The Liberal Sickness

[Daddubo]

It has been around for a long time and History does repeat itself.

Good Lord! Has anyone seen this cartoon from the 1934 Chicago Tribune? Could anyone come up with a more fitting description of what is going on now?


Cartoon from 1934 Chicago Tribune

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[Pack66Dad]

Well I guess you forgot to mention that all that spending was necessitated by a republican caused depression. Also, the result of all that spending was a country that came out of a depression, 40 years of unprecedented economic growth and the emergence of a thriving middle class.

All that quickly turned around with Ronald F***ing Regan and his piss on our heads...errrr.... trickle down economics. And the cycle was completed by Bush and the republicans sending our jobs over seas and driving us into another depression.

So once again the "sick liberals" will have to regulate the greedy and lift up the working people of this country to get us back to prosperity.

I'm sure this won't make me popular with some on this board, I guess I'll be the "Sick Liberal" with a Sea Ray :thumbsup:

 

[Daddubo]

I think you might of forgotten that Carter had us in double digit interest rates, crashed the housing market and helped put the Ayatollah Khamenei in power after he helped force the Shaw of Iran out of power and basically put us in the position we are in today in the middle east. Regan got out of that mess yes by what he called trickle down economics but Obama has on the trickle up poverty route.

The democrats have had control of congress for the last 6 years about the time every thing was going in the tank. This whole mess was caused by the Banks being forced to loan money to people that couldn't pay it back and Nobama was part of that along with Barney Franks. Now nobama is going to make medical cost sky rocket unless you are on welfare or illegal he had GM and Chrysler close hundreds of dealers putting thousands out of work so the Halfrican is changing things for the worse. Just wait and see how much your taxes go up next year


The democrats have had control of congress for the last 6 years about the time every thing was going in the tank. This whole mess was caused by the Banks being forced to loan money to people that couldn't pay it back and Nobama was part of that along with Barney Franks with Fanny Mea and Freddy Mac. Now nobama is going to make medical cost sky rocket unless you are on welfare or illegal he had GM and Chrysler close hundreds of dealers putting thousands out of work so the Halfrican is changing things for the worse. Just wait and see how much your taxes go up next year

 

[Pack66Dad]

Guys, just for the record I'm a business owner, I'm a gun owner, I'm a devout christian, I love my country, I support the troops and I'm an unapologetic liberal.

There was a time when liberals & conservatives could discuss their views and still be friends afterward because we all shared a common bond.

If we can discuss our political views and still be friends, I welcome the debate. If its personal and ugly, I'll keep my political views to myself (on this site) and we can just talk about our boats.

Let me know, if this is a civil debate among friends I'm in.

 

[Daddubo]

Guys, just for the record I'm a business owner, I'm a gun owner, I'm a devout christian, I love my country, I support the troops and I'm an unapologetic liberal.

These are not liberal Idea's:

Liberals love to take money from people that work hard to make a living and give it to people that don't, they love over taxing, especially businesses, Liberals hate guns, Liberals are not devout any thing except Muslim or the only religion they put devout in front of, Liberals think This Country is the problem with the World even though we saved Europe twice (Europeans seem for get that over 400,000 GI’s died doing it) that is why Obama and Hilary went on their apology tour, Liberals hate our troops and the Military establishment because the Generals and most Officers are smarter than they are most have 1 or 2 Doctorates, My son is a Lt. Col and has a Masters in Aviation Engineering, but I don't think you are a Liberal I think you are more a Moderate. Oh yea Real Liberal’s don't own boats they drive Priuses to save the world they think and their women never put on make up.
I am sure your significant other does.

All is good no personal atacks here:thumbsup:

 

[Hornblower]

All that quickly turned around with Ronald F***ing Regan and his piss on our heads...errrr.... trickle down economics.

When's the last time you got a job from a poor person?
Let the wealthy and businesses (aka employers) keep more of what they earn and let them spend it. I know the government needs to buy $400 hammers and spend millions on studying how much cows fart, but they'll just have to learn to tighten their belts.

 

[Pack66Dad]

When's the last time you got a job from a poor person?
Let the wealthy and businesses (aka employers) keep more of what they earn and let them spend it. I know the government needs to buy $400 hammers and spend millions on studying how much cows fart, but they'll just have to learn to tighten their belts.

Sorry, that sounds wise but in practice it does not work (as we can see all around us). When taxes on upper incomes and businesses are raised those groups tend to invest money back into their business so they can reap the tax write-offs. With upper income tax rates so low now it encourages the climate of outsourcing that has all but destroyed our manufacturing capability, bloated our trade deficit, shifted tax burdens to the middle class and put millions out of work. In all actuality low taxes on the wealthy and businesses is a lose/lose proposition for our country, but they reap a windfall. I'm all for turning a profit but not at the expense of our countries future.

 

[comsnark]

The democrats have had control of congress for the last 6 years about the time every thing was going in the tank.

