theory a fee that can be charged for the sevices, etc that are provided to you.
 
comsnark said:
We have already been through this once. Estates typically include assets that have SIGNIFICANT *unrealized capital gains*. Tax defered accounts, like annuities, are also common.

Using this logic. . .one certainly could NEVER collect property taxes. My "property", which was bought and paid for with taxable income generates a fresh tax bill every year; and the property is going DOWN in value every day.
Click to expand...

It is hard for me to believe that this really isn't a "rob the rich and give to the poor" program (by the way, Robin Hood is banned in our home). If it is JUST about a fair sharing of unrecognized capital gains, then a simple approach is to change the rules regarding a stepped up basis at death on property and make IRA "distributions" (not inheritance transfers) taxable to any recipient. By keeping the basis, you don't trigger an immediate tax sale, but the contributing component remains...you don't have to add a 35%-55% hit on the entire estate. Those two changes are simple, and would correct the alleged tax inequity...however, that's not what's being pitched. If the redistributors would keep their hands off post tax dollars and settle for original tax due on sale, we could probably find some common ground (especially if coupled with spending cuts).

(As to property taxes...Com, you are a really smart guy and I'm thinking that was a throw away line with unintentionally mixed metaphors. Local (property) taxes are analogous to a household maintenance account and state/federal taxes (including capital gains) are the capital account. The former are effectively "fee for service" accounts, which you can choose to pay or not pay by virtue of your residence. The elements of competition and locality have a lot more to do with the instrumentality than social policy. Perhaps a better argument is that you don't expect to avoid sales tax on the sale of something simply because you acquired it from an estate.)
 
Last edited:
JediJD said:
(As to property taxes...Com, you are a really smart guy and I'm thinking that was a throw away line with unintentionally mixed metaphors. Local (property) taxes are analogous to a household maintenance account and state/federal taxes (including capital gains) are the capital account. The former are effectively "fee for service" accounts, which you can choose to pay or not pay by virtue of your residence. The elements of competition and locality have a lot more to do with the instrumentality than social policy. Perhaps a better argument is that you don't expect to avoid sales tax on the sale of something simply because you acquired it from an estate.)
Click to expand...

I like that remark.

Note that I am not defending the estate tax.

I am just poining out (as I have done before) that the Estate tax is not really double taxation -> this is something else. (I guess this must be a talking point somewhere). Even it if was double taxation. . this is different.

If the "double taxation" aspect was really unconstitutional, I think that it would have been overturned sometime in the last 100 years. Estate taxes are not a recent thing.


If property taxes are a fee for services. . can I opt out of the services? I guess you are right that I can always move somewhere else. . .I just need to hire a car and driver to get somewhere else (given that I have opted not to buy state mandated car insurance and therefore don't have a car)

Thinking of Federal taxes as a "capital account" and not "fee for services" is off the mark. How much capital spending does the government do? If you take out the services called "medicare" and "defence". . all you are left with is . . . wait for it. . .. wait for it. . . . social security. Infrastructure and "long term resarch for things like "roads and highways" (pork); government research programs (NASA), and the like only make up a small percentage of total government spending.

I suppose the only real difference is the fact that it is a different entity picking your pocket?

No, property taxes are inherently evil. It is true double taxation. And the tax rate tends to rise over time (WTF). I know a number of people on fixed incomes who are hammered by property taxes. OH. . and if they sell, gains more than $250K or so are subject to capital gains tax . . . .
 
I was under the impression that Murkowsi would have been in favor.

I thought Sarah supported the bridge project before it got "press" as wasteful pork spending, and then used the funds for other projects (as opposed to not accepting the money) when the specific ear-mark was removed?

Or did I misread something somewhere?
 
comsnark said:
I like that remark.

Note that I am not defending the estate tax.

I am just poining out (as I have done before) that the Estate tax is not really double taxation -> this is something else. (I guess this must be a talking point somewhere). Even it if was double taxation. . this is different.

If the "double taxation" aspect was really unconstitutional, I think that it would have been overturned sometime in the last 100 years. Estate taxes are not a recent thing.


If property taxes are a fee for services. . can I opt out of the services? I guess you are right that I can always move somewhere else. . .I just need to hire a car and driver to get somewhere else (given that I have opted not to buy state mandated car insurance and therefore don't have a car)

Thinking of Federal taxes as a "capital account" and not "fee for services" is off the mark. How much capital spending does the government do? If you take out the services called "medicare" and "defence". . all you are left with is . . . wait for it. . .. wait for it. . . . social security. Infrastructure and "long term resarch for things like "roads and highways" (pork); government research programs (NASA), and the like only make up a small percentage of total government spending.

I suppose the only real difference is the fact that it is a different entity picking your pocket?

No, property taxes are inherently evil. It is true double taxation. And the tax rate tends to rise over time (WTF). I know a number of people on fixed incomes who are hammered by property taxes. OH. . and if they sell, gains more than $250K or so are subject to capital gains tax . . . .
Click to expand...

The first step in determining the estate tax is to determine the value of all assets. Even the basis is fair game. The money a person might accumulate in a savings account is included. You earned it, paid income tax on it and it‘s earnings and then it is taxed again via the estate tax. Double dip? What about everything else? Look at our boats for example. We’ve taken one of our already taxed assets(income/cash) and converted it to a boat, commonly no gain, but it is counted in the value of your estate and would be subject to the estate tax. Double dip?

At death you may have to do a 1) regular income tax filing (the last return), 2) depending on activity your estate may have to file a return after death and then you have 3) the calculation of the estate tax itself. The first two are about taxing income, what is the last tax all about? It can’t be just about unrealized capital gains. IMHO it’s a tax on wealth/success that should be called a “redistribution“. It’s often hard to visualize the end of one concept and the beginning of another. Trying to find the “right” logic in some of these things is like walking a mobius strip, yup, yup, uh-ha, uh-ha,..oh oh. When you’re done with estate tax and double taxation you can figure out whether or not a renter pays property tax. :lol:

I posted this before and was surprised there were no comments. Think about this IRS definition:
The estate tax is a tax on your right to transfer property at your death. .
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/...=98968,00.html
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Forum statistics

Threads
113,183
Messages
1,428,115
Members
61,091
Latest member
dionb
Back
Top