The RIGHT way to replace fuel lines...?

[rondds]

Older SR here, probably all original fuel lines, sticker near the fuel deck fill that clearly states "DO NOT USE ETHANOL BLENDED FUEL." Here in the NE every pump I've been to is clearly marked E-10 and has been for 2 years (at least). I have had NO fuel related issues with this boat since the switchover to E-10 and I do not have poly tanks.

So, I am currently in the process of replacing a Floscan sender and all 5 fuel filters and I started thinking about fuel lines. Not sure what to do. Between the long runs aft and then forward to the engines and the fuel crossover system I have, I'd be into an awful lot of new fuel lines and fittings. Two ways to do this - buy a big old spool of hose, cut it and make my own using the proper fuel fittings and hose clamps OR take all the hoses to a hose shop and get them made up.

I have no current problems and inspection doesn't reveal any failing fuel lines. Not sure where to go with all this right now.

Suggestions?

 

[JeffM]

I would check with mercruiser or Sea Ray, but I thought those stickers were referring to the E-85 "Gasohol" that some retailers tried to sell in the 80's.

 

[Stray Cat]

Ron, if they are the original fuel lines, they are now going on 20 yrs old. I just don't have a lot of confidence in a hose that has been in service that long. You will likely get varied opinions, mine is I'd change them.

I am most familiar with Parker's hose products. They offer a series 221FR (see link) that is compatible with ethanol blends. This series hose also offers a field attachable hose end (20 series) that is equal to a crimped hose using a threaded ferrule that "screws" on to the hose od, then you screw in the hose nipple (the pipe thread end) into the ferrule and into the hose id.

The 221FR has a USCG SAEJ1942 rating, and in all sizes has an excellent bend radius.

Here's a link if you are interested: http://www.parker.com/literature/Literature Files/hpd/literature/catalog/Section A - Hose_.pdf

 

[tdappleman]

I'd replace them - one less thing to worry about. I replaced all of mine last year and it wasn't that expensive. I ended up with 2 6ft runs of line - one from each pick up to the fuel/water separator on each engine and then about 1 foot to the fuel pump. From the fuel pump to the carb inlet it's a hard line. Double clamps on everything along with fresh anti-siphon fittings and I was done.

 

[rondds]

Travis
1- Do you recall the diameter of the hose? What hose did you use- it's my understanding that it needs to be USCG and NMMA approved. Shields is one manufacturer I saw in the West Marine catalog.
2- Where do you put the antisiphon fittings? Do you just need one per tank somewhere in the fuel line?
3- Hose clamps vs. hydraulically compressed fittings - this is part of my question. Are barbed fittings and hose clamps as good/as acceptable?

Jeff
That's a great link. But that 30page catalog was making my head spin. I've got to take some time to go over it. Thanks!

 

[Beer Thirty]

Braided stainless and be done with it! lol That's a bit pricey though.

 

[tdappleman]

Travis
1- Do you recall the diameter of the hose? What hose did you use- it's my understanding that it needs to be USCG and NMMA approved. Shields is one manufacturer I saw in the West Marine catalog.
2- Where do you put the antisiphon fittings? Do you just need one per tank somewhere in the fuel line?
3- Hose clamps vs. hydraulically compressed fittings - this is part of my question. Are barbed fittings and hose clamps as good/as acceptable?

1 - I used Shields 3/8" - it is stamped with 'Shields Fire-Acol USCG Type A1" - my local NAPA has a good Marine section and they stocked it in rolls and sold it by the foot.
2 - My tank has 2 pickups - at the top of the tank is a 90 degree barbed fitting and it had the spring loaded siphon function in it. I went ahead and replaced them since they can limit fuel flow if not opening correctly.
3 - I had barbed fittings and hose clamps from the factory - from the tanks to the fuel seps and then to the fuel pump so I just replaced it with new parts. I believe the only thing is they all have to be double clamped.

 

[sbw1]

If your hoses are not e10 resistant, what about the carburator's and related fuel system parts?

 

[Beer Thirty]

If your hoses are not e10 resistant, what about the carburator's and related fuel system parts?

hard parts should be fine. Its just all the rubber seals and lines you need to worry about.

 

[rondds]

Travis
I figure we have the same diameter but I'll have to check on this to be sure. They the exact hose you mention at West Marine for $3.59/ft - I'll check on Napa's price also.

Below is a pic of the setup I have, but this in not my boat. All my fuel lines have fittings like you see here. It's a pretty elaborate project if I do decide to undertake it, ESP if I get the hoses made up with these types of fittings.

 

[keokie]

And don't forget the fuel inlet hoses. 20 years is definitely too long for fuel lines.

