The real difference in Raymarine Radar systems

[melida]

Just wanted to add my 2 cents before leaving marina for night fishing right now, local time is 23.20.:grin:

PO of my boat have installed Raymarine C80 mfd and Gps and I added autopilot after purchasing the boat.

I'm boating since 1994 when that era there are seperate devices for gps, chartplotter, radar and fishfinder. Now all (four) in one.

I have plenty of radar knowledge during 19+ years of solo captaining and will never have a boat without radar as I'm doing lots of night and foul weather crusing.

Where I live/boat there is a heavy marine traffic, commercial vessels passes through the Bosphorus strait between the passanger ships, car ferries, speed catamarans, commercial fishers and recreational boats between the islands. The traffic goes crazy sometimes is summer.

Two years ago in May I was returning from my summer home/island in a dark/no moon night, campers on but not totally fogged, cruising on plane at 19 knots, autopilot set to my winter marina and I was enjoying my frape.

I was curiously watching the objects on the radar display, a side note I set the "wave" on to see the direction of the vessels as they are depicted yellow and their wave is blue which indicates who is approaching to me or passing opposite side of me, and ofcourse to see the approaching storm near 24 miles which my radome range is.

Suddenly I saw 7-8 yellow dots on the radar display, then they started to became as a pea but still yellow, there was no blue color around them, immediately pulled the throttle to neutral and turned on the spotlight through what I saw on the display, there are app 10 wooden fisher boats leaving their nets (which is illegal where they were) without any lights turned on even their nav/mast lights. I yelled them and hailed to coast guard via vhf.:smt021

What I wanted to tell is if I didn't have the radar, or didn't know how to use it now I couldn't write this right now and my wife and daughter who were sleeping in the cabin unaware of what was happening, and of course the fishermen.

So no matter what kind of a unit you have, the main thing is if you have it learn well how to use it, you'll never know when you'll need it.

HTH.

 

[Gofirstclass]

If you ever get caught out in the fog you'll be darn glad you have a radar....and even happier that you know how to use it. Without a good working knowledge of how the thing works and what it can do for you, it's like having a great stereo in your car and not knowing how to use it. I took this series of pics on a day when I was out on the boat and the fog settled in as I was on my way into a basin that had a very narrow entrance.

These pics were taken as I was approaching the opening to the basin. As you can see, I couldn't see a damn thing. Without the radar I would never have tried to enter the basin. The stern shot was taken as I was about a hundred yards from the opening. The next shot was taken as I passed beneath a freeway bridge. I'm directly below it and you can barely see it. The others were taken as I got closer. In the bottom pic you can see a tree that's on the bank that's just to the right of the opening. At that time I was within 50' of the opening.










This pic was taken just before I entered the opening. If you look at the radar screen (it's overlaid on top of the GPS) you can see the radar image in purple. It's offset from the land a bit because the boat was moving forward and this is between radar sweeps. The pic was taken when I was about 150' from the opening. The long black line that goes directly out in front of the boat is the "lubber line" (google it) and the red line shows my course over ground. The length of the COG line represents how far I will travel at the speed I'm moving (just over 2kts) in 3 minutes time. The difference between the lubber line and the COG line is caused by the current flow.

This is the kind of information a radar setup can provide. It does tell you where you are, as does the GPS, but more importantly it can give you the COG and lubber line information that the GPS won't give you.




Were I in your shoes I'd keep the radar I had and not toss money out on a new one. I'd also learn it inside and out so you can really USE it.

 

[Alex F]

I saw an open array RM radar on a 340DA and it looked pretty cool. I don't know if it'll look the same on a 310. However, the question is, if you have something that's perfectly working (existing dome radar) why mess with it?

Another puzzling question (if I understood the whole story correctly), why upgrade to a more sophisticated equipment if you haven't learned the benefit you get with basic model currently installed?

The need for a radar is very much depends on how you're using your boat. For those that cruise often and have it, and know how to use it, of course understand the importance of it. As you can see from most posts, these folks (including myself) don't see their boat without a radar. Mine saved me from collisions many times in all kinds of different circumstances.

Running at 19kts in the pitch dark night with the crew sleeping down below is not what I'd call safe boating. I follow a simple rule "never outrun your vision". It sounds like it's not the case at 19kts. But, that's just me.

 

[melida]

I saw an open array RM radar on a 340DA and it looked pretty cool. I don't know if it'll look the same on a 310. However, the question is, if you have something that's perfectly working (existing dome radar) why mess with it?

Another puzzling question (if I understood the whole story correctly), why upgrade to a more sophisticated equipment if you haven't learned the benefit you get with basic model currently installed?

The need for a radar is very much depends on how you're using your boat. For those that cruise often and have it, and know how to use it, of course understand the importance of it. As you can see from most posts, these folks (including myself) don't see their boat without a radar. Mine saved me from collisions many times in all kinds of different circumstances.

