Thoughts after first summer on a 400 after moving up from a 340

[Stee6043]

In May of this year I parted ways with my '99 340 and got myself into a '97 400 just in time for the July 4th holiday. With three small kids it's a move the wife and I had been kicking around since our second year of having the 340.

So I thought I'd share some thoughts after our first summer with the bigger boat.

The first feature that was immediately life changing was the shower in the forward head. No more rearranging the bathroom to use the shower. No more walking to the marina bath house if you want a quick rinse before crashing at night. It seems so simple...but it is a real game changer. Similarly, having that second bathroom is nice. Kids can get up in the middle of the night and use their own head if needed.

Also life changing is the amount of beam and how that impacts maintenance. My first repair this year was the shower sump bilge pumps. There is gobs of room in the forward bilge areas. I had room to sit on the floor, beer by my side, feet in the bilge, and do my work. Even more roomy is the engine room, especially with gas engines. I had room to safely position a 5 gallon bucket between the engines for my oil changes and stand in front of both engines. By standing on the bilge floor everything is at a the perfect height. It was a pleasure to work on. The only exception to this being the generator.....which has turned into a Spring 2019 project based on horrible access . No worse than the 340 but surely not better.

Having solid doors on both cabins might be the second most impactful feature on the bigger boat. With small kids it's nice to ensure privacy at "certain times". The curtain style doors on the 340 didn't provide much....of anything.

As most would expect handling is quite different between the 340 and 400. My experience is that the 400 planes better, runs better in bigger seas and feels more bow-down. It just feels better balanced, everything being further forward maybe. On the flip side the 400 is more of a handful around the docks. I had 4 blade props on the 340, which the 400 also has, but I miss the authority of the 340 when steering with the trannys. I would put my docking confidence at 75-80% of what it was with the 340. More practice needed...perhaps more patience as well.

Overall we couldn't be more pleased with the move. Hopefully this is just enough boat to keep us happy until the kids stop wanting to hang out with us every weekend...

 

[RollerCoastr]

Don't forget about that big fridge, ice-maker, two AC units and the big bulkhead that's a perfect space for a 32" TV!

I agree - a gasser 400 ER is about a best-case scenario for nearly everything. I don't even mind the genny access. I can do the plugs by feel, the water pump is right out in front and facing forward... I just don't like reaching the oil filter.

As far as handling goes, I mitigate that with liberal bursts of power to the reverse engine. That makes her scoot her ass over nicely without any un-wanted consequences. My first docking maneuver out of storage this spring was with white caps in the marina. She made me look "cool", while the big Chris Craft in front of me hit another boat and sent a man to the hospital. The low profile and predictable handling of the 400 deserves much more credit than I do.

The bad habit I can't seem to avoid is her reluctance to backdown for more than 2 boat lengths without weather-vaning in wind or current. IMO, she's just too slow in reverse and too bow-light to pull that off.

It sounds like she's endeared herself to you this summer. Any projects planned to reward her over the winter? This year I added my third MFD, and it's awesome. I have a 12" in the big panel, and two 7-inchers in the instrument row.

 

[Stee6043]

Don't forget about that big fridge, ice-maker, two AC units and the big bulkhead that's a perfect space for a 32" TV!

I agree - a gasser 400 ER is about a best-case scenario for nearly everything. I don't even mind the genny access. I can do the plugs by feel, the water pump is right out in front and facing forward... I just don't like reaching the oil filter.

As far as handling goes, I mitigate that with liberal bursts of power to the reverse engine. That makes her scoot her ass over nicely without any un-wanted consequences. My first docking maneuver out of storage this spring was with white caps in the marina. She made me look "cool", while the big Chris Craft in front of me hit another boat and sent a man to the hospital. The low profile and predictable handling of the 400 deserves much more credit than I do.

The bad habit I can't seem to avoid is her reluctance to backdown for more than 2 boat lengths without weather-vaning in wind or current. IMO, she's just too slow in reverse and too bow-light to pull that off.

It sounds like she's endeared herself to you this summer. Any projects planned to reward her over the winter? This year I added my third MFD, and it's awesome. I have a 12" in the big panel, and two 7-inchers in the instrument row.