 

[tobnpr]

I'd do it sooner rather than later. Seems apparent the fuel lines are not compatible with ethanol, or they wouldn't have placed the sticker there telling you not to use it...

The ethanol fuel you're using could be dissolving the fuel lines. Pressed fittings aren't necessary on suction lines. I'd buy a spool of hose and some good quality clamps and do it myself. Be sure to use a thread sealant on the fittings that's compatible with gasoline.

Read this:


High levels of ethanol can dissolve, deteriorate and breakdown solid material, including rubber, plastic, fiberglass and even aluminum and steel.


Ethanol will also cleanse and release corrosive matter (gunk), varnish and rust, which will travel through the engine and clog fuel filters, carburetor jets and injectors. In many outboard engines it will also contaminate the fuel present in your fuel tank.


Ethanol tends to dissolve certain resins, which can travel through the engine intake and coat intake valves, causing sticking and bent pushrods or worse. This has been well documented for boats equipped with certain fiberglass gas tanks, made before the early 1990's.


The more gunk (rust, sediment, dirt, etc.) collected in your outboard engine over the years, the more noticeable the cleansing effects of alcohol will be noticed.


Ethanol's solvent and cleansing abilities can lead to engine failure and expensive (avoidable) repairs.

 

[Stray Cat]

But that 30page catalog was making my head spin. I've got to take some time to go over it.

Ron, the hose should be on page 25 from that link.
The field attachable end, is in the fittings section B, page 129 which is a female 45 deg swivel.

If you use the style of hose shown in your post, I would opt for the brass crimped ferrule vs. barbs and clamps. Not certain, I would think you need some wire reinforcement on the suction side of the pump(s) so the hose doesn't colapse when you throttle up....are all of yours just nylon reinforced?

 

[rondds]

Jeff:
JLevine and I spent some time on the Parker link and that hose is pretty much cost prohibitive (probably about $2K to replace everything). It'd be WAY cheaper to go to a hose guy and have everything made up with all the proper materials, and still have the new hoses outlive the boat! As for the hose shown above, it's application is fuel lines, both diesel and gasoline, and it is USCG and NMMA approved. Collpase is not going to be an issue.

Tob, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that all of us with this generation of gas powered SR are going to have the same caution sticker affixed. Maybe mine's the only one that survived 20 years of wind and sun and surf! There's nothing special about my 1989 7.4L engines as compared to all the rest of us SERFs out there. And I've heard all the hype about ethanol and the toll it takes on engines. I've been waiting for two years to hear of one ethanol-related incident to emerge, either on these boards or through my boating buddies. Not one. Just like Y2K, the panic has proven unfounded. That, of course, doesnt meant the clock isn't ticking on my 20 year old rubber hoses!

 

[MarkD]

Hey Ron,

So you have bulkhead mounted fuel/water separators? Do you also have those Fram filters for the 3 engines in the boat (genny too)? My fuel water filters are directly on the engine... and the Frams are by the shutoff valves.

Do you also plan on doing the filler hoses...? I think I mentioned to you last week that mine (when i checked the access panels) were definately cracked...albeit slightly. Time to change them puppies out.

 

[rondds]

Mark
I have three bulkhead mounted Fram C-1110PLs, one for each motor. The spin-on fuel water separators are engine mounted. There is NOT a spin on for the genny. If I can get to the filler hose, I'd certainly replace it! Not sure about access.

Mark - you got that sticker on your 1990?

 

[fc3]

Ron,

Replace everything, including the fuel filler hoses. You'll find that Sea Ray put access ports somewhere near every connection. Just Ducky has them as did most of the other boats I looked at.

You must use Coast Guard type A1 hose. Since you already have swaged hose ends, I would stay with them. Can get you a reference of a good guy if you need one. You'll have less work with the swaged ends and they generally tend to be more leak resistant, a good thing.

Best regards,
Frank

 

[Four Suns]

I replaced a fuel line on my generator this past fall and I just took it to a local hose shop and they had the same hose and crimped on the fittings. It was like $7 for an 8 foot hose....

 

[rondds]

Frank:
Could you please email me the reference? I called a local guy today and asked what a 15' fuel line would run (I don't think I need a 15' line but I was trying to get a sense of a per-foot cost). He quoted me roughly $110. That was for regular fuel hose. He said it'd be more for the marine stuff and he'd have to order it.

This is from the Mercruiser Operation and Maintenance Manual for Models 5.7 Competition SKi and Blue Water Inboards 5.7 and 7.4.

Again, nothing new contained herein - but the "sticker" applies to all pre-e-10 boats. I have a friend with a 2002 Carver 396 and the manual for his Kohler genny states that ethanol gasoline is an absolute contraindication.

 

[fc3]

I'll go dig it up. It's been a few years...