Running at 19kts in the pitch dark night with the crew sleeping down below is not what I'd call safe boating. I follow a simple rule "never outrun your vision". It sounds like it's not the case at 19kts. But, that's just me.

Alex, you're right about it's not safe, but that's just for you as you said.

Don't take self offence.

As I said earlier my eisenglasses weren't fogged and I was able to see the outside and pulled to neutral remaining half mile to the fisherman.

The area where I do this trip is a 4 nautical miles distance/12minutes run and I cruise there individually last 19+ years and as a first mate of my father since I was a child.

We do lots of long runs. Just did last weekend 100 miles of round trip. In the summer season we do more than 200 miles one way and start the trip before sunrise. Untill sunrise I run at hull speed and then get on plane till target. Because I don't know very well or passed 5-6 times there in my total boating life.

I know very well where I boat, the deep, shallow, sand bars, rocks etc eyes shot. Also I'm a voluntary search and rescue member (not currently) around my area and helped to rescue operation three years ago around my island where 4 of my childhood friends (RIP) boat capsized.

I'm not telling I did right and advice it, jut wanted to mention even I know very well my boating area if I didn't have a radar or don't know how to interpret what's on the screen I must had a big collision.

 

[Woody]

I saw an open array RM radar on a 340DA and it looked pretty cool. I don't know if it'll look the same on a 310. However, the question is, if you have something that's perfectly working (existing dome radar) why mess with it?

Another puzzling question (if I understood the whole story correctly), why upgrade to a more sophisticated equipment if you haven't learned the benefit you get with basic model currently installed?

The need for a radar is very much depends on how you're using your boat. For those that cruise often and have it, and know how to use it, of course understand the importance of it. As you can see from most posts, these folks (including myself) don't see their boat without a radar. Mine saved me from collisions many times in all kinds of different circumstances.

Running at 19kts in the pitch dark night with the crew sleeping down below is not what I'd call safe boating. I follow a simple rule "never outrun your vision". It sounds like it's not the case at 19kts. But, that's just me.

The impression I've gotten from previous CSR discussion was that it was quite common boats run on plane in poor visibility using radar and autopilot. Have I misunderstood?

 

[trit21]

We run at night quite often using radar, spotlight etc on plane. Quite a few people down here do that as well and I would say all the fisherman do it here. When you have to leave the marina at 4:30am and go 40miles offshore, running at idle is way way too long. Once you get used to it, it really is quite simple. Again, your radar is your eyes and mine (yes a radomee) will pick up birds on the water in front of me at 1-2miles distance. Once you understand the adjustments and what the screen is telling you, you can thn run at night.

 

[ZZ13]

This pic was taken just before I entered the opening. If you look at the radar screen (it's overlaid on top of the GPS) you can see the radar image in purple. It's offset from the land a bit because the boat was moving forward and this is between radar sweeps. The pic was taken when I was about 150' from the opening. The long black line that goes directly out in front of the boat is the "lubber line" (google it) and the red line shows my course over ground. The length of the COG line represents how far I will travel at the speed I'm moving (just over 2kts) in 3 minutes time. The difference between the lubber line and the COG line is caused by the current flow.

This is the kind of information a radar setup can provide. It does tell you where you are, as does the GPS, but more importantly it can give you the COG and lubber line information that the GPS won't give you.

View attachment 28717


Were I in your shoes I'd keep the radar I had and not toss money out on a new one. I'd also learn it inside and out so you can really USE it.

Isn't the lubber line the same thing as a heading vector? My old 2004 chartplotter (SL70CRC) lets me display both a COG vector (3mins just like yours, or infinite, or 10mins) and a heading vector. I don't need radar (or in my case, the radar turned on) to get those.

 

[Gofirstclass]

ZZ, yup, they're one and the same. Many years ago I learned it as a lubber line, a term that has been used for many, many years. I suspect "heading vector" is a newer term. Being an old fart, I tend to use the terms I learned when I started boating.

 

[ZZ13]

ZZ, yup, they're one and the same. Many years ago I learned it as a lubber line, a term that has been used for many, many years. I suspect "heading vector" is a newer term. Being an old fart, I tend to use the terms I learned when I started boating.

I am an old fart too, just new to all the boating terms. Drinking through a firehose for the past few years and trying to learn fast.

 

[JimFromMD]

I just created a new thread called "Getting the most from your RADAR". Link below. I've learned a fair amount on my own, but I have to imagine that many of you here have some tips and tricks for tweaking settings (generically) for various conditions that can help us all out. Share your knowledge and experience.

http://clubsearay.com/showthread.php/57143-Getting-the-most-from-your-RADAR

 

[Molson]

Good idea. I was considering grabbing an open array unit I saw on the local buy/sell site for $300.00. I am just checking if it will work with my C80.