Yeah, I was going to mention the fridge but I hesitated. I'm a beer drinker and I actually miss the dedicated beer fridge/beer space I had in my 340's cockpit. The ice maker is nice though I rarely use it. My wife, on the other hand, is a big fan. The kids really, really like being able to watch that TV on the bulkhead during our morning routine. A very viewable location from the couch. Clearly my post was quite selfish - my wife and kids probably care nothing about what I mentioned! ha.

Projects indeed. First thing next spring I need to get my generator working again. She's running fine but producing no voltage. I fiddled with some things and it worked again for a day, now back to INOP. If I'm a couple boat bucks into my generator next year there will not be much in the way of cool upgrades.

A quick and painless project I've got underway is the addition of a bunk in the aft cabin. I did it on my 340 and it worked really well. My 2.0 design should be even more successful. I also plan to add a Fusion wired remote to the helm this winter. I've got the head unit and the rest of the system situated but the iPhone remote is not an ideal remote setup.

Assuming best case on the generator (simple cap replacement?) I would really like to start working on the electronics just as you've stated. The radar screen on my 400 actually makes me chuckle. I'm old enough to remember when green monochrome was hip, cool, current. But man alive...I never thought I'd own one again. I'd really like to swap my current Furuno GPS and Raymarine radar displays with two matching MFD's. Sadly, my scanner is not compatible with new-ish MFD's. So even with buying used gear I'm still looking at a pretty decent investment to replace the scanner, pedestal and MFD's.

I'm ready to make this look sexier:

And maybe stop using the iPad...and eventually relocate my VHF. Other than that, shoot, nothing planned

 

[Gofirstclass]

Welcome to the wonderful world of bigger boats. The handling will become second nature to you with more practice.

All those other things that were mentioned are just some of the reasons why people step up to bigger boats. And it's a nice step.

 

[RollerCoastr]

That panel behind the XX suggests that someone swapped a 41XX for a 21XX? I sure don't miss that monster. I counted one time: 17 key presses to adjust the screen brightness! I sold mine to a CSR member over your way. I have to give those old XX's credit - they're actually very good scanners! In several ways, it out-performs the Garmin dome that I replaced it with.

I'm jealous of your nice panels. Can you get matching replacement for the instrument row? I have a home-made starboard panel holding my VHF and I managed to fit everything else in just by luck, but the factory panels look horrible.

I agree about the Fusion app. It's one too many steps, or maybe just too unreliable to serve as a remote. All three of my MFD's can control the Fusion, so I only use the Fusion remote for it's volume knob. I bought a close-out Garmin 741. The software it runs shows a "Media" button on the main screen, so with one tap it becomes a 7" touchscreen remote. If I had something to fill the space where the Fusion remote is (mine is where your TriData is), I'd move it below the cupholders and toward the door so it was more accessible.

I'm curious why the Raytheon plotter survived the last dash remodel...

 

[MonacoMike]

We feel very much as you do about our move up. I was asked how it feels to move up from the 270 to the 3870, (if you do not know, very similar to the 400 DA.) I said the following. You are going out to dinner, your pants are a little snug but you wear them anyway, as you dine and drink they get tighter and pinch and pull. When you finally get home you pull them off you go AHHHH, that is how I feel every time I board our new boat.

MM

 

[M Prod]

Great read, and thanks for sharing. We're thinking of upgrading to a 400 or 420 (or bigger) sooner than later. The separate shower, closed cabin, diesels, and room to work on them are (as you mentioned and reinforced) the main contributing factors. I love doing my own maintenance and our 340 with the 8.1's leaves me bloodied and bruised every time i want to get anything done. I also like the idea of more windows ..especially being able to look out from our bed in the morning. The 340 is a bit cave like with the 3 little port hole windows. Don't get me wrong ...we love our 340, and I reckon we'll stay with her for a few more seasons yet before we make the jump. But all things to look forward to.

 

[bracketracer]

Funny you mention the separate shower thing. When we started seriously looking to move up from our 4-Winns 24' I/O, this actually became one of the items on the top of our priority list. Separate shower, full sized (mostly) fridge.

And yeah, giving some "stooch" to the reverse motor is going to become second-hand in short order.

When we finally decided upon the boat, I knew that I was going to be really unhappy with all of the original electronics, although I'm sure the C80 was added later on. The "hunting for red october" radar screen was pretty amusing.