Technically, the Republicans had the house from 1995 to January 2007. So Democratic control of the Congress has been just under 4 years, not 6. It just seemed longer to you.

Two of those four years the Democratically lead congress was paired with a Republican President, just like it was during the Regan years.

The economy tanked in mid-2008; before the 2008 Presidential election.

 

[Pack66Dad]

The problem with liberals is that you want it both ways. When you buy something, you scrounge for the best possible price, yet you want your labor unions. We live in a world market, and nothing is sacred only to the US. Because of labor unions, we have priced ourselves out of competition. You want to buy a nice shirt for $15, but you want the worker to make $15 per hour. As a business, who markets shirts, (widjets, or whatever) Why in the hell would you want to keep the manufactering here instead of somewhere where the labor rates are not as high. Factor in the cost of Health Care plans, retirement benefits, etc. LABOR UNIONS are the reason we have lost jobs overseas, not Reagan/Bush/Cheney etc.

Interesting you should say that. I just read an article that debunks that notion, take a look: http://www.alternet.org/economy/148...d_--_and_why_america_is_going_down_the_drain/

 

[comsnark]

When taxes on upper incomes and businesses are raised those groups tend to invest money back into their business so they can reap the tax write-offs.

Do not disagree on *corperate taxes*, but for *individual* tax rates I don't see that happening. My understanding that small business owners tend to incorperate and invest their corperate money before drawing their salary, as opposed to drawing salary and investing their "own" money.

With upper income tax rates so low now it encourages the climate of outsourcing that has all but destroyed our manufacturing capability, bloated our trade deficit, shifted tax burdens to the middle class and put millions out of work.

I thought outsourcing was more a function of cheap non-union labor in other countries? (emphasis on cheap)

 

[comsnark]

Labor Unions are a problem for different reasons, but they are not THE reason jobs move overseas.

I work in a non-union profession (engineering). My industry is definately moving overseas. . .because if I work for $100K per year, someone in China a few years ago would do a similar job function for $10K per year.

But times are a changing. Engineering in China is going up in cost much more rapidly than in the U.S. Last year - I did not get an annual raise; but engineering costs in China are going up 10% per year. Now. . my company is looking to *even cheaper* labor markets for engineering.

Why do I still have a job? "Intellectual property" is a discussion for a different thread.

 

[Jack F]

Interesting you should say that. I just read an article that debunks that notion, take a look: http://www.alternet.org/economy/148...d_--_and_why_america_is_going_down_the_drain/

They must be waaaaay left if NPR calls them left-liberal.:grin:

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2001/jul/010702.karr.html

4) Alternet -- This independent, left-liberal news and opinion site has seen a six-fold increase in traffic since the end of 2000. Executive Editor Don Hazen says that's in part because the Bush administration has prompted readers to look for liberal news sources, in much the same way that conservative media blossomed after the election of Bill Clinton. The site is funded by a combination of individual support and foundation grants.

 

[Pack66Dad]

They must be waaaaay left if NPR calls them left-liberal.:grin:

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2001/jul/010702.karr.html

4) Alternet -- This independent, left-liberal news and opinion site has seen a six-fold increase in traffic since the end of 2000. Executive Editor Don Hazen says that's in part because the Bush administration has prompted readers to look for liberal news sources, in much the same way that conservative media blossomed after the election of Bill Clinton. The site is funded by a combination of individual support and foundation grants.

But isn't the truth still the truth, no matter where it comes from?
Even if Fox News said the sky was blue (and I looked outside to double check) I would have to admit they were telling the truth.

 

[mddickens]

Wow...I don't even know where to begin. I think it's safe to say that liberalism is all about being liberal with the other guy's money. It's assumed a priori that the well-off person got that way in some sort of unfair fashion and that to remedy this, we will give his money to someone else, and that will fix things. If the well-off person doesn't "get the message" and stop being well-off, liberals are all in favor of giving more of his money away until he's not well off any more.

I started and currently run three companies. One is very new so let's just say two companies. I took my personal fortune and invested in those companies...bought equipment and worked my ass off for six years to get those companies to a point where they are now returning a nice income. I was and am still the chief accountant, network administrator, programmer, webmaster, web marketer, laser technician, etc. etc. Along the way, I have employed a number of people resulting in their being able to support their families. It also happened that I could buy a nice boat, thereby providing employment to other people and their families. I have learned how to turn money into more money through prudent risk-taking and that has benefited many people way outside my family.

My income will fit comfortably into the "wealthy" category (as defined by our "Dear Leader Comrade Obama") this year. If my taxes go up next year, I will simply find more ways to do without hiring additional people to make up the shortfall. I would definitely NOT be taking risks outside of the "sure bet" because the payoff is lower. Bottom line: I decide what a fair return on my money and my sweat is...not the government and certainly not you, my liberal friend.