 

[Alex F]

The impression I've gotten from previous CSR discussion was that it was quite common boats run on plane in poor visibility using radar and autopilot. Have I misunderstood?

Are you referring to a particular thread (got a link?) or is it just a general observation? IMO, it falls under "it depends" category. I've done it myself many times but my speed is slower (14-16kts) and I do my best not outrun my vision within a distance I'm comfortable with. Local knowledge is a huge help, but the biggest problem is the unknown (floating debris, lobster pots, small boats with no navigation or any kind of lights on and they're flying on plane as well, etc.). I always change the settings to manual and make necessary adjustments based on the area and the conditions, but my biggest fear is the floating debris that might not get picked up by the radar. For those who are comfortable using the radar making a long run I perfectly understand that having the right equipment for the job it's all doable. I'm more comfortable to run on plane at night in the open water than in ICW. No matter how you twist it and turn it, running on plane in the dark just adds much higher risk regardless how good you're and your radar. Let's not forget that just like a chart plotter a radar it's an aid to navigation. There's no guaranty that it will never miss a target in AUTO or MANUAL modes. For this reason I try not to run on plane at night, unless I need to.

 

[Alex F]

We run at night quite often using radar, spotlight etc on plane...

Tom, how does the spotlight help you? Do you keep it on all the time or you turn it on just for a quick scan?

 

[hack4alivin]

Are you referring to a particular thread (got a link?) or is it just a general observation? IMO, it falls under "it depends" category. I've done it myself many times but my speed is slower (14-16kts) and I do my best not outrun my vision within a distance I'm comfortable with. Local knowledge is a huge help, but the biggest problem is the unknown (floating debris, lobster pots, small boats with no navigation or any kind of lights on and they're flying on plane as well, etc.). I always change the settings to manual and make necessary adjustments based on the area and the conditions, but my biggest fear is the floating debris that might not get picked up by the radar. For those who are comfortable using the radar making a long run I perfectly understand that having the right equipment for the job it's all doable. I'm more comfortable to run on plane at night in the open water than in ICW. No matter how you twist it and turn it, running on plane in the dark just adds much higher risk regardless how good you're and your radar. Let's not forget that just like a chart plotter a radar it's an aid to navigation. There's no guaranty that it will never miss a target in AUTO or MANUAL modes. For this reason I try not to run on plane at night, unless I need to.

Totally agree with you! Despite the instrumentation, doing 20 to 30 knots in pitch blackness just makes my butt pucker.

 

[trit21]

Tom, how does the spotlight help you? Do you keep it on all the time or you turn it on just for a quick scan?

Spot light is used for on and off real quick bursts. Nothing worse than when someone comes at your or from behind with the spot light on, it should not be used as a headlight. When I am approaching markers, I use the spotlight to scan for it and spot it. The light will reflect a mile in front of you off the markers. I use radar and chartplotter to indicate where the marker should be and then confirm with my spotlight. Remember, quick short burst and a scan across the bow just to spot the marker is all you need. Of course, if I detect something on radar I may turn it on to spot that as well.

 

[Alex F]

Spot light is used for on and off real quick bursts. Nothing worse than when someone comes at your or from behind with the spot light on, it should not be used as a headlight. When I am approaching markers, I use the spotlight to scan for it and spot it. The light will reflect a mile in front of you off the markers. I use radar and chartplotter to indicate where the marker should be and then confirm with my spotlight. Remember, quick short burst and a scan across the bow just to spot the marker is all you need. Of course, if I detect something on radar I may turn it on to spot that as well.

Got you, for a moment I thought you keep it on like a headlight. I do exactly as you described and try to minimize the time the light is on for 5-10 seconds to catch a reflection from the objects I saw on the screen, while getting close to them.

 

[Woody]

Are you referring to a particular thread (got a link?) or is it just a general observation? IMO, it falls under "it depends" category. I've done it myself many times but my speed is slower (14-16kts) and I do my best not outrun my vision within a distance I'm comfortable with. Local knowledge is a huge help, but the biggest problem is the unknown (floating debris, lobster pots, small boats with no navigation or any kind of lights on and they're flying on plane as well, etc.). I always change the settings to manual and make necessary adjustments based on the area and the conditions, but my biggest fear is the floating debris that might not get picked up by the radar. For those who are comfortable using the radar making a long run I perfectly understand that having the right equipment for the job it's all doable. I'm more comfortable to run on plane at night in the open water than in ICW. No matter how you twist it and turn it, running on plane in the dark just adds much higher risk regardless how good you're and your radar. Let's not forget that just like a chart plotter a radar it's an aid to navigation. There's no guaranty that it will never miss a target in AUTO or MANUAL modes. For this reason I try not to run on plane at night, unless I need to.

No certain thread comes to mind but the subject has come up here and there like it has in this thread. I don't have radar so am always interested when this comes up. The idea is puckering but maybe if I had radar and knew how to use it I'd change my mind.