So, went from this layout

To this

 

[Ezsteps]

I got my 400 in 2016. I could type my experiences but I feel you already did. Although I believe it is the easiest boat I have ever handled. The reverse throttle ever now and then makes a ton of difference. I have 60' from my slip to the seawall and with the dinghy hanging off the platform I'm about 47' LOA. I don't even get nervous backing into the slip with the 400. I'm a beer drinker also and love it out of the ice cold RTIC. If my ice maker goes out I will replace it with another one. I don't even buy ice anymore (that was one of my selling points to the wife). Moving from the 310 to the 400 was one of the best boating decisions I've made. I bit the bullet this spring and upgraded all the electronics Radar, MFD, Stereo, speakers, VHF, TV antenna, and remote. 13 boat bucks but it was worth it.

 

[Ezsteps]

I forgot to add a question to Roller. Do you have your 741 mounted in the area between where my Auto-pilot and VHF are? Right above the steering wheel? That's where I want to add one and just have never taken the measurements yet.

 

[Blkbird]

Separate heads and real doors to the bedrooms were big selling points.
But I had to have Diesel engines. That was a prerequisite.

 

[JVM225]

Just finishing up my 2nd season with my 410.
I came from a 300.
I miss the speed of the 300 a bit, but that’s about it.
My 410 is much easier to handle around the docks with the diesels. You point it and it goes exactly where you want it to go.
The fuel burn at cruising speed on plane is about 1 mpg which is close to what I got in my 300, but it really gets economical at cocktail speed.
I love having the genny, and used it more this year than last. Once I figured out I could keep both AC units running along with all the other 110 stuff for only about a half gallon an hour of fuelmit was a no brained.
The large separate forward shower stall is fantastic. Having a separate shower was a demand of my wife’s when we decided to move up, I was perfectly happy with the one in our old 300 and didn’t really care, but I wound up using it more than she does.
She usually just uses it when we spend the night. Along with showering on overnights, I use it every time I putter around on the boat at the dock too. I really love having it.
It’s nice to be able to stand between the motors. Oil changes are super easy with the reverso.
Winterizing the motors and genny is a snap too.
The genny is tough to get to, but not impossible. The only things I’ve had to put my hands on it for so far is to change oil and fuel filters. No more plugs is a good thing!
Having the second head is nice. We don’t use it as much as a I thought we would, but it’s still nice to have.
The big fridge makes me wonder how we ever did weekends on a boat without it.
I really love the solid doors on the forward and aft cabins.

 

[Joint Custody]

I moved up from a 330 to a 460.
Love all this below...
Separate shower in front head... actually one of the things that sold me on the boat
Wider Beam
Hard Top
Diesels
On board oil changer.... damn once you have one of these your just never not going to have one
Bigger cockpit
Bow thruster
Hydraulic Swim Deck..... noting like dropping it a foot or two down and you have your own beach.
Two heads... let the kids make a mess out of there and then making them clean it. lol!
Two AC units
Efficiency of the diesels
No CO while running the Gen.... We stay on the boat weeks at a time away from the dock. Nice to know you can run the gen later into the night and not kill anyone.
Overall handling at the dock and in big chop.
Ice maker. We go through two bags a day in July and Aug and that is with Yeti coolers.
Bigger fridge
Stripper pole on bow.... Just kidding just seeing if your paying attention
Bigger slip. Not going to lie.. my slip kicks ass! I am just as happy to stay at the dock as I am out on the lake.
Solid doors front and aft
Room in the engine room to work on stuff


Not liking so much...
Shafts VS out drives.. Lake Powell has many many many obstacles just right under the water and the lake goes up and down all season so it changes weekly. Not being able to raise the drives has changed how we boat on the lake and where we go. You would have to vist the lake to understand this. The beauty of the lake is the tight narrow canyons and getting places
others dont dare go and some times you only draft 2ft or so.
I miss just kicking the drives up and setting the bow on the beach too!

Many many times I would take the 330 in canyons that only had one to two feet on each side of the boat.

When at camp just unhooking from the beach and go. Now we put the bow out for the most part and tie the stern to the shore. It is simple enough to unhook however returning takes just as much time as when you first set the anchor and the underwater terrain isn't always simple to get it to hook. Lots of patience with this and I am lucky to have a Admiral that understands how much a pain in the butt this can be when all doesn't work right and hook right.

Slower to get around however not that big of a deal.