Fortunately, we are about to cut Obama's legislative nuts off (Lord knows he doesn't have any real ones) in about two weeks. I expect our newly elected representatives and senators to do the bidding of the electorate and start rolling back the disastrous legislation and policies of the last two years. We will be watching them closely.

 

[mddickens]

They must be waaaaay left if NPR calls them left-liberal.:grin:

http://www.npr.org/programs/atc/features/2001/jul/010702.karr.html

4) Alternet -- This independent, left-liberal news and opinion site has seen a six-fold increase in traffic since the end of 2000. Executive Editor Don Hazen says that's in part because the Bush administration has prompted readers to look for liberal news sources, in much the same way that conservative media blossomed after the election of Bill Clinton. The site is funded by a combination of individual support and foundation grants.

Nothing like a little "recent" news...This must be why Air America and Al Gore's TV network is doing so well :thumbsup:

 

[jason78]

The problem with liberals is that you want it both ways. When you buy something, you scrounge for the best possible price, yet you want your labor unions. We live in a world market, and nothing is sacred only to the US. Because of labor unions, we have priced ourselves out of competition. You want to buy a nice shirt for $15, but you want the worker to make $15 per hour. As a business, who markets shirts, (widjets, or whatever) Why in the hell would you want to keep the manufactering here instead of somewhere where the labor rates are not as high. Factor in the cost of Health Care plans, retirement benefits, etc. LABOR UNIONS are the reason we have lost jobs overseas, not Reagan/Bush/Cheney etc.

Don't even get me started on teachers and federal employees.......

Very well put Scott.

 

[Daddubo]

Count down to the largest tax hike in history, Hopfuly this will be turned back by a Democratic defeat in 2 weeks

http://www.atr.org/six-months-untilbr-largest-tax-hikes-a5171##ixzz0sY8waPq1

 

[comsnark]

But isn't the truth still the truth, no matter where it comes from?

No. The truth is whatever the speaker wants it to be, the moment it is spoken. This is universally true for both sides for the politcal spectrum.

I expect our newly elected representatives and senators to do the bidding of the electorate and start rolling back the disastrous legislation and policies of the last two years.

I expect the tea party folk to simply follow their own agenda. . .which may or may not be similar to what they represent in their election campaign. They will only pander to (not follow) the will of the electorate to the extent that they need to fro re-election.

Count down to the largest tax hike in history, Hopfuly this will be turned back by a Democratic defeat in 2 weeks

Note that this "tax hike" is the result of tax legislation passed by a Republican house and a Republican President in the early 2000's. A different Republican Congress and the same Republican President failed to change this legislation prior to election defeat in 2006.

How do you expect to change in this legislation with a Republican Congress and a Democratic President?

 

[Daddubo]

Note that this "tax hike" is the result of tax legislation passed by a Republican house and a Republican President in the early 2000's. A different Republican Congress and the same Republican President failed to change this legislation prior to election defeat in 2006.

I think you gave it wrong Bush didn’t do Obama care or raise capital gain’s or the death tax and the last two years that Bush was in the democrats had control of the house which over rode Bush veto’s.

How do you expect to change in this legislation with a Republican Congress and a Democratic President?[/quote]

The same way the democrats did it with a veto over riding majority and they know they need to get it right this time or they are dead and the remaining democrats that are left will be to scared to oppose them

 

[comsnark]

I think you gave it wrong Bush didn’t do Obama care or raise capital gain’s or the death tax and the last two years that Bush was in the democrats had control of the house which over rode Bush veto’s.

Very interesting.

The changes in the capital gains tax and estate tax rules were *very much* apart of the "Bush Tax Cuts". Expiration of the tax cuts was VERY MUCH a feature of this set of legislation.

Changes to these tax cuts were NOT passed by the Democrats between 2006 and 2008, and so there was neither a veto nor a veto over ride.

The original tax cut legislation (complete with sunset provisions) was set in 2001. The legislation was modified by the Republican controlled House in 2003. The expiration in the Capital gains tax rate was originally set for 2008 and was *postponed* to 1 Jan 2011 in 2006, by the Republican controlled Congress of that time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_and_Growth_Tax_Relief_Reconciliation_Act_of_2003
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States

You can find a list of Presidential vetos here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_vetoes

Not sure how Obamacare relates to this topic: I am sure we can chat for hours on that topic alone.

How do you expect to change in this legislation with a Republican Congress and a Democratic President?

The same way the democrats did it with a veto over riding majority and they know they need to get it right this time or they are dead and the remaining democrats that are left will be to scared to oppose them

You need a 2/3 majority in BOTH house and senate to over ride a Presidential veto. I don't think even the most optimistic partisan polls are predicting Republican gains of that magnitude. This is part of the reason the Democrats didn't repeal the Bush tax cuts in 2006-2008. They didn't have the votes for the inevitable over-ride.

Come on over: Let's open some beer! This political talk is making me thirsty!