Not having a trailer to pull the boat whenever I want to do what ever I want to it. Our closest marina with a trailer for the boat is a five hour boat ride.

Average each time on boat is costing around 800 to 1200 depending on how far we run. However if I am going to worry about this .... it is time to hang it up!

Wish List....
For us the boat is used days and nights at a time. I feel Searay could of made better use of the aft cabin. We dont use it as a sitting area it is all for sleeping. I have been thinking of taking out the couch/bed and the corner chair and converting to just one nice bed.

Electronics upgrade. This would be great to do however on a inland lake not really needed.


Overall loving the 460!!!

 

[bbwhitejr]

We have just finished our first year with our 44DB. We moved up from a 260DA. This is our first time in a slip. We have great dock neighbors. We love the 2-full heads. The admiral has one and the other is mine. 99.9% of the time it is just us so the solid doors are not a big thing. The windows in the salon are one of the biggest pros for us. We have an end slip so a full view on one side. The bridge is the best! We are having seat covers made currently so next year, after the pollen is gone, I will remove the entire bridge enclosure and leave it off for the summer. We are really looking forward to that. The boat is so much easier to slip than the single leg 260 was.

I do miss the opportunity to visit different places with the trailer though and having it at home to work on at anytime.

Bennett

 

[MonacoMike]

I do miss the opportunity to visit different places with the trailer though and having it at home to work on at anytime.

Bennett

We did that for 4 seasons, loved the exploring, in 2013 we worked with a CSR member to get in a nicer private marina with pool and hot tub and other amenities. Once the Admiral had a taste of driving to the boat in a slip, and we were there, trailering was all over.

After 5 seasons of 60-70 nights on a 270 DA the admiral said time to get bigger or quit, we got way bigger. LOL

MM

 

[Stee6043]

Some really cool stories here! Good stuff. Great reading...

 

[Craig]

Its interesting that there is a common theme about the separate shower. I've gotten so use to a wet head I never even think about it anymore. Seemingly little things make a huge difference.

 

[RollerCoastr]

I forgot to add a question to Roller. Do you have your 741 mounted in the area between where my Auto-pilot and VHF are? Right above the steering wheel? That's where I want to add one and just have never taken the measurements yet.

Your pics aren't showing up. I'd like to see them!

I originally had the four matching Raytheon units: Plotter, Receiver, AP, VHF. I tossed the receiver and plotter, moved the AP to the left spot, and enlarged the center holes to accommodate a 741 and a 742. (which for some reason don't take the same size/shape opening). I have a filler plate over the right opening to hold a Garmin VHF.

I've been putting off getting a new panel for that row until I pop for a new AP, but the original RayPilot 650 is now working better than ever, so I guess I'll hold off. I'll take a pic this wkd.

 

[MonacoMike]

Its interesting that there is a common theme about the separate shower. I've gotten so use to a wet head I never even think about it anymore. Seemingly little things make a huge difference.

As the Admiral and I talked, all the things we most wanted in a bigger boat many were small things, they make a big difference, especially collectively, of the living experience.

Top difference makers of bigger boat for us.

Our own real master head with separate shower that functions similar to a home bath.

We now come in to the boat grab a quick shower and off to dinner with friends​

A galley counter for the Keurig and accessories without "setting it up" everytime.

Ahh, coffee when we want, out of the way when we do not.​

A big refrigerator with a separate freezer.

Cocktail ice and Ice cream, need I say more.​

A place to have a light breakfast privately.

A refuge before greeting dockmates to start the day.​

There are many other great reasons we wanted the bigger boat but as we waited to get her these were the often mentioned things we said we were looking forward to. I'm sure we will take all that for granted in a season or so but little things make a difference...

MM

 

[Ezsteps]

Your pics aren't showing up. I'd like to see them!

I originally had the four matching Raytheon units: Plotter, Receiver, AP, VHF. I tossed the receiver and plotter, moved the AP to the left spot, and enlarged the center holes to accommodate a 741 and a 742. (which for some reason don't take the same size/shape opening). I have a filler plate over the right opening to hold a Garmin VHF.

I've been putting off getting a new panel for that row until I pop for a new AP, but the original RayPilot 650 is now working better than ever, so I guess I'll hold off. I'll take a pic this wkd.

I'll try to re-post them on my tablet at home. I still can't figure out what I'm doing wrong with my work computer and Google photos. When I look at my post they are there.